NWA/DAL JPWA highlights

[Superpilot92]

Dude, your enthusiam and the effort you put in are appreciated but I'm a bit worried about you as you try to break Gen Lee's posting record. Can I suggest a girlfriend, surfing, water skiing, golf, parcheesi, or twister?

Hey living the dream in the crashpad is tough!! This site is a good time waster while i am away from home and family. Also it helps me stay informed of the goings on, which during these serious times its good to be informed IMHO. More importantly it keeps me from going out and spending money, which is very important considering the paycut i took to take this job. Crazy huh?

Oh and I dont think my crashpad buddies would enjoy a game of twister here, but thanks for the ideas.

 

[Superpilot92]

Also -

I think that at least 200 out of 5200 would be out on medical leave or military leave at any given time. A portion each month also unfortunately take medical leave and will never return to the line.

Between that and LTD, Mgmt positions, retirements and people still on voluntary furlough i just dont see any over staffing right now. I too hope the flowback isnt an issue.

 

[General Lee]

Northwest is parking DC-9s, A319/A320s, and 757s. Delta is probably parking a few soon, but announced defers of 777s.

Parking airplanes means less pilots, so am I missing something? Why do you believe there will be no pilot layoffs at the new mega Delta?

Somebody said something about the pilot staffing ratio of the combined carrier will need to be bought up at the Delta mainline level, which means NWA has to hire more people. Maybe that has something to do with it?

I dunno, anytime I hear airplanes are getting parked, I can't help but think of impending pilot layoffs.

Where did you come up with 777 deferrals? Our board just approved an ADDITIONAL 2 777LRs for next year (8 total), and we are looking for more 737-700s and possibly some MD90s. A lot of our planes won't be flying in the States, where there is a slow down in pax.

As far as possible layoffs, I guess anything is possible, but we haven't heard of any yet. I guess the NWA guys were told today that they won't see any, and on our side a couple chief pilots have stated we will be hiring in the Fall.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ThisistheDream]

I can see NWA doing what CAL is doing. Offering some early retirement buyouts and company leaves prior to any possible furloughs.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Lets be honest here. NWA is expecting furloughs this fall to address an "expected over staffing problem" (their MEC's words quoted, not mine).

They passed LOA 8-46 to try to not have anyone furloughed before SLI. This is likely the reason for the delay in announcing agreement with the JPWA. This LOA is:

Letter of agreement 8-46 addresses the "expected over staffing problem" that will occur this fall.

1)Partial month leave(pml)
2)Pilot early retirement program (perp)
3)Special incentive leave program
4)Transition monthly maximum modifications

Is this a list stacking trick? Part time pilots holding seniority numbers? Pilots on leave holding seniority?

NWA pilots called us scabs for our LOA19 which increased the floor for their pay. I'm not calling them names. Nor am I calling on Prater not to sign it. But this looks like they are playing hard against the DAL guys. The DAL guys have been playing a very "clean" game. This sort of muddy water is an effective way to confuse an arbitration.

Round three goes to NWA.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Lets be honest here. NWA is expecting furloughs this fall to address an "expected over staffing problem" (their MEC's words quoted, not mine).

They passed LOA 8-46 to try to not have anyone furloughed before SLI. This is likely the reason for the delay in announcing agreement with the JPWA. This LOA is:
Is this a list stacking trick? Part time pilots holding seniority numbers? Pilots on leave holding seniority?

NWA pilots called us scabs for our LOA19 which increased the floor for their pay. I'm not calling them names. Nor am I calling on Prater not to sign it. But this looks like they are playing against the DAL guys. The DAL guys have been playing a very "clean" game.

Why should a Delta pilot vote for te JPWA?

NWA 4
DAL 0

It might be more effective, if you really feel that way to post this on the ALPA board....otherwise it's just a bunch of FUD to cause trouble for everyone....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Voice - The Delta pilots know about this. It isnlt a secret.

In this merger, by the time the membership knows, it is too late to do anything about it.

 

[DTW320]

Lets be honest here. NWA is expecting furloughs this fall to address an "expected over staffing problem" (their MEC's words quoted, not mine).Lets be honest here: You're clueless. NWA has NEVER said they expect furloughs to be necessary this fall. They HAVE said for several months now that they expected to handle any overstaffing by reducing the monthly max's in those categories. This LOA simply codifies what NWA management already suggested.

They passed LOA 8-46 to try to not have anyone furloughed before SLI. This is likely the reason for the delay in announcing agreement with the JPWA.
Is this a list stacking trick? Ummmm. NO.Part time pilots holding seniority numbers?How about RETIRED pilots holding seniority numbers and flying the 777 part time?Would that be better? Pilots on leave holding seniority? You mean just like they do at DELTA?

NWA pilots called us scabs for our LOA19 which increased the floor for their pay.No it didn't. The JPWA that was just MUTUALLY negotiated did. I'm not calling them names. Nor am I calling on Prater not to sign it. But this looks like they are playing hard against the DAL guys. The DAL guys have been playing a very "clean" game. This sort of muddy water is an effective way to confuse an arbitration.

NWA 4
DAL 0

We have yet to hear anything from our MEC. Maybe there is another side to this story. But the NWA report has it looking like they won another round.

Relax. Take a deep breath. We are reducing SOME monthly max's to 77 hours to avoid displacements. 77 hours. Pretty sneaky huh? We're offering some 15 day unpaid leaves in SOME categories. WOW. They keep their seniority during those 15 days too! Oh, the conspiracy!! (NWA has periodically offered a No Availability program for several years where the few pilots in the few categories where it was offered get 55 hours pay for taking the entire month off......see.....we've been planning this all along!! BUWAHAHAHAHA!!)

 

[Speedbird34]

Relax. Take a deep breath. We are reducing SOME monthly max's to 77 hours to avoid displacements. 77 hours. Pretty sneaky huh? We're offering some 15 day unpaid leaves in SOME categories. WOW. They keep their seniority during those 15 days too! Oh, the conspiracy!! (NWA has periodically offered a No Availability program for several years where the few pilots in the few categories where it was offered get 55 hours pay for taking the entire month off......see.....we've been planning this all along!! BUWAHAHAHAHA!!)

Just let your vote count and vote no to this TA. We can do better!:smash:

 

[Speedbird34]

Lets be honest here. NWA is expecting furloughs this fall to address an "expected over staffing problem" (their MEC's words quoted, not mine).

They passed LOA 8-46 to try to not have anyone furloughed before SLI. This is likely the reason for the delay in announcing agreement with the JPWA. This LOA is:
Is this a list stacking trick? Part time pilots holding seniority numbers? Pilots on leave holding seniority?

NWA pilots called us scabs for our LOA19 which increased the floor for their pay. I'm not calling them names. Nor am I calling on Prater not to sign it. But this looks like they are playing hard against the DAL guys. The DAL guys have been playing a very "clean" game. This sort of muddy water is an effective way to confuse an arbitration.

Round three goes to NWA.

We need to win a round on the Delta side. I am starting to hate this losing game.

Lets show them we have a will and win a round for the crew.

:beer:

 

[Speedbird34]

Whenever I notice only one group smiling!!
Something must be wrong.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Whenever I notice only one group smiling!!
Something must be wrong.

If all Delta pilots think like you, this airline is in big trouble. It will be a US Airways/America West all over again. We have no information as to how the list will be merged. All that has been said is NWA pilots will be brought up to Delta pilots' pay. I'm sorry you feel you should make more money than a Northwest pilot doing the exact same job. Get off your high horse.

 

[i fly boxes]

What about regional scope guys, were you able to limit that and how many 50 and 76 jets are now allowed in the new contract?

 

[PCL_128]

Whenever I notice only one group smiling!!
Something must be wrong.

Un-frickin-believable. It's like reading a radical Eastie's thoughts after the Nic award.

 

[Flyer1015]

• 1.B.4.e Exception Two –can transfer the flow
to another carrier

For those "in the know" what exactly does this above statement mean?

 

[regionalcap]

What about regional scope guys, were you able to limit that and how many 50 and 76 jets are now allowed in the new contract?

We do not know yet. They have only given us very brief highlights of the TA. I would expect that we see it before the holidays.

 

[NuGuy]

We're offering some 15 day unpaid leaves in SOME categories. WOW. They keep their seniority during those 15 days too! Oh, the conspiracy!! (NWA has periodically offered a No Availability program for several years where the few pilots in the few categories where it was offered get 55 hours pay for taking the entire month off......see.....we've been planning this all along!! BUWAHAHAHAHA!!)

Heyas DTW,

Yup, I have to call them out on this, too.

The DAL contract has EXACTLY the same thing (special incentive leaves, one of their contract LOAs).

What's good for the goose, is apparently not good for the gander.


What kills me is this. We have a worse agreement that what we had in February, thanks to the DAL MECs refusal to budge on the arbitration issue for the SLI.

But that's EXACTLY where we wound up, with a worse agreement to boot. Had we gotten here in Feb, we ALL would have been better off.

The DAL trolls here first told us the merger would never happen unless the DAL pilots agreed (not true, it went ahead anyway).

THEN they said LOA19 wasn't a stab in the back nor a way to bludgeon the NWA guys into a piss poor SLI. They SWORE that parity was the goal of the DAL MEC.

Now these SAME guys are pissed that the JPWA has parity, but DOESN'T have the SLI. Now they claim they've lost their leverage that LOA19 gave them, which is what they SWORE wasn't LOA19s "purpose".

So, which is it guys? Is Moak a hero or a goat?

BTW, the NWAMEC approved the JPWA unanimously.

They've also covered our end and protected our pilots. Something that no other MEC these days seems to be able to do.

You're going to be VERY lucky to have these guys working in the new DALPA.

Nu

 

[clippyrip]

Whenever I notice only one group smiling!!
Something must be wrong.

You are a bit(h. You were happy with LOA 19 when NWA was not invited but changed your tune when we joined up.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What kills me is this. We have a worse agreement that what we had in February, thanks to the DAL MECs refusal to budge on the arbitration issue for the SLI. (Round #1)

But that's EXACTLY where we wound up, with a worse agreement to boot. Had we gotten here in Feb, we ALL would have been better off.

The DAL trolls here first told us the merger would never happen unless the DAL pilots agreed (not true, it went ahead anyway). (Round #2)

THEN they said LOA19 wasn't a stab in the back nor a way to bludgeon the NWA guys into a piss poor SLI. They SWORE that parity was the goal of the DAL MEC. (Round #3)

Now these SAME guys are pissed that the JPWA has parity, but DOESN'T have the SLI. Now they claim they've lost their leverage that LOA19 gave them, which is what they SWORE wasn't LOA19s "purpose".

.... The DAL contract has EXACTLY the same thing (special incentive leaves, one of their contract LOAs). (Round #4)

So, which is it guys? Is Moak a hero or a goat?

They've also covered our end and protected our pilots. Something that no other MEC these days seems to be able to do.

You're going to be VERY lucky to have these guys working in the new DALPA.

Nu

Nu,

Surprisingly, I agree with you. You are wrong about the February deal. Management required the SLI as part of the package. Without the SLI the entire deal was off the table.

Since then, everyone has had to play to the NWA MEC's terms and the NWA MEC has been successful.

Moak is a hero. He is trying to preserve Delta and preserve ALPA. His job is much harder because of the demands to balance the interests of the constituencies involved.

Your MEC has been narrowly focused on getting all it can for it's pilots. Long term doesn't matter because the Delta MEC will be the long term entity that has to deal with the future.

Because Moak and the Delta MEC has remained so focused on the future of the Company and doing this constructively, your MEC has been able to make very effective use of the "spoiler" card.

Anyone thinking of trying to stop this by voting no has to consider what the effect will be. We can't both play the spoiler position and win.

Fact is, you could have negotiated Delta's job protection provisions years ago, but your MEC was only interested in protecting junior pilots now. Now, that it helps with the SLI numbers game.

Fact is, NWA brings more pilots to the party than they have jobs to occupy. Your MEC got the refugees life preservers and a dry set of clothes to wear so they'll look "normal" to an arbitrator.

Your MEC has been effective at looking out for your interests. My MEC has been effectively looking out for mine, your's and the Company's. There is a difference.

 

[jetjockey#1]

If all Delta pilots think like you, this airline is in big trouble. It will be a US Airways/America West all over again. We have no information as to how the list will be merged. All that has been said is NWA pilots will be brought up to Delta pilots' pay. I'm sorry you feel you should make more money than a Northwest pilot doing the exact same job. Get off your high horse.

I guess we, DAL pilots, should get a pension but not you guys, so we are brought up to your level....

Yeah wait, no that does not make any sense, you are right, you guys deserve a 10% raise and keep your pension, as you should, and DAL deserves a 5% raise and no pension.. I just hope they put at least a 5 year fence around your 744 and DC9s, not wait that would not be fair either, the DC9 fence, off course....

The fact of the matter is NWA is getting the lion share of this contract and it should not be that way. I just hope the SLI goes as favorable to us as this contract is going towards you all.