Organization Of Black Airline Pilots

[jke406]

All of the above will provide the same info the OBAP guys had. Where do you think they got the idea from?

I don't think that is the point. The point is, the company sanctioned cheating in order to give one group an advantage over another.

Otherwise, everyone would have received such a packet.

I think it's hard to argue with that.

 

[Reebo]

I don't think that is the point. The point is, the company sanctioned cheating in order to give one group an advantage over another.

Otherwise, everyone would have received such a packet.

I think it's hard to argue with that.

True. If US Air was giving "gouge" packets to OBAP members and no one else then that is wrong.

 

[737 Pylt]

I don't see the point in doing that, but if it was done, it would be considered racist.....Picking people because of race is wrong......be it white, black, brown, or yellow....

Holy crap, I can't believe this. I agree totally with JoeMerchant!

737

 

[Redtailer]

I remember hearing about folks getting gouges at US. I can't say that it was an "official" OBAP handout like some folks on here want to make out, but there is something to be said for networking. Ever heard of aviationinterviews.com?

I do know a group of OBAP members got together and started compiling reports from previous pilots who interviewed. It wasn't just for US, but every carrier at the time. With so many documented experiences it is pretty easy to build a gouge. That's what happens when people work together and support the network. I submitted some reports myself on a questionaire.


It's amazing that this organization get so much flak because it promotes and supports minorities. I will bet on any day of the week the percentage of non-blacks that are members of OBAP are higher than the percentage of blacks in any other aviation organization.


OBAP is no different than any other special interest organization. To call it discriminatory or racist is just plain wrong. Corporate america and government not only agrees with this view, but encourages such organizations. Ever heard of the National Association for Female Executives (www.nafe.com)? There are countless religious orgs. Age discrimination orgs. Even fat people have their own groups. And that's all along side of the hundreds of other orgs. that cater to every race on the planet. But somehow OBAP is singled out to be evil and unfair.

As I said before, OBAP will be around until the day comes that black pilots and aspiring pilots have all of the SAME educational and networking opportunities that most non-black pilots have.

Just for the record, I have seen WHITE male and female members receive OBAP scholarships and services. So how is that racist?

 

[FreightGod]

Originally Posted by PCL_128
This thread is just sad. The guy was just looking for someone to go into an inner city school to talk to impoverished black kids about becoming a pilot. Oh, the horrors.
For a smart guy, you can be pretty dumb sometimes.

PCL_128 comes across as pretty dumb many-a-times, he just don't know it, which is even worse.

 

[FreightGod]

I will bet on any day of the week the percentage of non-blacks that are members of OBAP are higher than the percentage of blacks in any other aviation organization.

What is a non-black...? White, Yellow, Brown, Pink..?

Guess I am ignorant here: A white guy would join the OBAC for what reason? To get a better score at the interview?
Or a latino would benefit from the minority status of being a member?

Being a true Norwegian-American I should really cash in on this minority deal as I am less than 0.001% of the pilots force. Can't do however, NA does not qualify as much as an AA.
Just like the Irish slaves of the past, the starving Norwegian immigrants working the fields gets no credit.

All that aside: It is a bit unfair for Mr. Black pilot to get hired with minimum hours due to skin-color, then having to take the course over again to get a passing grade.
When I had 300 or 500 hours way back when, I was not ready for a fast jet or a fancy class cockpit.
If I was pulled into Eagle or United at the time I would probably need extra lessons, then the boot if I did not perform.
No mercy....

Therefore it is unfair to compare yer low-time black/female class mate to yer high-time self just because they got an earlier break.

I had 5200 hours TT before I saw the inside of a jet back in 1988. (Slow learner perhaps)
If a black classmate got the same job with 2000 hours Cessna time and busted the DC-8 course, I would not hold it against him, and it would be unfair comparison.

Forget colors, do like the Army: Be all ya can be....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez... push yourself back from the buffet table amigo!

BBB

But the bannana pudding with the vanilla wafers is soooooo good.

How is anyone harmed by OBAP? Are white guys harmed?


Take a white kid... less than 10 years of age... dreams of being a pilot... just like his dad.... he can't wait to turn 15 to take flying lessons. family is well off financially...

dad dies. Income is cut by over 50%. Life insurance kicks in but that goes for everyday living, college funds and retirement.


Now, no money for flying lessons, single mom & kids have to move to lower middle class home. Life is tough.

Kid is angry. Doesn't do well in school, but wants to fly and knows his bad grades will hurt his chances. He is a downward spiral. Temptation to hang with the wrong crowd is there...

Mom would love for him to be a pilot, but really just wants the kid to make it....




Any one care about this white kid? Should he get a push? Maybe a scholarship? maybe a free Air Inc package? maybe a free discovery flight. Maybe a mentor. maybe someone to belive in him.. anyone...???



Oh yeah.... ****** him... cause race is colorblind and you got yours..... he just needs to pull himself up... and its all his fault cause his dad died... and its his dad fault for not making more money and buying more insurance....

Yeah... ******* em all cause you got yours....

MOD INPUT, REZ consider yourself warned about masking the language

 

[Redtailer]

FreightGod,

I at no time referred to blacks getting hired on at lower time than any other pilot. I was referring to OBAP in general.

As to the hiring aspect that you railed on have you ever ASKED your airline HR how the hiring of minorities are handled? I don't mean rumor, speculation, or heresay from a friend who interviewed. I mean actually asking the HR folks conducting the interviews.

Different airlines have different policies and handle minorities differently. I have had the opportunity to talk to several HR folks for both Major and Regional airlines and ask them how they do it.

You would be surprised how many don't have any policies at all. Others realize that they are woefully lacking any type of diversity for many reasons and they want to add more minorities. Contrary to what many on here may think the airlines of today are not victims of affirmative action. Instead, managements realized long ago that having diversity in an organization is an asset.

In general when the airlines want pilots from a certain group (More than just race or gender, but may be from a certain institution) they will break the potential candidates in to stacks. You usually have a stack for pilots with recommendations, one for non-recs., one for non-competitve/qualified, and then the segregated stacks. The segregated stacks are usually divided according to specific groups. I have not heard of a specific "Black" stack from anyone. What they do have are stacks for OBAP, WIA, Air Inc., and various Universities such as UND.

When they want to hire a group of pilots they pull certain percentages from each stack for an interview. The pilot will only be competing with the other pilots in their particular stack. IOW, an OBAP member would not even be in competition with a non-OBAP member. That doesn't mean he just gets the job, but his competive times are dependent on the other applicants. The person must still pass the interview and all of the tests just like anyone else. Same goes for training. No free ride. I've seen black and white folks male and female pilots fired from airlines for non-performance.
To generalize that blacks get it easier in training is a farce. If anything, the white males have it easier than anyone else. I have witnessed how all of the females are treated in training. In most regionals and corporate training they have to be really good because there are a lot of instructors that expect them to fail walking in the door. Many times it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Men and women in general learn differently and at times requires different teaching techniques.

Unfortunately, this thread proves why blacks have it tough in training because many people believe their job was handed to them and they are a lot less experienced. Every flight you have to prove yourself all over again and don't make any mistakes. If you are not black you would probably disagree with that last statement, but ask any black pilot out there. You will overwhelmingly get the same answer.

You may not like the system, but in its essence it has nothing to do with race. Instead it has to do with what organization you belong to and all of the above organizations do not discriminate who their members are.

 

[Redtailer]

Any one care about this white kid? Should he get a push? Maybe a scholarship? maybe a free Air Inc package? maybe a free discovery flight. Maybe a mentor. maybe someone to belive in him.. anyone...???



Oh yeah.... phcuk him... cause race is colorblind and you got yours..... he just needs to pull himself up... and its all his fault cause his dad died... and its his dad fault for not making more money and buying more insurance....

Yeah... phcuk em all cause you got yours....

Tell him join OBAP or WIA or AIR Inc. or AOPA or FAA.. Many others did.. They don't discriminate who their members are.

 

[bleagle]

Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord, why dont we?
We all know that people are the same where ever we go
There is good and bad in evryone,
We learn to live, we learn to give
Each other what we need to survive together alive.

Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord why dont we?

Ebony, ivory living in perfect harmony
Ebony, ivory, ooh

We all know that people are the same where ever we go
There is good and bad in evryone,
We learn to live, we learn to give
Each other what we need to survive together alive.

Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord why dont we?

Ebony, ivory living in perfect harmony (repeat and fade)

 

[bleagle]

Just a few observations...

The worlds BEST golfer is black...
There may be a black president soon...
The heavyweight boxing champion is white...
as a matter of fact the heavyweight division of boxing is dominated by white athletes....

A movie called..."STEP UP 2 the streets" depicts
White kids dancing like black kids...

white rappers...white r&b singers....

Point is .... the next generation may be what is necessary to change this archaic way of thinking as represented on this thread...

It should be about the kids NOT this back and forth bickering about color, nepotism, advantages, etc....

I have worked at three airlines and I can tell you that favoritism, advantages, preferential hiring is NOT limited to minorities, and women.

Like Chris Rock said to a white audience.... "It is good to be a white man in America...non of you motha *************************ers would trade places with me and I AM RICH!

Again, change would be nice... being a mentor for at least ONE DAY would be nice!

If someone offered you an advantage...would you take it? And if you did, shouldn't you PAY IT FORWARD?

Mayber if there were more positive mentors in DTW and MEM...maybe crime wouldn't be as bad as it is now....just hope you guys don't leave the hotel on those MEM overnights...

 

[AV80R]

OCRAP is the subconscious nagging that CRAPs (cons repub airline pilots) get when they vote for pro company anti pilot candidates.....

Not sure if you'll get jobs via OCRAP.... more like furloughs, paycuts, lost pensions and unreturned phone calls..... all while the Elitist are laughing all the way to bank! They take you money and your votes!

Yeah, at least with ALPA everyone gets furlough protection, pay raises, better pensions, and the phones are never busy, right?! All while the Elitist alpos are donating the money to the liberal causes.

That’s right, ALPA - the great savior to all pilots. Pilots of the World Unite! Yeah right! :laugh:

No beef in the fight but in a sense I don’t blame the USAirways’ pilots for trying a de-Bathification, sorry I meant de-ALPAzation of their portion of the airline.

 

[Jurasicpilot]

J

Point is .... the next generation may be what is necessary to change this archaic way of thinking as represented on this thread...

It should be about the kids NOT this back and forth bickering about color, nepotism, advantages, etc....

Negative,

It will keep going on and on and on until something explodes. Kids aren't dumb. Mine have already asked why there is a black history month, why are there academic societies based on race or culture at school etc etc. Is every other month white history month? Try answering those...

Or how-a-bout explaining the election. When they are talking about the black vote, latino vote, white evangelical vote.

We promote this crap. Until we address history as history and reward and acknowledge people for what the have accomplished and not what they are, racism will be alive and well.



Bleagle its a novel idea, but I don't see it changing when we are defining people more and more by race.

 

[donvag]

According to many of your logics I would be a perfect candidate for an airline. Latino, 3500+TT, ATP and turbine PIC time and a member of OBAP. I have applied for all major airlines hiring except United and I have not received a call from ANY OF THEM. I call the bul$hit card on "minorities can get a job just for being black/latino/female." Everyone has to work as hard.

 

[NGT]

My child's Teacher is interested in having a Pilot present to a 2nd grade class during Black History Month. Our shhool is located in the northeast suburbs of Detroit. If anyone has any availability, please PM me and we can share details.

Thanks

Unless I missed some major legislation changes, children of all races, gender, and religious beliefs are enrolled in this school. And this organization allows all members. Isn't this just Adults guiding Children to the profession they love and everything else just worthless personal opinions. Even if only one child is ever helped by this effort, than it was a complete success. Regardless of the month, organization, and school this is nothing more that people donating their time in an attempt to help children. I attended a privelleged public school and nobody ever came there to let me know what was REALY involved in becoming a pilot and the life I would have in it's pursuit. If they had I would probably have become a rich executive with my own jet!

 

[get2flyin]

The title of this thread implies that one specific demographic of pilot is preferred for this requirement.

Isn't that racism?

I spoke to a class of 4th graders from my hometown a few years back. On of the girls said she wanted to be a pilot but a boy in the class told her she couldn't and could only be a flight attendant. I told the young boy he was wrong and told them about flying with female captains. Later I sent them a few pictures of female captains sitting in the left seat. According to the teacher, it was very empowering to the girls in the class. Further more, I think it sent a positive message to the boys in the class about the falsities of gender stereotypes. Imagine what it would have been like for them if a female pilot came in...

On a similar note, having some old white guy walk into a class of young black students and tell them they can be whatever they want might sound a little suspect. How could somebody who would be perceived as being from the "suburbs" expect to have any credibility with the kids? I think the idea is having somebody who the kids could identify with be the one to deliver words of encouragement.

Maybe that's why the thought of having a black president is so interesting. It completely shatters the idea of a glass ceiling existing for different ethnicities.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah, at least with ALPA everyone gets furlough protection, pay raises, better pensions, and the phones are never busy, right?! All while the Elitist alpos are donating the money to the liberal causes.

That’s right, ALPA - the great savior to all pilots. Pilots of the World Unite! Yeah right! :laugh:

No beef in the fight but in a sense I don’t blame the USAirways’ pilots for trying a de-Bathification, sorry I meant de-ALPAzation of their portion of the airline.

Not sure where you got your romance of ALPA or the idea that ALPA is all things wonderful....

As I said on the USAPA thread... ALPA is like our dysfunctional alcoholic mother...

She may not be the best, and may not do best for all the kids.... but she is still our mom....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Still waiting for someone to tell us how they've been harmed by OBAP..... how the group is harmful...

 

[AV80R]

Not sure where you got your romance of ALPA or the idea that ALPA is all things wonderful....

As I said on the USAPA thread... ALPA is like our dysfunctional alcoholic mother...

She may not be the best, and may not do best for all the kids.... but she is still our mom...


I'm not anti union, far from it - however Alpa will never be my "mom." Moms are supposed to protect their own - ask any TWA'er how Alpo sold out their own...

If Alpa is supposed to be "our mom" I'd rather stay in foster care...

 

[airborn]

I spoke to a class of 4th graders from my hometown a few years back. On of the girls said she wanted to be a pilot but a boy in the class told her she couldn't and could only be a flight attendant. I told the young boy he was wrong and told them about flying with female captains. Later I sent them a few pictures of female captains sitting in the left seat. According to the teacher, it was very empowering to the girls in the class. Further more, I think it sent a positive message to the boys in the class about the falsities of gender stereotypes. Imagine what it would have been like for them if a female pilot came in...

On a similar note, having some old white guy walk into a class of young black students and tell them they can be whatever they want might sound a little suspect. How could somebody who would be perceived as being from the "suburbs" expect to have any credibility with the kids? I think the idea is having somebody who the kids could identify with be the one to deliver words of encouragement.

Maybe that's why the thought of having a black president is so interesting. It completely shatters the idea of a glass ceiling existing for different ethnicities.

Great post amongst all of this bile.