Over AGE 60 PILOTS TO FLY IN UNITED STATES

[Flopgut]

That matters if that is what is important to you. But if you're interested in truth, justice, and the American Way,....well,...

And come on,....safety added as an after thought??!!

BS. The truth is no pilot working right now could reasonably expect to be working past 60 when they started. Most have benefitted from the rule and have advanced accordingly. If you are interested in truth, justice, etc. then you should muster some respect for the entire seniority process and hold better regard for what will happen to those to come after you. It is inadequate to simply rellagate them to working longer.

FYI: I´m flying right now with a guy 3 weeks from retirement right now. He´s a pretty good stick. But he is not handling this very well, hates the air I breath just for being younger, and is acting like a child.

 

[pilotyip]

flobgut, I planned on working way pass 60 when I was going to work for ACA in 1996, but the one rule for everyone of 1994, took that option away. So don't give me anyone flying today knew the rule.

 

[General Lee]

flobgut, I planned on working way pass 60 when I was going to work for ACA in 1996, but the one rule for everyone of 1994, took that option away. So don't give me anyone flying today knew the rule.

That is ridiculous. EVERYONE in this business has known about the age 60 rule for airline pilots. You may have flown the part 135 portion of ACA or some other airline, but you knew the part 121 rules. If you did not, you were not paying attention. Regardless, it is dangerous.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[scoreboard]

How about firemen and policemen? Is it unfair to make them retire too before that age? Do you want 64 year old cops running after gang members in NYC? That would be interesting. Bye Bye--General Lee

Nope, but the last time I saw a Captain run was down an isle to get a leftover copy of USA Today, hardly like chasing a crack addict mugger or carrying a passed out smoke inhalation victim down four flights of stairs.

 

[General Lee]

Nope, but the last time I saw a Captain run was down an isle to get a leftover copy of USA Today, hardly like chasing a crack addict mugger or carrying a passed out smoke inhalation victim down four flights of stairs.

So, you totally discount the fact of crossing ten thousand time zones over 30 years as creating dangerous fatigue? Of course you do. You must be new to SWA. Keep doing 6 legs a day for 20 more years, and I bet you will look great and feel great!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[pilotyip]

general lee under 30 seats was schdued 135 service until 1996, you could fly as long as passed a medical. It was changed to 121 and bumped all the over 60 guys out of the cockpit. The oldest 121 pilot retired in 2000 at age 69, grandfathered under the change to 121. If I could have flown beyond 60 at ACA I would taken the job. BTW the comment was everyone knew about this rule for 121, but they were flying 135 and it was forced upon thme because 121 pilots kept crashing.

 

[GCAP]

So, you totally discount the fact of crossing ten thousand time zones over 30 years as creating dangerous fatigue? Of course you do. You must be new to SWA. Keep doing 6 legs a day for 20 more years, and I bet you will look great and feel great!

Bye Bye--General Lee

I discount the time zones and any and all arguments you have. I've met you in ATL and I think I could outfly , outfight, out f----you any day and I'm almost 60!! All of your arguments are pure BS. You are one of the weakwilled sisters of ATL that vote in this POS because you don't have the intestinal fortitude to WALK THE WALK. You need a new hobby.

 

[General Lee]

general lee under 30 seats was schdued 135 service until 1996, you could fly as long as passed a medical. It was changed to 121 and bumped all the over 60 guys out of the cockpit. The oldest 121 pilot retired in 2000 at age 69, grandfathered under the change to 121. If I could have flown beyond 60 at ACA I would taken the job. BTW the comment was everyone knew about this rule for 121, but they were flying 135 and it was forced upon thme because 121 pilots kept crashing.

Yes, I know, I was at Midway Connection in the early 90's and we had some of those guys on our E120s and D228s. I know the rules, and we had some very old retired old pilot engineers (ROPES) flying the 727FE and L1011 FE after age 60 too until we got rid of them. Regardless, we all know the rules and have known them since we got hired. ALPA will fight that rule, and most ALPA members are younger. Heck, we just got rid of 2300 senior pilots here at DL, and that is 2300 fewer votes to try to increase the age limit.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I discount the time zones and any and all arguments you have. I've met you in ATL and I think I could outfly , outfight, out f----you any day and I'm almost 60!! All of your arguments are pure BS. You are one of the weakwilled sisters of ATL that vote in this POS because you don't have the intestinal fortitude to WALK THE WALK. You need a new hobby.

You met me? Really? I don't think so. Outfight me? Oh come on now, especially if you are near 60. No way. And, I will vote no, you can count on that. I also enjoy this board, and I will continue to give my opinions regardless of what an old fart like you says. Get some sleep.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Jim Smyth]

When rules that were put into place no longer apply to the current situation they are changed! Look at all the laywers there are in this country to make sure this continually happens. The rule that was put into place in 1959 no longer applies since people live much longer, are much healthier and have to work longer to get there retirement benefits respectively at 62,65 and 67. The age rule will change whether you like it or not, its just a matter of time. The more airlines that disolve there pension obligation will just strenten the pace at which it gets changed. IMO the younger Pilots would be better off to try to get a gradial phase in of age rather than taking an immediate 5 year hit!

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Yes, I know, I was at Midway Connection in the early 90's and we had some of those guys on our E120s and D228s. I know the rules, and we had some very old retired old pilot engineers (ROPES) flying the 727FE and L1011 FE after age 60 too until we got rid of them. Regardless, we all know the rules and have known them since we got hired. ALPA will fight that rule, and most ALPA members are younger. Heck, we just got rid of 2300 senior pilots here at DL, and that is 2300 fewer votes to try to increase the age limit.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I do not recall anyone at Midway Connection who was over 60 years of age.

 

[General Lee]

I do not recall anyone at Midway Connection who was over 60 years of age.

When I started there were a couple. One was in the training department.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[The Prussian]

Hmmmmm...I sense a lot of BS being slung around on this thread....(??!?)

 

[Flopgut]

flobgut, I planned on working way pass 60 when I was going to work for ACA in 1996, but the one rule for everyone of 1994, took that option away. So don't give me anyone flying today knew the rule.

Oh, yeah....let me clarify that. Pilots flying FAR 121. Good catch, I should have realized someone would make the stretch to project FAR 135 onto this. Gosh, I admire you. You may return the car key to your ear and continue drilling out wax.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

When I started there were a couple. One was in the training department.

Bye Bye--General Lee

None whoever flew the line were over 60. Check the seniority list.

 

[General Lee]

None whoever flew the line were over 60. Check the seniority list.

I am pretty sure they were over 60, but maybe they were just close. A captain of mine on the E120 told me that we had a couple, and I guess he got that wrong too. I was aware of the regs, so that is why I remember that. I never asked them, though. Crazy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

When rules that were put into place no longer apply to the current situation they are changed! Look at all the laywers there are in this country to make sure this continually happens. The rule that was put into place in 1959 no longer applies since people live much longer, are much healthier and have to work longer to get there retirement benefits respectively at 62,65 and 67. The age rule will change whether you like it or not, its just a matter of time. The more airlines that disolve there pension obligation will just strenten the pace at which it gets changed. IMO the younger Pilots would be better off to try to get a gradial phase in of age rather than taking an immediate 5 year hit!

If the rule of 59 is no longer appicable, then maybe seniority is no longer applicable? Because it has no less been a rule since 59. Even with the extraordinary staffing dynamic you've experienced at SWA, strict seniority has been the baseline. I'm glad to hear you conceed that this is an "immediate 5 year hit"; maybe we can continue to find middle ground.

Safety and seniority can be argued similiarly. To the extent one can argue that age does not affect safety, it can also be argued that the most senior is not always the safest. So if we profoundly overhaul this profession's seniority makeup, should we not overhaul the degree to which seniority prevails? Because as it is, seniority is everything, and this rule change simply gives it away with blatant disregard to effect. That blatant disregard for any effect is what makes this possible change a (at least partially) safety detriment. Maybe HR Diva would comment on abandoning seniority please?

You assert the career has changed and a retirement age increase will help all of us. We all live longer, are healthier, have lost pensions, and will have to wait longer for entitlement benefits etc. (your words) And you want to help the career out so lets follow through with it fully. Lets go with rostering and equipment assignments! That way when SWA starts flying international they can hire some captains with that sort of experience and staff them above you. They can be paid more than you, get better vacations than you, have more of the holidays off than you get, and enjoy more time with their families than you.

How does that sound? Sounds like crap to me and I would hate to see you force fed a poop sandwich like that. But hey, thats what the age change does to someone junior to you, and your comfortable with that. Wouldn't the easy answer be to keep age 60?

 

[Jim Smyth]

Wouldn't the easy answer be to keep age 60?

Keep living in denial. Change is coming and you will either help to form its new rules or you will be forced to live under someones elses rules, your choice. Starting in November you will have foriegn Pilots flying into US airspace that are over 60 years old. The US Pilots wont be far behind. Nothings perect in life now or in 1959 either. I have never heard anyone have a good idea on its transformation, but a gradial phase in would be a good start so nobody takes a big hit. YMMV

 

[General Lee]

Keep living in denial. Change is coming and you will either help to form its new rules or you will be forced to live under someones elses rules, your choice. Starting in November you will have foriegn Pilots flying into US airspace that are over 60 years old. The US Pilots wont be far behind. Nothings perect in life now or in 1959 either. I have never heard anyone have a good idea on its transformation, but a gradial phase in would be a good start so nobody takes a big hit. YMMV

Now that the ATC guys got a waiver to age 60, do you think they should go to 65 also? All we need are age 65 pilots and controllers asking eachother "What was that? Say again?" I think the move to age 60 for controllers will influence the age to stay at 60 for pilots.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Jim Smyth]

Now that the ATC guys got a waiver to age 60, do you think they should go to 65 also? All we need are age 65 pilots and controllers asking eachother "What was that? Say again?" I think the move to age 60 for controllers will influence the age to stay at 60 for pilots.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Wow, they got a wavier ah? So I guess there is the possibility that we may also get a wavier Huh? Its called changing the rules to meet the needs of the current situation. It happens all the time and will also happen for Pilots. If it isnt this year it will be brought up again next year and then the year after that.

So you flew Dorks for the Midway connection? I was at the Midway main line. Did you flow through to the Mainline or werent you there long enough, just curious.