NWA/DAL JPWA highlights

[Speedbird34]

Whenever I notice only one group smiling!!
Something must be wrong.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Whenever I notice only one group smiling!!
Something must be wrong.

If all Delta pilots think like you, this airline is in big trouble. It will be a US Airways/America West all over again. We have no information as to how the list will be merged. All that has been said is NWA pilots will be brought up to Delta pilots' pay. I'm sorry you feel you should make more money than a Northwest pilot doing the exact same job. Get off your high horse.

 

[i fly boxes]

What about regional scope guys, were you able to limit that and how many 50 and 76 jets are now allowed in the new contract?

 

[PCL_128]

Whenever I notice only one group smiling!!
Something must be wrong.

Un-frickin-believable. It's like reading a radical Eastie's thoughts after the Nic award.

 

[Flyer1015]

• 1.B.4.e Exception Two –can transfer the flow
to another carrier

For those "in the know" what exactly does this above statement mean?

 

[regionalcap]

What about regional scope guys, were you able to limit that and how many 50 and 76 jets are now allowed in the new contract?

We do not know yet. They have only given us very brief highlights of the TA. I would expect that we see it before the holidays.

 

[NuGuy]

We're offering some 15 day unpaid leaves in SOME categories. WOW. They keep their seniority during those 15 days too! Oh, the conspiracy!! (NWA has periodically offered a No Availability program for several years where the few pilots in the few categories where it was offered get 55 hours pay for taking the entire month off......see.....we've been planning this all along!! BUWAHAHAHAHA!!)

Heyas DTW,

Yup, I have to call them out on this, too.

The DAL contract has EXACTLY the same thing (special incentive leaves, one of their contract LOAs).

What's good for the goose, is apparently not good for the gander.


What kills me is this. We have a worse agreement that what we had in February, thanks to the DAL MECs refusal to budge on the arbitration issue for the SLI.

But that's EXACTLY where we wound up, with a worse agreement to boot. Had we gotten here in Feb, we ALL would have been better off.

The DAL trolls here first told us the merger would never happen unless the DAL pilots agreed (not true, it went ahead anyway).

THEN they said LOA19 wasn't a stab in the back nor a way to bludgeon the NWA guys into a piss poor SLI. They SWORE that parity was the goal of the DAL MEC.

Now these SAME guys are pissed that the JPWA has parity, but DOESN'T have the SLI. Now they claim they've lost their leverage that LOA19 gave them, which is what they SWORE wasn't LOA19s "purpose".

So, which is it guys? Is Moak a hero or a goat?

BTW, the NWAMEC approved the JPWA unanimously.

They've also covered our end and protected our pilots. Something that no other MEC these days seems to be able to do.

You're going to be VERY lucky to have these guys working in the new DALPA.

Nu

 

[clippyrip]

Whenever I notice only one group smiling!!
Something must be wrong.

You are a bit(h. You were happy with LOA 19 when NWA was not invited but changed your tune when we joined up.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What kills me is this. We have a worse agreement that what we had in February, thanks to the DAL MECs refusal to budge on the arbitration issue for the SLI. (Round #1)

But that's EXACTLY where we wound up, with a worse agreement to boot. Had we gotten here in Feb, we ALL would have been better off.

The DAL trolls here first told us the merger would never happen unless the DAL pilots agreed (not true, it went ahead anyway). (Round #2)

THEN they said LOA19 wasn't a stab in the back nor a way to bludgeon the NWA guys into a piss poor SLI. They SWORE that parity was the goal of the DAL MEC. (Round #3)

Now these SAME guys are pissed that the JPWA has parity, but DOESN'T have the SLI. Now they claim they've lost their leverage that LOA19 gave them, which is what they SWORE wasn't LOA19s "purpose".

.... The DAL contract has EXACTLY the same thing (special incentive leaves, one of their contract LOAs). (Round #4)

So, which is it guys? Is Moak a hero or a goat?

They've also covered our end and protected our pilots. Something that no other MEC these days seems to be able to do.

You're going to be VERY lucky to have these guys working in the new DALPA.

Nu

Nu,

Surprisingly, I agree with you. You are wrong about the February deal. Management required the SLI as part of the package. Without the SLI the entire deal was off the table.

Since then, everyone has had to play to the NWA MEC's terms and the NWA MEC has been successful.

Moak is a hero. He is trying to preserve Delta and preserve ALPA. His job is much harder because of the demands to balance the interests of the constituencies involved.

Your MEC has been narrowly focused on getting all it can for it's pilots. Long term doesn't matter because the Delta MEC will be the long term entity that has to deal with the future.

Because Moak and the Delta MEC has remained so focused on the future of the Company and doing this constructively, your MEC has been able to make very effective use of the "spoiler" card.

Anyone thinking of trying to stop this by voting no has to consider what the effect will be. We can't both play the spoiler position and win.

Fact is, you could have negotiated Delta's job protection provisions years ago, but your MEC was only interested in protecting junior pilots now. Now, that it helps with the SLI numbers game.

Fact is, NWA brings more pilots to the party than they have jobs to occupy. Your MEC got the refugees life preservers and a dry set of clothes to wear so they'll look "normal" to an arbitrator.

Your MEC has been effective at looking out for your interests. My MEC has been effectively looking out for mine, your's and the Company's. There is a difference.

 

[jetjockey#1]

If all Delta pilots think like you, this airline is in big trouble. It will be a US Airways/America West all over again. We have no information as to how the list will be merged. All that has been said is NWA pilots will be brought up to Delta pilots' pay. I'm sorry you feel you should make more money than a Northwest pilot doing the exact same job. Get off your high horse.

I guess we, DAL pilots, should get a pension but not you guys, so we are brought up to your level....

Yeah wait, no that does not make any sense, you are right, you guys deserve a 10% raise and keep your pension, as you should, and DAL deserves a 5% raise and no pension.. I just hope they put at least a 5 year fence around your 744 and DC9s, not wait that would not be fair either, the DC9 fence, off course....

The fact of the matter is NWA is getting the lion share of this contract and it should not be that way. I just hope the SLI goes as favorable to us as this contract is going towards you all.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Actually, what's cooking over there is even wilder than I thought:

Punitive LTD/DR Seniority Accrual Policy.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Seeks to increase the number of years that a pilot can return with seniority from medical retirement from the current contract parameter of 7 years....[/FONT][/FONT]​

Early Retirement with Permanent Part-Time Flying. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The MEC’s unanimous action assigned the proposal to the Negotiating Committee,R&I Committee, and Merger Committee .... [/FONT][/FONT]​

This isn't part of the recent LOA, but it is interesting.

 

[General Lee]

I guess we, DAL pilots, should get a pension but not you guys, so we are brought up to your level....

Yeah wait, no that does not make any sense, you are right, you guys deserve a 10% raise and keep your pension, as you should, and DAL deserves a 5% raise and no pension.. I just hope they put at least a 5 year fence around your 744 and DC9s, not wait that would not be fair either, the DC9 fence, off course....

The fact of the matter is NWA is getting the lion share of this contract and it should not be that way. I just hope the SLI goes as favorable to us as this contract is going towards you all.

I don't think there should be different pay scales, rather a larger chunk of equity (one time payment) to the DL side to make both sides feel like they got a windfall, rather than one side. Right now it appears the NWA guys got a large pay raise, some equity, and a frozen pension for the senior. That is where it should be different, a little larger equity piece for the DL guys....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[JohnDoe]

Actually, what's cooking over there is even wilder than I thought:
This isn't part of the recent LOA, but it is interesting.

First: If this retirement and part-time flying proposal is the same as the one I am thinking about, it was introduced some time ago. Probably 2-3 months ago (if not more, I think it was tabled for a time), and has nothing to do with the other furlough-mitigation proposals just published. If I am not mistaken, the proposal was introduced by a line pilot, not the union. Every single person I have talked/flown with says it is a bad idea. As a matter of fact, a union rep I spoke with said it would "die in committee and never pass." IMHO, it is nothing more than a "land grab" by certain pilots who want to have their cake (retirement) and eat it too (part-time flying). By the way....retirement and part time flying.....Which pilot group was it that did the very same thing some years ago? Hello, pot? This is the kettle.

Second:
You seem to have a conspiracy theory going with this notion of "stacking." You do realize, don't you, that one of the 4 proposals in this furlough-mitigation is an early retirement program (Perp). As in trying to get pilots to LEAVE. As in gone, off of the seniority list, buh-bye. As dtw320 mentioned, another of the proposals is taking 2 week leaves. You're right, a 2 week leave is obviously a c-o-n-spiracy. Hey, I think Fed-ex has it in their contract that with pilots on furlough, monthly max's are reduced. They must be in on it too.

Third:
On a more personnal note: Are you actually trying to say that if Delta was faced with potential furloughs, they wouldn't try some of these or other efforts to offset those furloughs? As someone who was furloughed for almost 5-and-a-half years after 9-11 and facing the possibility of yet another one , I am very glad to see these proposals. If you have a problem with our union (and, possibly even management?!?) taking these steps to prevent furloughs, well, to put it bluntly, stick it where the sun don't shine.

Finally, I have read some Delta guys say if anything, NW would benefit from Delta's staffing formula's and would actually need more pilots. Now that steps are being taken to mitigate furloughs and keep people around, it is some kind of conspiracy??? Which is it?

Rant over.....

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

For those "in the know" what exactly does this above statement mean?

Good question...I think it means Mesaba will merge with Comair and thus the flowthrough would be transferred to a different company. (probably not, but I like to stir the pot)

 

[JoeMerchant]

Good question...I think it means Mesaba will merge with Comair and thus the flowthrough would be transferred to a different company. (probably not, but I like to stir the pot)

....interesting idea....Since CMR didn't sign on to the flowthrough, I don't think you could transfer it to them without their concent.....The plot thickens...