NWA/DAL JPWA highlights

[regionalcap]

Why are we not getting the same pay raise as NWA? That is BS. Parity pay MUST be both ways, they get a 9.5 to 10% pay raise day one. DAL should get the same at least. Unless they change that, there are already 3 NO votes. I just want to get the same pay raise as NWA. I am thinking a one time check addressing this issue would be just fine.

After all, besides “possible long term stability, if 60 DC9s do not disappear overnight” what is DAL pilots getting out of this deal? We still have no pension, and our raises are about half as much as NWA’s. What am I missing here? From talking to DAL pilots we are getting the short end, and we suppose to be the “acquiring” company. I am all in favor for a fair integration, but Jesus, I don’t think we should lower our pants and take it this hard. Fair is fair, and right now it sure seems one sided. NO for me.

They make less than we do. It requires a higher percentage for us to be equal. If we get the same percentage, then that would make us higher paid pilots. The idea is for parity as in we both get paid the same. Do you really want another USAIR/America west situation?

 

[Superpilot92]

The only reason DL has "higher" pay rates is because the NW guys took a cut so that they could retain the pensions of their elderly. DL did not. That is the reason for the disparity, NOT that DL is somehow "superior," lol, esp when you equally took welfare (went into bankruptcy). nothing for DL guys to be proud of, and for those NW guys, the "loan is now due."

You DL rushed through LOA19 JUST recently (sneaky sneaky) and now complain you're getting nothing more from THAT? Doesnt make sense does it? LOA 19 rates were great when they left out the NWA pilots and now its not ok??Funny.

Great post!! The reason we are even getting LOA 19 rates is BECAUSE of the Merger. NWA brings alot of CASH to the table and the combined effects of the merger is the ONLY reason why we are getting anything in these horrible market conditions. Some people need to wake up and look around the rest of the industry before they start acting like this "isnt enough". Right now we need to grab what we can, allow this merger to push on and get its feet dug in so we can plan on getting more when talks begin on the next round and hopefully we will have better market conditions at that time.

 

[Superpilot92]

They make less than we do. It requires a higher percentage for us to be equal. If we get the same percentage, then that would make us higher paid pilots. The idea is for parity as in we both get paid the same. Do you really want another USAIR/America west situation?

Couldnt agree more!! Some people need to look at the whole picture and stop the "entitlement" rants, especially in the current state of the industry. Cooler heads will prevail in this i am sure.

 

[Diesel-9]

Maybe NWA raises are for the fact I will loose a $200,000 sick leave balance I earned. Will cost those without the age 60 military medical almost $200,000 extra over their life expectancy to pay Delta's health care rates for retired pilots vs. NWA rates for retired pilots. No FMLA, loose the $99,000 (cap) disability retirement (no charge). Slightly lower pay rates at NWA after CH-11 were negotiated based on funding for the pension. Our priorities were different. Working an extra day or two a month guys can make the same totals as DAL if they want. While you guys continue to be seduced by hourly rates/bragging rights, you have negotiated away scope, pensions and other things and added large out of pocket expenses in other areas in you recent contracts. You should be venting your anger toward the +2500 that ditched you.

 

[FlyinPiker]

The only reason DL has "higher" pay rates is because the NW guys took a cut so that they could retain the pensions of their elderly. DL did not. That is the reason for the disparity, NOT that DL is somehow "superior," lol, esp when you equally took welfare (went into bankruptcy). nothing for DL guys to be proud of, and for those NW guys, the "loan is now due."

You DL rushed through LOA19 JUST recently (sneaky sneaky) and now complain you're getting nothing more from THAT? Funny.

Uhhh....DAL pilots indeed took a paycut...and loss their pensions. If you consider DAL's payrate's high now do a little research and see what they use to be.

Their was nothing sneaky about LOA19. It was voted on by Delta pilots for Delta pilots. It was was not meant to take anything away from what NWA pilots already had. Cover your own a##, heard of it? If the spirit of LOA was really to keep NWA pilots down and DAL pilots in the big house on the hill I don't think we'd be seeing a joint TA this quickly would we. The fact that everyone has been able to play nice and get a TA signed means LOA 19 might not be needed.

You can hold a grudge about it, but as recently as a few months ago our unions weren't exactly playing nice with each other. We should be encouraged that this is changing.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Maybe NWA raises are for the fact I will loose a $200,000 sick leave balance I earned. Will cost those without the age 60 military medical almost $200,000 extra over their life expectancy to pay Delta's health care rates for retired pilots vs. NWA rates for retired pilots. No FMLA, loose the $99,000 (cap) disability retirement (no charge). Slightly lower pay rates at NWA after CH-11 were negotiated based on funding for the pension. Our priorities were different. Working an extra day or two a month guys can make the same totals as DAL if they want. While you guys continue to be seduced by hourly rates/bragging rights, you have negotiated away scope, pensions and other things and added large out of pocket expenses in other areas in you recent contracts. You should be venting your anger toward the +2500 that ditched you.

I totally agree that our medical is about the weakest i've came across and that's compared to the previous regionals I worked for.

Totally blows you lose your sick leave balance as well...is that a TA thing or a just what happens in a merger situation?

Pay rates are pretty yes, but flip through the contract. Workrules and other extra's are in play here too and in fact do more for us than just having a higher payrate so don't downplay what DAL pilots have been able to keep.

I know your back was against the wall but also don't downplay the contract that produced Compass and Mesaba -900's in addition to paycuts.

We can point fingers all day long at each other about who sucks more than the other or who is bringing more to the table but the more we do the more we will find ourselves doing the same thing 20 years from now. Doesn't that sound like a nice place to work!

For DAL pilots to get NWA sized hike in their payrate's is dreaming. I think what DAL pilots are wanting is something....anything that gives them a reason to vote yes on this ( other than possible "added job security" which I will agree is priceless..well actually in this industry non exsistant, but I'm not one of the one's wanting more). NWA says they will not budge on seniority ( I wouldn't either) which is smart because they knew either way the contracts would have to be brought to equal standards.

So maybe that reason could come in the way of fences...I don't know (not because anybody's planes/bases are superior ...get off it guys....it's so no one's QOL from both sides is deteriorated). As has been mentioned before though, without a SLI complete and the details of how it's to be implemented I don't see any reason for either side to be rushing to check off another box on managements list's of things to do. We tried doing the SLI before...how'd that go? I think we all see why a "forced" SLI is tied to this whole thing.

I know we are living in a dream world thinking we can do this on our own, but I honestly think a lot of DAL pilots feel this way. Is that how it is on the NWA side?

 

[General Lee]

Why are we not getting the same pay raise as NWA? That is BS. Parity pay MUST be both ways, they get a 9.5 to 10% pay raise day one. DAL should get the same at least. Unless they change that, there are already 3 NO votes. I just want to get the same pay raise as NWA. I am thinking a one time check addressing this issue would be just fine.

After all, besides “possible long term stability, if 60 DC9s do not disappear overnight” what is DAL pilots getting out of this deal? We still have no pension, and our raises are about half as much as NWA’s. What am I missing here? From talking to DAL pilots we are getting the short end, and we suppose to be the “acquiring” company. I am all in favor for a fair integration, but Jesus, I don’t think we should lower our pants and take it this hard. Fair is fair, and right now it sure seems one sided. NO for me.

We will get a 5% raise thanks to LOA19, which in this environment isn't that bad. Also, if the DC9s disappear overnight, the NWA guys would go away with it, primarily because our certificates would not be merged into one for up to a year past the actual merger date. There will be no swapping of planes until that happens, as it takes the FAA a while to do things. Also, there will likely be fences, and hopefully one around the DC9, since the NWA guys most likely want one around the 744 also.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Great post!! The reason we are even getting LOA 19 rates is BECAUSE of the Merger. NWA brings alot of CASH to the table and the combined effects of the merger is the ONLY reason why we are getting anything in these horrible market conditions. Some people need to wake up and look around the rest of the industry before they start acting like this "isnt enough". Right now we need to grab what we can, allow this merger to push on and get its feet dug in so we can plan on getting more when talks begin on the next round and hopefully we will have better market conditions at that time.

One of the reasons NWA brings more cash to the table is because you gave it away to keep your pensions. We are giving a lot of that back to you, and your pensions, albeit frozen, are still there for your senior guys. Your workrules were also given away, and will now be restored.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Maybe NWA raises are for the fact I will loose a $200,000 sick leave balance I earned. Will cost those without the age 60 military medical almost $200,000 extra over their life expectancy to pay Delta's health care rates for retired pilots vs. NWA rates for retired pilots. No FMLA, loose the $99,000 (cap) disability retirement (no charge). Slightly lower pay rates at NWA after CH-11 were negotiated based on funding for the pension. Our priorities were different. Working an extra day or two a month guys can make the same totals as DAL if they want. While you guys continue to be seduced by hourly rates/bragging rights, you have negotiated away scope, pensions and other things and added large out of pocket expenses in other areas in you recent contracts. You should be venting your anger toward the +2500 that ditched you.

You seem to think our workrules aren't a jump up for you. I think they are. Take a look at the long haul manning for example. We will be doing a lot more of this as our 777LRs come on line. We will need 2 Captains and 2 FOs for every flight over 12 hours. You currently have 1 Captain and 3 FOs. If you don't care about that portion of the flying, then I understand, but upgrades and movement will result because of this, and onto the highest paying aircraft. Your 5 day domestic flying on the DC9 wasn't something to brag about either.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[d.fitz]

nope.
Don't like it(anyone?) block me...it will affect my life zero

Thanks! I forgot we could do that! Blocked...

 

[d.fitz]

Why are we not getting the same pay raise as NWA? That is BS. Parity pay MUST be both ways, they get a 9.5 to 10% pay raise day one. DAL should get the same at least. Unless they change that, there are already 3 NO votes. I just want to get the same pay raise as NWA. I am thinking a one time check addressing this issue would be just fine.

After all, besides “possible long term stability, if 60 DC9s do not disappear overnight” what is DAL pilots getting out of this deal? We still have no pension, and our raises are about half as much as NWA’s. What am I missing here? From talking to DAL pilots we are getting the short end, and we suppose to be the “acquiring” company. I am all in favor for a fair integration, but Jesus, I don’t think we should lower our pants and take it this hard. Fair is fair, and right now it sure seems one sided. NO for me.

So...many other companies are on the brink of BK, or already out of business, or furloughing, and you are upset because you didn't get a raise??

"We should lower our pants and take it this hard."

What exactly is so hard? Nothing is changing for you at all... Your world is the same today as it will be after the contract is signed. There is no way you were (or are) getting a raise. You have an enhanced contract with LOA 19, which we were just brought under. That was the intention from day one.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I just want to know what they did with section one. Did they keep the 76 seat retraction clause to TK + or did they include all of the pre 9/11 NWA guys.

 

[Superpilot92]

You seem to think our workrules aren't a jump up for you. I think they are. Take a look at the long haul manning for example. We will be doing a lot more of this as our 777LRs come on line. We will need 2 Captains and 2 FOs for every flight over 12 hours. You currently have 1 Captain and 3 FOs. If you don't care about that portion of the flying, then I understand, but upgrades and movement will result because of this, and onto the highest paying aircraft. Your 5 day domestic flying on the DC9 wasn't something to brag about either.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I think something we can all agree on is that BOTH sides are going to compliment each other hence why we are getting any increases while the rest of the industry would just love to be keeping what they had. This industry is Farked right now and we are fortunate to be where we are right now. Cheers to the New Delta :beer:

 

[Superpilot92]

I just want to know what they did with section one. Did they keep the 76 seat retraction clause to TK + or did they include all of the pre 9/11 NWA guys.

I agree i would love to see what was done with this also. waiting patiently for the details.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There are a lot of issues with doing that way, unless the SLI is done DOH at the bottom of the list. It would kind of show the hand of both MEC's

How about scope. Did WE as a collective group do anything to better that???