NWA/DAL JPWA highlights

[General Lee]

There will be at least a 12 month unofficial fence put up because of the time needed to get everything on one certificate so you DAL shouldn't be worried about what will happen next year IMHO.

I assume the NWA guys will want a fence around the 744 for bidding purposes, maybe for 5 years etc. I think we should do the same around the DC9s. That would make it status quo. If the senior guys want that with the 744, then fencing the DC9 makes sense too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyinPiker]

There will be at least a 12 month unofficial fence put up because of the time needed to get everything on one certificate so you DAL shouldn't be worried about what will happen next year IMHO.

Ha! Now there's an understatement if I ever heard one.

This isn't about what happens in the next year, this is about what happens for the rest of our career's at DL/NWA. That is precisely why we were unsuccessful on talks about it the first go around as well as why management has tied it into the new contract.

 

[DTW320]

Some good news:
NWA/NWALPA just put out a flying bulletin. There will be no furloughs due to the fall draw down. The few out of category displacements will have the option to not be displaced in the fall. The revised fleet plan for Dec 31, 2008 still includes 61 DC-9s. The previous press announcements were accurate as we'll lose 10 757s, 4 A320s, and bring the -9 fleet to 61. I'm sure we'll continue to hear from DAL guys how the -9s will be parked immediately. All evidence says otherwise.

Yes.....here is the language from the new LOA:

No involuntary, out-of-category displacements or layoffs as a result of the 2008 fall
schedule pull down. Involuntary, out-of-category displacements previously published for
October 2008 will be reversed. Pilots previously identified to be displaced will be
contacted to see if they want to remain in their position or be displaced. A pilot wishing
to remain displaced does not forfeit 24.E.10. recall rights in the current agreement nor
does he forfeit those same rights in the combined agreement. Involuntary, in-categorydisplacements
will not be reversed, but those pilots away from their permanent residence
will be provided lodging and passes as if they were a involuntary temporary pilot.

 

[FlyinPiker]

- Payrates definately a plus
- Workrules improve in many areas (setback in some) ie.. jumpseat, 75 hour res guar, sick leave, retirement co-pays, time & 1/2 for time over 80, higher monthly guarantees (debatable), separate bid cat for block/reserve come to mind. A reserve 744FO will make the same under with NWA payrates at 75 hrs he will at 70 hrs with new rates.
- SLI needs to be fair

My point is some DAL guys believe they are entitled to more than NWA guys because after all, they're real DAL guys. This sentiment is BS, but I guess I'll have to live with it.

Some good news:
NWA/NWALPA just put out a flying bulletin. There will be no furloughs due to the fall draw down. The few out of category displacements will have the option to not be displaced in the fall. The revised fleet plan for Dec 31, 2008 still includes 61 DC-9s. The previous press announcements were accurate as we'll lose 10 757s, 4 A320s, and bring the -9 fleet to 61. I'm sure we'll continue to hear from DAL guys how the -9s will be parked immediately. All evidence says otherwise.

Schwanker

Awesome news! For all of us!

Who is saying the 9's are going to be parked immediately?

Out of all the aircraft operated by both DL and NWA over the last 5 years which fleet has shrunk the most and by how many numbers? Is it unreasonable to think that while needed today, they might not be needed tomorrow? Yes you can say that about any airplane in either fleet , but the fact remains that when it came to park mainline aircraft NWA management picked the -9 as being "not needed" and they didn't just park a handful. I still don't understand your arguement that old 767's are just as likely to be parked as a DC-9 considering the international arena seems to be where the money is (I don't think Canada counts), and no that doesn't mean I think Delta aircraft are superior.

Excellent work on tying the -9 to the amount of Compass aircraft...I think as more Delta pilots are educated of that fact ( in addition to the fact that we have been told the -9 indeed has a place in our collective fleets...but when's the last time you took management word) more will feel better about the immediate fate of the -9's (assuming that is still in the contract which I'm sure it is).

I much as you accuse some Delta pilots of being "holier than thou" you seem to display the attitude of "Listen here Deltoid's...stop thinking you're Sh*t don't Stank"...hopefully by time we are all working together you lose the chip and give us all a chance.

 

[DYLIN]

As of right now not every major is laying off. As far as NWA laying people off, I don't think that is the case yet, but they will determine if some do go Compass soon.

How soon, or how long, would you say that is going to take if you had to guess?

 

[Schwanker]

Awesome news! For all of us!

Who is saying the 9's are going to be parked immediately?

Out of all the aircraft operated by both DL and NWA over the last 5 years which fleet has shrunk the most and by how many numbers? Is it unreasonable to think that while needed today, they might not be needed tomorrow? Yes you can say that about any airplane in either fleet , but the fact remains that when it came to park mainline aircraft NWA management picked the -9 as being "not needed" and they didn't just park a handful. I still don't understand your arguement that old 767's are just as likely to be parked as a DC-9 considering the international arena seems to be where the money is (I don't think Canada counts), and no that doesn't mean I think Delta aircraft are superior.

Excellent work on tying the -9 to the amount of Compass aircraft...I think as more Delta pilots are educated of that fact ( in addition to the fact that we have been told the -9 indeed has a place in our collective fleets...but when's the last time you took management word) more will feel better about the immediate fate of the -9's (assuming that is still in the contract which I'm sure it is).

I much as you accuse some Delta pilots of being "holier than thou" you seem to display the attitude of "Listen here Deltoid's...stop thinking you're Sh*t don't Stank"...hopefully by time we are all working together you lose the chip and give us all a chance.

No chip here (I'll even get around to changing my avatar when I get back from the lake--leaving in a few minutes). And, I don't think the 76s are being parked. My point is all these statements of them going away as fact is baseless. The -9 fleet plan has been staying very steady for the past 8-10 years. They will eventually go away, just like the 80s, 747s, 777s and everything else. But, don't be surprised if they're still here 3-5 years down the road. After all, RA had a big part in refurbishing the -9 while at NWA as it made economic sense to do so.

Later,
Schwanker

 

[General Lee]

- Payrates definately a plus
- Workrules improve in many areas (setback in some) ie.. jumpseat, 75 hour res guar, sick leave, retirement co-pays, time & 1/2 for time over 80, higher monthly guarantees (debatable), separate bid cat for block/reserve come to mind. A reserve 744FO will make the same under with NWA payrates at 75 hrs he will at 70 hrs with new rates.
- SLI needs to be fair

My point is some DAL guys believe they are entitled to more than NWA guys because after all, they're real DAL guys. This sentiment is BS, but I guess I'll have to live with it.

Some good news:
NWA/NWALPA just put out a flying bulletin. There will be no furloughs due to the fall draw down. The few out of category displacements will have the option to not be displaced in the fall. The revised fleet plan for Dec 31, 2008 still includes 61 DC-9s. The previous press announcements were accurate as we'll lose 10 757s, 4 A320s, and bring the -9 fleet to 61. I'm sure we'll continue to hear from DAL guys how the -9s will be parked immediately. All evidence says otherwise.

Schwanker

That's great news. I think our guys are nervous that in the future those planes would be the first to go if oil got even higher. Put a fence around them for 5 years, and I think our guys would be happy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Schwanker]

That's great news. I think our guys are nervous that in the future those planes would be the first to go if oil got even higher. Put a fence around them for 5 years, and I think our guys would be happy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

In 5 years, hopefully they'll be replaced with new state of the art 100 seaters. Does that mean real DAL guys get the replacement positions and Never Ever Real DAL guys hit the street?

 

[General Lee]

How soon, or how long, would you say that is going to take if you had to guess?

Schwanker just stated the NWA MEC stated there will be no NWA furloughs this fall for the 14 plane draw down. So, I would say it wouldn't happen for awhile, unless more mainline planes are parked....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

In 5 years, hopefully they'll be replaced with new state of the art 100 seaters. Does that mean real DAL guys get the replacement positions and Never Ever Real DAL guys hit the street?

I like your NERD anacronym. You should make a sticker....really. If there was a fence around them, then NERDs would hit the street, or I guess newhires after the deal is completed. That probably makes more sense. I would assume newhires (after the certificate is made ONE) would go to the DC9 if it is still flying, and if that plane goes, they would go. Clear as mud??? No current DL pilot (when merger is completed) should go-----how about that? Sounds fair. Newhires after that----they are open game. Just my opinion....

Too bad we can't get a good deal on E190s or 717s. Maybe we will someday....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

I think we could play the "who's got the oldest, or newest aircraft game" for the rest our careers. In the end, if we all work together...this will be one very great airline and hopefully a decent place to work.

I am the B757 and word has it that it will be the first aircraft to have DL and former NW pilots actually flying together. Looking forward to it.

 

[Superpilot92]

I think we could play the "who's got the oldest, or newest aircraft game" for the rest our careers. In the end, if we all work together...this will be one very great airline and hopefully a decent place to work.

I am the B757 and word has it that it will be the first aircraft to have DL and former NW pilots actually flying together. Looking forward to it.

Best post thus far!! I concur :beer:

 

[Schwanker]

I like your NERD anacronym. You should make a sticker....really. If there was a fence around them, then NERDs would hit the street, or I guess newhires after the deal is completed. That probably makes more sense. I would assume newhires (after the certificate is made ONE) would go to the DC9 if it is still flying, and if that plane goes, they would go. Clear as mud??? No current DL pilot (when merger is completed) should go-----how about that? Sounds fair. Newhires after that----they are open game. Just my opinion....

Too bad we can't get a good deal on E190s or 717s. Maybe we will someday....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Don't agree. If the joint DAL parks it, it comes from the joint list. If NWA parks it, comes from the NWA list. Either way, I don't believe its in the plans to park them.

You didn't answer my questions, would all the CA positions on the new (replacement) 100 seater also go to NERDS? We might as well get ready for the dynamic list utilizing your thoughts.

I'm out of here, so I'll see your response Sunday.
Schwanker

 

[Flyer1015]

They arent inevitable at least not at NWA and DAL as of right now and there are many factors that lead to that belief. the flowthrough is being carried over in the new TA so anything is possible but IMHO its doubtful. We'll see.

Northwest is parking DC-9s, A319/A320s, and 757s. Delta is probably parking a few soon, but announced defers of 777s.

Parking airplanes means less pilots, so am I missing something? Why do you believe there will be no pilot layoffs at the new mega Delta?

Somebody said something about the pilot staffing ratio of the combined carrier will need to be bought up at the Delta mainline level, which means NWA has to hire more people. Maybe that has something to do with it?

I dunno, anytime I hear airplanes are getting parked, I can't help but think of impending pilot layoffs.

 

[FlyinPiker]

In 5 years, hopefully they'll be replaced with new state of the art 100 seaters. Does that mean real DAL guys get the replacement positions and Never Ever Real DAL guys hit the street?

If they are replaced why does anyone hit the street?

Trust me...we are all on on the same page in that we all don't want to see pilots from either side hit the streets but with the current sign of the times its hard not to think about.

 

[800Dog]

Best post thus far!! I concur :beer:

No, this is the best post thus far. Where are we all going to meet for beers? My vote is the Cheetah in ATL.

 

[Superpilot92]

Northwest is parking DC-9s, A319/A320s, and 757s. Delta is probably parking a few soon, but announced defers of 777s.

Parking airplanes means less pilots, so am I missing something? Why do you believe there will be no pilot layoffs at the new mega Delta?

Somebody said something about the pilot staffing ratio of the combined carrier will need to be bought up at the Delta mainline level, which means NWA has to hire more people. Maybe that has something to do with it?

I dunno, anytime I hear airplanes are getting parked, I can't help but think of impending pilot layoffs.

We just got the staffing email that said no staffing reductions will occur with the cutbacks in the fall. I added up the number of year end positions that are projected with the new revised fleet plan and without any DAL staffing model we will have just under 5000 positions needed and without anyone leaving between now and then (which people are leaving) we have around 5200ish pilots on the list currently. I dont know how many people on the list are offline guys or people out on leave so someone else will have to answer that question. But from what i can tell with the new revised plan we wont be overstaffed. Especially if we change to any form of the DAL staffing model.

As of right now there will be no staffing reductions. We have only hired 170ish pilots in the past 7-8 years so needless to say there isnt much of an over staffing issue even with the reductions. Also there is a significant cost associated with furloughing a small number of people and sending people back to compass or mesaba. NWA and soon to be DAL will foot the training costs and everything associated with the flowbacks. It just insnt worth the cost considering the furlough will be short lived and the lack of confidence that the over 60 guys we do have will stick around after the equity is paid out. We'll see.

 

[Noserider76]

We just got the staffing email that said no staffing reductions will occur with the cutbacks in the fall. I added up the number of year end positions that are projected with the new revised fleet plan and without any DAL staffing model we will have just under 5000 positions needed and without anyone leaving between now and then (which people are leavi we have around 5200ish pilots on the list currently. form of the DAL staffing model.

Dude, your enthusiam and the effort you put in are appreciated but I'm a bit worried about you as you try to break Gen Lee's posting record. Can I suggest a girlfriend, surfing, water skiing, golf, parcheesi, or twister?

 

[DYLIN]

Dude, your enthusiam and the effort you put in are appreciated but I'm a bit worried about you as you try to break Gen Lee's posting record. Can I suggest a girlfriend, surfing, water skiing, golf, parcheesi, or twister?

Maybe it is simply his position -- near the bottom of a really huge airline in tough economic times!

I, too, as someone awaiting a class date at one of the wholly owned regionals of this big huge airline, try and figure all this stuff out to the extent that numbers allow. Flowback is on my mind!

 

[DYLIN]

Also -

I think that at least 200 out of 5200 would be out on medical leave or military leave at any given time. A portion each month also unfortunately take medical leave and will never return to the line.