Over AGE 60 PILOTS TO FLY IN UNITED STATES

[pilotyip]

undaunted, please this is a pilot board, it is no place for reality

 

[Lear70]

I'm not going into the math (because I am too lazy) but a year of Captain today traded for a year of Captain 20 years from now in NOT cost-neutral.

Yes, it is.

The concept is the "time-value of money". It is covered in every econ 101 course if you care to look at the math.

I'm well aware of the concept, as I said, I've testified in Federal Courts about pilot salaries and expected career income potential.

All other arguments not with standing SR 65 is not cost neutral for very many people; it is either HUGE windfall (current senior Captains),

When I said it was cost-neutral, I was referring to the first officers who will be delayed in upgrading. You're absolutely correct about the huge windfall to near-60 Captains.

a significant reduction of career earnings (really Junior FOs at stagnant companies) or something in between.

Incorrect. See post below.

If you like, I can forward a spreadsheet to you or post it on my website to download that details this. A 5 - 7 year delay in upgrade with a 10% B-fund or max 401k deduction and match (also assumed at 10%) with a modest 7% growth will cost a pilot around $250,000 to $300,000 over his entire career, depending on the salary base.

At just about every airline out there, that can be made up in 2-3 years at max CA pay, then they can retire cost-neutral OR continue to work for that extra $$$.

Read the above post, then PM me for the spreadsheet if you like.

Ignoring these economic realities is going to doom this and every other effort to defeat the age 60 rule. The lawmakers have little to gain by supporting a change, even less when the pilots are deeply divided in their feelings.

Instead of dissmissing the economic impact this WILL have on junior folks why not address it? Maybe then the lawmakers would see a (somewhat) unified pilot group requesting the change and have a reason to support something that the public doesn't care about, the FAA, most airlines and most unions wants to leave alone.

You might want to make CERTAIN you have the mathematical FACTS, IN WRITING, before you start such a campaign. Would hate to get egg on your face by raising a concerted effort based on erroneous information when we, as pilots, are supposed to double- and tripple-check every piece of data we use.

Not trying to flame you or piss you off, just trying to educate people.

 

[ivauir]

You can repost the same junk over and over again but you are failing to win over the junior guys.

Yelling louder isn't getting the job done. Try a different approach, or just keep failing. Junior folks have legitimate concerns; ignoring, trivializing, and even disputing those concerns won't make them go away or earn our support.

 

[vetrider]

You can repost the same junk over and over again but you are failing to win over the junior guys.

Yelling louder isn't getting the job done. Try a different approach, or just keep failing. Junior folks have legitimate concerns; ignoring, trivializing, and even disputing those concerns won't make them go away or earn our support.

Its just airline reality, its always about the senior guys. Always has been, always will be. Union heirarchy, same thing.

 

[pilotyip]

Yea if all the 121 union pilots want this age 60 retirement thing, then put it in your contract and leave the rest of the world alone.

 

[vetrider]

Yea if all the 121 union pilots want this age 60 retirement thing, then put it in your contract and leave the rest of the world alone.

Senior airline types alot of times also end up thinking they are the only ones in the world. You see, its not just us junior airline folks who are living in their world, but everyone else as well.

I've never been a senior airline type, but i've seen the phenomenon my entire life.

 

[3BCat]

Senior airline types alot of times also end up thinking they are the only ones in the world. You see, its not just us junior airline folks who are living in their world, but everyone else as well.

I've never been a senior airline type, but i've seen the phenomenon my entire life.

And in contrast, the FNG with the silver spoon in his mouth, a type rating, 6 months of PIC turbine, complaining that he should be at the majors by now. I have seen them, too. It's not pretty.

Allowing foreign operators to operate within our borders is certainly a double standard. What if it turns out you really do need to work past 60? Imagine an American citizen flying for Emirates. How will you feel when he is allowed to fly past 60, and you can't?? The rest of the world is changing. Not just the world of "senior pilots".


Do you want to retire on your terms, or on someone else's? If you can pass the PC, the Oral, the Recurrent, the Line Check, and the Physical requirements, I say you remain competent to work.

 

[pilotyip]

So how do I read this now it is not about safety, but about how much money someone will make?

 

[Flopgut]

Deleted. I really don't want to look at this thread anymore.

 

[vetrider]

And in contrast, the FNG with the silver spoon in his mouth, a type rating, 6 months of PIC turbine, complaining that he should be at the majors by now. I have seen them, too. It's not pretty.

Yep, your right, there is that too, no doubt about it.

 

[tracearabians]

Nice avatar !

I think in your case it is AARP, time to stay out in the pasture.

The 'Wall' will stand and stay at 60, for everyone's sake.

 

[Jim Smyth]

So how do I read this now it is not about safety, but about how much money someone will make?

This has always been about money! Since there was never any tests or medical research done prior to 1959 until present date just proves this.

Pilots will never change and this message board also proves that. Young Pilots never want the age to change because it delays there upgrade and potiential pay raise. Current Captains that have been through allot of the prior Airline BS want there turn at the top.

The airline managements are to be commended for dividing and conquering us.

 

[3BCat]

So how do I read this now it is not about safety, but about how much money someone will make?

Wake up!! This was never a rule based on safety. The Age 60 legislation has been defended behind the guise of safety. Do your homework.

The USA is going to allow over age 60 pilots to work, just not those of us who work for American held companies. Will you be harping about safety when you have to give it up, and the foreigners don't? No. By then you'll see it's not a safety issue.

Somebody wise once told me...Fly because you like to, if you are in it for the respect, prestige, recognition or money you may be disappointed.

 

[Occam's Razor]

This has always been about money! Since there was never any tests or medical research done prior to 1959 until present date just proves this.

Really? Somebody call Dr. Helmreich and Dr. Foushee...both of whom have been researching and reporting on the issue since 1966. Maybe NASA should try to get their grant money back!

Start here and do some of your own research. It's interesting!

http://www.risk-e.com/conference2006/helmreich

 

[ivauir]

Wakr Up!!! You'll never get this changed without the support of the junior guys. Come up with a compromise or live with the status quo.