NWA wants DOH

[RJ Bum]

I got an idea, let's bump every single thread ever on FI and turn it into a SWA/AT thread....

 

[SWA/FO]

but you can't continue to say the AT guys deserve a staple job

We can say what ever we want. :beer:

 

[ultrarunner]

I think an important fact to note is that SWAPA's sole purpose in life is to act in the best interest of a SWAPA member. You don't really have that in ALPA, since, for example, ALPA is representing a "mainline" pilot group at the same time it's representing "regional" pilot groups. In the latter, you have an airline who's sole purpose is to be the lowest bidder in an effort to take flying away from the mainline group. And all represented by the same union. It's a massive conflict-of-interest, IMHO. And that is why pilot unions like SWAPA are the way to go. Pilot union's that feed on both ends will always be at conflict with their members.

SWAPA does what it's members tell it to do. Period, end of story. And that's how it should be.

 

[On Your Six]

We can say what ever we want. :beer:

I hope your lawyers say that to the arbitrators. It will result in something awesome for you. You should attend the hearings yourself and stand up and yell it at them too. Someone bring a camera.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

I think an important fact to note is that SWAPA's sole purpose in life is to act in the best interest of a SWAPA member. You don't really have that in ALPA, since, for example, ALPA is representing a "mainline" pilot group at the same time it's representing "regional" pilot groups. In the latter, you have an airline who's sole purpose is to be the lowest bidder in an effort to take flying away from the mainline group. And all represented by the same union. It's a massive conflict-of-interest, IMHO. And that is why pilot unions like SWAPA are the way to go. Pilot union's that feed on both ends will always be at conflict with their members.

SWAPA does what it's members tell it to do. Period, end of story. And that's how it should be.

Anyone can expect their own union to fight for them. ALPA will fight for the Airtran pilots too. But, the arbitrators are smart enough to understand what is going on, and this isn't new for them either.


OYS

 

[SWA/FO]

I hope your lawyers say that to the arbitrators. It will result in something awesome for you. You should attend the hearings yourself and stand up and yell it at them too. Someone bring a camera.

Why don't you show up and help our process thru? My guess, is a ONE LUV style beatdown. (meaning The Trannys/Southwest guys would tag team with a SDF style beatdown on your mellon) We don't need your help OY6.

 

[rigger]

Heck i think the best best model ever used was the American Twa model ALPA worked real hard on that and Everyone (at one airline) was very happy....it worked so well before, and has a proven track record.....it could work for SW and Airtran as well as Delta And NW.....problem solved for everyone!!!

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Can we all agree that pilots are pilots. Greedy bastards that only think fair is what benefits them the most. We (NWA) thought doh was the way to go with delter. With usair, we would have been preaching relative seniority. In most cases, unless one side caves or both move to a middle ground (highly unlikely, see greedy bastard above) a neutral arbitraitor will be needed.

 

[JohnQ]

Can we all agree that pilots are pilots. Greedy bastards that only think fair is what benefits them the most. We (NWA) thought doh was the way to go with delter. With usair, we would have been preaching relative seniority. In most cases, unless one side caves or both move to a middle ground (highly unlikely, see greedy bastard above) a neutral arbitraitor will be needed.

Correcto. The DAL/NWA method is, as far as I'm concerned, the only way any seniority list should ever be integrated: a 3-person panel, both sides present their cases, and the panel makes its binding decision. I don't even know why ALPA has merger committee negotiations as part of the process. We all know that given the nature of pilots, that two sides could never come up with an agreement on their own. We might as well streamline the entire merger process and cut to the chase with arbitration, at least regarding SLI integration.

 

[ultrarunner]

... We might as well streamline the entire merger process and cut to the chase with arbitration, at least regarding SLI integration.

And what's that gonna get you? How many years are we since the AWA/USAir Nic award?

That abortion set the precedence that binding is not "really" binding, right?

 

[GuppyWN]

We all know that given the nature of pilots, that two sides could never come up with an agreement on their own.

Well sit back and watch!

Gup

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Other than all this internet masterbation, that is all anyone can do. Reality is unless one side gives in (AAI) or the other lowers the expectations of the mid/low seniority pilots I don't see how you can get a list without arbitration.

Well sit back and watch!

Gup

 

[cactusboy53]

And what's that gonna get you? How many years are we since the AWA/USAir Nic award?

That abortion set the precedence that binding is not "really" binding, right?

Not really. Binding is binding, and Final is final. The Nicolau list remains the ONLY seniority list that Mr. Parker has accepted. The courts (while stating that the DFR case was not ripe...yet) have state that USAPA is as free to negotiate seniority as its predecessor (implying that ALPA was NOT free to change the final & binding arbitration, BUT that ALPA was required to deliver & defend said list).

It's been 4 years since the honorable George Nicolau delivered his decision. Since that time, USAPA has lost 2 RICO attempts at persecution, one DFR Lawsuit (although considered not ripe yet). USAPA has won delay only, and garnered HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS straight into the pockets of LCC, LCC upper management & stock holders. They have also managed to pay handsomely the USAPA officers (Cleary got nearly $200,000 .......High Five!).

The amount of money lost in this paper chase for DOH will be staggering, and nothing to show for it.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Bump.....a walk down memory lane, Notice all the Southwest guys chiming in on the NWA/DAL SLI topic? Looks like NONE.

Bump=TOOL=PFT doosh!
I see time isn't the only thing you have on your hands digging up a 3 year old thread.
It's ok sparky, I understand your frustration as you will now be yanking gear for a very long time to come. Funnier yet, is that Air Tran guy/gal you'll be doing it for, didn't buy their job like you had to!:laugh::laugh:

 

[waveflyer]

Have you delta geeks ever been right? I'll bet any one of you that SWA will hire more than delta in the next year, 2 years, and 3 years- as the smaller airline. Again- what are you bragging about. It's a major- you got a good future- but you aren't the #1 gig.

I always think of this lyric when you geeks spout off:
"you ain't gotta like me, you're just mad cause I tell it how it is and you tell it how it might be"

Or used to be....

So go on hatin- thank you for that- makes me feel good- and keep up your debate about how DAL used to be so great and will be again later---
Just make sure you ignore the Present....

 

[On Your Six]

Have you delta geeks ever been right? I'll bet any one of you that SWA will hire more than delta in the next year, 2 years, and 3 years- as the smaller airline. Again- what are you bragging about. It's a major- you got a good future- but you aren't the #1 gig.

I always think of this lyric when you geeks spout off:
"you ain't gotta like me, you're just mad cause I tell it how it is and you tell it how it might be"

Or used to be....

So go on hatin- thank you for that- makes me feel good- and keep up your debate about how DAL used to be so great and will be again later---
Just make sure you ignore the Present....

You're dreaming if you think other airlines won't match or beat your current rates, which is good because that helps everyone. But, your flying lacks variety, with only 737s and now 717s. If the money was the same or better, and the choice of domestic or international flying was available, then most would go for money PLUS flying and airplane variety. When that happens, expect many from the bottom of your combined list (and maybe some from the middle) to jump ship.


OYS

 

[XTW]

If the money was the same or better, and the choice of domestic or international flying was available, then most would go for money PLUS flying and airplane variety.

If that were the case, I would be happy flying a 172 at my local airport spending every night at home in my own bed. Work rules and schedule are the things that matter with $$$ coming in third place.

X

 

[On Your Six]

If that were the case, I would be happy flying a 172 at my local airport spending every night at home in my own bed. Work rules and schedule are the things that matter with $$$ coming in third place.

X

A good contract will have all of that, and the pay. Throw in a place that allows you an actual choice to fly different planes to different cities foreign and domestic, and you might have a great career that doesn't bore you after year ten. 13 leg 3 day trips start to suck after year 5, regardless of the pay. FedEx pays great too, but constant allnighters might get to you after awhile if you can't hold day trips yet. And really, you'd be happy in a C172 if it paid well? Whatever. Go do it and play the Powerball.


OYS

 

[waveflyer]

Again with the future arguments- by all means, dont talk about reality as it is now- stay in dreamland- I hope you do too, for all our sake- but you're bragging about something you've been trying to do for years and haven't been able to.

Then when swa gets a third, bigger type and starts going to those various spots w/ 3 types- what will you say then??
And before you say it'll never happen- considering each airline's financials- I'd say it's more likely we'll get bigger equipment before you match our w-2s. And my fantasyland scenario is just as valid as yours.

Right now, I'm content working for a company that not only doesn't want to ******************** me, but has proven over and again that it cares- schedule, work environment and pay- that's a lot of QOL