NY Times reports Pardus/Bethune think NWA too messy

[pipe]

But, Pardus is advocating not going the NWA route as it would involve closing CVG and MEM. They think this would somehow present regulation and union problems. How is the closing or SLC and CVG any different?

imp:​

ARE WE ALL REALLY THIS GULLIBLE???????

If they need to lie to Congress, DOJ, W, the unions, the shareholders, or their grandmothers to get approval - they will! Then they'll just dump whatever they want due to "the unforeseen economic realities" that they will cite six months after the approval.

Morality and long-term strategic management are not in play here. Short term "shareholder" (read management) value are the ONLY considerations.

PIPE

 

[General Lee]

ARE WE ALL REALLY THIS GULLIBLE???????

If they need to lie to Congress, DOJ, W, the unions, the shareholders, or their grandmothers to get approval - they will! Then they'll just dump whatever they want due to "the unforeseen economic realities" that they will cite six months after the approval.

Morality and long-term strategic management are not in play here. Short term "shareholder" (read management) value are the ONLY considerations.

PIPE

That's why you put it in writing first, and Lee Moak will make sure of that. Unless you go back to BK court, you can't change it. That is why we have to threaten a strike, which is allowed in our contract.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ualdriver]

Sure are a lot of "Experts" around here!

I was thinking the same thing, on both this thread and another thread or two that I was skimming. They already have UA pieced off and "feel sorry" for the UA employees. I'll make sure I turn off the lights when I get off my next trip.......

It's funny, in an aviation forum kind of way, where everyone has been bashing Tilton for the past several months (at least!) as someone who was very merger "pro-active," but Delta suddenly comes to the realization that maybe a merger may not be such a bad idea and everyone's all worked up to a lather- even the press.

 

[General Lee]

I was thinking the same thing, on both this thread and another thread or two that I was skimming. They already have UA pieced off and "feel sorry" for the UA employees. I'll make sure I turn off the lights when I get off my next trip.......

It's funny, in an aviation forum kind of way, where everyone has been bashing Tilton for the past several months (at least!) as someone who was very merger "pro-active," but Delta suddenly comes to the realization that maybe a merger may not be such a bad idea and everyone's all worked up to a lather- even the press.

Tilton wants out of this business, and back into the oil business where he could have made MORE money. He can't lead a group out of a paper bag. Delta on the otherhand, seems to have their "poop" together, and has a plan, but wants to solidify it with a full revenue stream---and have global domination from the US. I thought I saw United look initially for anyone interested in dancing with them, and there were no takers. Now, Delta is looking to find the best partner before anyone else starts asking around, and I think they have included United so they can get Bafoon and his rich friends at Pardus to get off their butt. Why would anyone want to absorb even more debt and risk plenty of overlap? I think it is funny Bafoon doesn't mention any of the obvious UA/DL overlap. The big losers at CVG and MEM are the regionals, not mainline. DL has 56 daily mainline flights at CVG, and NWA has about 40 at MEM. Not a huge hit at all compared to SLC and DEN, or ORD and CVG, or IAD and JFK, or the combined LAX base that both have redundant flights. (Hawaii, NY, BOS, MCO, etc...)

Remember, this is a forum for opinions, and everyone is allowed to have one. If you don't want to add your two cents, then don't ridicule people who do. If you want to read just articles and no opinions, look at Yahoo finance.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[pipe]

That's why you put it in writing first, and Lee Moak will make sure of that. Unless you go back to BK court, you can't change it. That is why we have to threaten a strike, which is allowed in our contract.


Bye Bye--General Lee

There are a couple of other minor details that have to be met before you can strike. I'm glad it's in your contract - it's in everyone else's contract too.

It would appear, however, that the NMB ain't real quick to release people to self-help.

Enjoy the Kool-Aid. I hope it makes you feel better. Please name for me the last pilot group that thought they did well in a merger.

PIPE

 

[ualdriver]

Remember, this is a forum for opinions, and everyone is allowed to have one. If you don't want to add your two cents, then don't ridicule people who do. If you want to read just articles and no opinions, look at Yahoo finance.


Bye Bye--General Lee

And my opinion was stated and two cents added! Four cents now!

 

[AA717driver]

None of us knows jack $h!t. This deal (the REAL one, not the one announced to the world in the NYT/WSJ) will be done in total secrecy and announced to EVERYONE'S surprise.

The unions will be bought off or steamrolled so if the Delta (or whoever) pilots don't like it, tough! The money men will not let a bunch of blue-collar workers tank a multi-billion dollar deal.

AND, if someone here guesses right, it will be dumb luck. TC

 

[General Lee]

There are a couple of other minor details that have to be met before you can strike. I'm glad it's in your contract - it's in everyone else's contract too.

It would appear, however, that the NMB ain't real quick to release people to self-help.

Enjoy the Kool-Aid. I hope it makes you feel better. Please name for me the last pilot group that thought they did well in a merger.

PIPE

I think the Reno Air or AirCal guys thought they did well with AAL. Also, there probably aren't a lot of people who enjoy mergers, but there are some mergers that "operationally" went well, route wise especially. The USAir and AWA merger was a seamless merger (route wise and hub wise), and that helped out both. The resulting seniority merge and East meltdown to crybaby status didn't help overall, but the merger was a success when blending two strengths.

And, if you doubt Lee Moak, then good. He did help thwart the USAir attempt, and he will do it again if he doesn't like the merger. It looks like NWA will be the partner to most analysts, (since Anderson and many of his cronies worked there), and that could be a good thing for our airline in general. Then watch the others scramble.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

None of us knows jack $h!t. This deal (the REAL one, not the one announced to the world in the NYT/WSJ) will be done in total secrecy and announced to EVERYONE'S surprise.

The unions will be bought off or steamrolled so if the Delta (or whoever) pilots don't like it, tough! The money men will not let a bunch of blue-collar workers tank a multi-billion dollar deal.

AND, if someone here guesses right, it will be dumb luck. TC

This is an opinion board. If you don't want to add your two cents, then go read Yahoo finance.

And, Wall St and the hedge funds were totally for a USAir and Delta hookup, and it was thwarted. Do you remember that? Tell me that didn't happen? I can't hear you????


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IronCityBlue]

This is an opinion board. If you don't want to add your two cents, then go read Yahoo finance.

And, Wall St and the hedge funds were totally for a USAir and Delta hookup, and it was thwarted. Do you remember that? Tell me that didn't happen? I can't hear you????


Bye Bye--General Lee

You're right about the opinion thing. Its fine (and fun) to hash out all the different viewpoints we all have. Then when someone is right (and eventually someone is, simply by default) they (myself included) then like to brag about how wise they were for having seen it all along. :laugh:

But I woun't credit Moak for the botched USAir merger attempt. That was thwarted by Grinstein and the Delta BOD convincing their creditors that they would be better off due to stand alone potential. They were wrong (from a purely near term financial standpoint) but I think its better off for everyone (except the fund dorks who like to play with airplanes at the expense of our careers) because a DAL/USAir would not have been the best long term deal. Except maybe to Parker.