Over AGE 60 PILOTS TO FLY IN UNITED STATES

[CaptainMark]

hey...noone answered my question...i know there are not a lot of airlines out there with b-funds..but in my understanding they were set up for the age 60 retirement...if the rule changes any brainiacs know what might happen to it..it is the best thing out there..i wish our union would opt to get rid of the a-plan and increase the b-fund because holding on to the a-plan will be a constant fight contract after contract...

 

[Flopgut]

hey...noone answered my question...i know there are not a lot of airlines out there with b-funds..but in my understanding they were set up for the age 60 retirement...if the rule changes any brainiacs know what might happen to it..it is the best thing out there..i wish our union would opt to get rid of the a-plan and increase the b-fund because holding on to the a-plan will be a constant fight contract after contract...

Your B fund is fine Mark. Its so far off for you the only problem you will have is not forgetting to spend it! B fund is better than an A plan, unless the A plan remains fully finded, then the A plan is better.

Don't you have a full time employee to handle this for you? With the amount of money you make I'm surprised you don't have someone on the payroll just to post on here for you!:laugh:

 

[Bringupthebird]

If Congress changes this against the FAA's will, the FAA is going to react in a non-discriminatory way against all commerical pilots.

How about only those pilots choosing to hold 1st Class Medicals.

And LTD rates are going to soar from the $100 per month today to three or four times that figure. Your paycheck is going to be further reduced.

Did you do the voice over for Chicken Little? You should have.

LTD companies are also going to write new fine print that will be required for enrollment by all that will establish all kinds of new requirements. Fat boy programs will be established. Pilots will be worried about their body mass index, running, eating right all the time, hoping their vision is stable for the next twenty years, keeping their cholestrol below 150 without meds, etc. or losing the LTD protection.

So which is it? Will the LTD boogeymen raise everyone's rates to accomodate the Floppy Guts and Big Beer Bellies among us, or will companies be encouraged to implement wellness programs that allow their valued employees to continue working? Again, why should healthy, qualified pilots be fired on their 60th birthday to accomodate someone else's lifestyle?

So get ready for the rubber glove and bend over because these old farts are going to have all of us in a world of hurt in another year if they get their way.

Maybe higher medical standard will send a message to airline management that perhaps everyone who can muster a fake Texas accent on the radio and pass a perfunctory checkride isn't suited to this job. Maybe then the pool of potential pilots will shrink, supply and demand can do it's job and the value of a pilot will return as reflected in the paycheck.

 

[Flopgut]

RE LTD: The next thing we can look for from APAAD will be an effort to change FAE computations to allow for them to go on LTD and not have it effect retirement. There are a lot of dollars there and they are going to want to help themselves to it. A legion of them will go on LTD, those of us still working will pay exponentially higher premiums. The Captains that can still work won't really care about their contempories on the dole because, hey, they're Captains! This generation of senior pilots will close the door on the whole thing if they can. They don't want money from CBAs, they want it out of the hides of the junior pilots, and there sure are a lot of people more than happy to help them to it!

Watch out for proposed legislation amending FAE computations to allow senior pilots 3-5 of full LTD benefits with no affect on A plan. It is probably already underway!

 

[Flopgut]

So which is it? Will the LTD boogeymen raise everyone's rates to accomodate the Floppy Guts and Big Beer Bellies among us, or will companies be encouraged to implement wellness programs that allow their valued employees to continue working? Again, why should healthy, qualified pilots be fired on their 60th birthday to accomodate someone else's lifestyle?



Maybe higher medical standard will send a message to airline management that perhaps everyone who can muster a fake Texas accent on the radio and pass a perfunctory checkride isn't suited to this job. Maybe then the pool of potential pilots will shrink, supply and demand can do it's job and the value of a pilot will return as reflected in the paycheck.

I carry a little weight right now and thats why I call myself Flopgut. But it is "tongue in cheek". I'm actually in pretty good shape. I used to be in awesome shape, probably just as good as Lear70. However, I had a seriously intrusive major surgery to correct a sports injury and it has really messed me up. My point: that can happen to anyone, even you. LTD was a hard won benefit for this profession to take care of us all. Not necessarily for things we could think of like lack of good diet, exercise etc. But for things we could not think of. Its not there for some flake like you to flip into better pay for yourself. Its there to take care of families and dependents that count on the affected pilot. Not allow some 60+ bozo to keep buying new cars during a period of opportuned LTD.

I think we have a lot bigger problem in pilots like you than one might see at first. This goes past simply working to 65 for you doesn't it? Your going to want to grow this adminisrtative attack on your coworkers aren't you? You see a chance for personal gain. Not in a straight up way, but in a more perverse and insidious manner. I bet the pilots that helped you somewhere in your past are regretting it right now.

 

[FoxHunter]

hey...noone answered my question...i know there are not a lot of airlines out there with b-funds..but in my understanding they were set up for the age 60 retirement...if the rule changes any brainiacs know what might happen to it..it is the best thing out there..i wish our union would opt to get rid of the a-plan and increase the b-fund because holding on to the a-plan will be a constant fight contract after contract...

I would hope you are not serious. Last year I hit the max allowed by the IRS for the defined contributions, which was $42,000 not including the catch up provisions. Yes, some of that money was mine both pretax and aftertax but most wide body Captains at FedEx are close to the limit unless they just don't contribute. The A plan is a huge benefit that can pay as much as $130,000 a year. The downside is that the company has to stay healthy for it all to work. UAL and USAir have proved it is not worth the paper is is printed on when you go Ch11.

 

[FoxHunter]

If Congress changes this against the FAA's will, the FAA is going to react in a non-discriminatory way against all commerical pilots.

Astronauts are going to be glad they are not commerical pilots after they see the new medical standards published.

And LTD rates are going to soar from the $100 per month today to three or four times that figure. Your paycheck is going to be further reduced.

LTD companies are also going to write new fine print that will be required for enrollment by all that will establish all kinds of new requirements. Fat boy programs will be established. Pilots will be worried about their body mass index, running, eating right all the time, hoping their vision is stable for the next twenty years, keeping their cholestrol below 150 without meds, etc. or losing the LTD protection.

And do you think Congress is going to stop any of this? Not on your life.

So get ready for the rubber glove and bend over because these old farts are going to have all of us in a world of hurt in another year if they get their way.

I just wonder how you are so sure the medical standards are going to change? I have been told that in the event the age limit does go to age 65 the FAA sees no need to change the present standards. I think you will find that most pilots are not grounded during a FAA physical, but because of an occurance after the medical was issued such as cancer, heart problem.

 

[matt1.1]

Distortion of the facts

RE LTD: The next thing we can look for from APAAD will be an effort to change FAE computations to allow for them to go on LTD and not have it effect retirement. There are a lot of dollars there and they are going to want to help themselves to it.

And they will. Just as they are moving this mountain that has stood since 1959.

A legion of them will go on LTD, those of us still working will pay exponentially higher premiums.

Right on!

The Captains that can still work won't really care about their contempories on the dole because, hey, they're Captains!

Not when the monthly premiums are $400 or more that is currently charged by ALPA for LTD coverage if not employeed by a contract covered carrier.

Watch out for proposed legislation amending FAE computations to allow senior pilots 3-5 of full LTD benefits with no affect on A plan. It is probably already underway!

I am sure it is already being plotted.

The only way to ensure stopping it is by keeping the age 60 as it stands.

And as far as my agenda goes, keeping age 60 is the only reason I am interested in this discussion. As far as what I will benefit from keeping age 60, moving up the list just as you did in your career. 55+ year old pilots got a chance to move up the list because of the current rule, why wouldn't I want that same chance? Pretty simple agenda that is straight forward and truthful with nothing to hid.

 

[matt1.1]

Medicals are going to be harder to pass

I just wonder how you are so sure the medical standards are going to change? .

The FAA is against the age change that is why the issue has been politicised and is being discussed in Congress. The FAA will react to a change forced upon them and increase the drag net to remove the medically unfit pilots they are currently avoiding over age 60. The FAA will adopt foreign medical standards. And have you known anyone go through a Japanese physical? I have and have heard the stories of what is checked and researched and it is much more extensive than the current US class 1 physical.

I have been told that in the event the age limit does go to age 65 the FAA sees no need to change the present standards.

Unlikely. Do you believe politicians?

I think you will find that most pilots are not grounded during a FAA physical, but because of an occurance after the medical was issued such as cancer, heart problem.

I would agree. But when the physical stardards are increased looking for new items or strict standards, busting a routine physical will be common.

Also, the new physicals as they do in Japan create a baseline against the standards and then track your particular results over each subsequent physical to look for patterns of failure and make predictions based on those trends which generate more testing.

More testing is going to be a part of this age change one way or another. Either the FAA is going to do it or the LTD companies are or both.

 

[TAZ MAN]

More testing is going to be a part of this age change one way or another. Either the FAA is going to do it or the LTD companies are or both.

If this was true, why hasn't the FAA changed the standards for all the part 91 and 135 pilots that are required to have a class 1 that are over 60 YOA?

You provide a wide range of change. You seem 100% convinced that it will happen if the rule is changed.

Has your greed made you paranoid? Don't worry...everything will be alright.

 

[matt1.1]

What is your point?

135 pilots flying aircraft over 7500lbs payload, scheduled service, international etc. as outlined in 61.3 are already prohibited from flying over age 60.

Part 91 pilots have the privilege to fly over 60 currently and those wanting to keep flying should leave the 135/121 ops and go fly 91. Whats your point?

I am not parnoid just defending the current age 60 standards.

 

[Purple Promisee]

The Supreme Court disagrees with you. They ruled against a group of Southwest pilots who wanted the rules changed. They stated that they would have to change the rules for more groups, like firemen and policemen. I don't want a 62 year old fireman carrying me out of a burning house. Nope.


Apples & Oranges. The battle to overturn the existing rule has been fought and lost in the courts (the FAA was properly empowered with an "articulable guiding principle," it didn't act capriciously, challenges must be based on record of original hearings, yadda yadda yadda); The issue now is the legislature making a new rule. Congress can make a rule just for pilots, or ditch diggers for that matter, because "occupation" is not a protected class, but not, for instance for "black pilots" because race is a protected class.

 

[TAZ MAN]

135 pilots flying aircraft over 7500lbs payload, scheduled service, international etc. as outlined in 61.3 are already prohibited from flying over age 60.

Part 91 pilots have the privilege to fly over 60 currently and those wanting to keep flying should leave the 135/121 ops and go fly 91. Whats your point?

I am not parnoid just defending the current age 60 standards.

I think I made my point.

How old are you Matt?? Just curious.

One more thing...do you think it takes more skill to fly 767 vs. an RJ?

 

[Bringupthebird]

My point: that can happen to anyone, even you. LTD was a hard won benefit for this profession to take care of us all. Not necessarily for things we could think of like lack of good diet, exercise etc. But for things we could not think of. Its not there for some flake like you to flip into better pay for yourself. Its there to take care of families and dependents that count on the affected pilot. Not allow some 60+ bozo to keep buying new cars during a period of opportuned LTD.

This whole LTD fear mongering is a non-starter. The insurance companies can adjust their rates without our approval. I've never been on LTD, nor do I ever hope to be. The folks I know who have claim it's a major PITA. No one would willingly put themselves through that hassle, and they shouldn't have to. You see floppy, we want to make money the old fashioned way : We EARN it. By continuing to work as long as we are medically and psychologically able.

I think we have a lot bigger problem in pilots like you than one might see at first. This goes past simply working to 65 for you doesn't it? Your going to want to grow this adminisrtative attack on your coworkers aren't you? You see a chance for personal gain. Not in a straight up way, but in a more perverse and insidious manner. I bet the pilots that helped you somewhere in your past are regretting it right now

Look out the window. See that black helicopter out there? See me waving from it? Geesh!

I owe a great debt of gratitude for the old timers who helped me along the way all of whom wish that the Age 60 rule would change. I hope that I can repay them through my efforts. It meant a delayed upgrade when I started in on this fight 9 years ago, and now it may mean slower progression to a line and bigger aircraft, but that's a small price to pay to see justice done.

 

[matt1.1]

answers

I think I made my point.

How old are you Matt?? Just curious.

One more thing...do you think it takes more skill to fly 767 vs. an RJ?

49 and a 76

but I still dont get your point. 91 and certain 135 can flys past 60 and that fine. Big 135 and 121 can not and it not ok to start allowing it.