NW/DL (and ultimately affecting ALL of us): The Flaw With "Career Expectations"

[dbrownie]

Blue book pilots are the post merger pilots from

Republic/Northwest and the largest group.

What you won't read here is that we were treated like

redheaded stepchildren by the green and red guys.

Thus Blue book pilots will probably be very loyal to

Delta and align with Delta issues issuses quickly.


IMO

Dave B

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Hopefully you are well represented on the merger committee and any transitions teams.
Since you're "blue book," are there any differences in reserve schedules between the two companies? How has (or did) reserve work out for you, and will it change?

 

[dbrownie]

I was hired early in 1997 and have never been on

reserve. (thankfully)

It is a complicated system (to me) so best if I

don't try to explain it!

It does seem to work well for the people who live

close to base.

DB

 

[licorice]

The company you naively THOUGHT would allow you to be a new hire in a widebody NO LONGER EXISTS. Amazingly though, Voice, scores of DL new hires nevertheless find themselves actually physically present in the cockpit of a widebody aircraft each week, flying across the Atlantic ocean or to South America. Please explain how this is a "naive thought".



You CHOSE a company that MERGED with another...now one company with two sides that bring varying lengths of service to the table. .......and.. "Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing wether that pilot group, or any pilot group, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure"

If I were on either side I would watch very carefully the fences you decide to put up, considering to half of the pilots BASE and QOL mean eons more than equipment. What good is protecting your widebody if they send them to say JFK, SLC, LAX, or some similarly undesirable base to the majority? From the sound of it they plan a huge shuffle of NW equip to DL bases and vice versa. You're right, Voice, SLC-too many good schools, too little welfare, and too much skiing. Same with LAX, -California, you know, -nobody goes there anymore, that's why it's the most populated state in the country. --But, take MSP and DTW, for example.....please, take MSP and DTW... ..Oh, and.. here's "to the majority" (I'll drink to that!):beer:


(As for the illiterate poster who thought me "promoting" RIF was Reduction in Force even after I spelled out Reading Is Fundamental...thanks for illustrating exactly the type of incoherent post I was referring to)

I couldn't find the reference to RIF as "reduction in force" any where Voice-man. Perhaps you imagined that "illiterate" post, then projected it onto someone, thus, your "illustration of an incoherent post" may really be just an "illustration of incoherent thought".... Honestly, Voice, I thought you were drunk last night, but now I realize you probably weren't, so I apologize for making fun of your posts, and promise not to do so any more. Have fun...

 

[Heavy Set]

Voice of Reason seems to be out of it. I don't fly for either of those 2 airlines, but it is easy to see that Delta is bringing more to the merger. Nicer planes, better bases, etc. Does anyone else fly DC9s other than Venezuela and some countries in Africa? I think I saw an ABX DC9 the other day on a cargo ramp somewhere.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Just flew on a AA dc9 the other day. I also think that dal and allegiant may fly the dc9. Btw, who do you fly for??

Voice of Reason seems to be out of it. I don't fly for either of those 2 airlines, but it is easy to see that Delta is bringing more to the merger. Nicer planes, better bases, etc. Does anyone else fly DC9s other than Venezuela and some countries in Africa? I think I saw an ABX DC9 the other day on a cargo ramp somewhere.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Using size as your logic for the 9, what is your logic for the 400 being paid the same as the 777?? Btw the 747 so pays more than the coveted er. And before you go into the " 200s are going away speech" remember that they occupy slots at nrt, some being dual use(pax or cargo) and those won't be given away. That has also has to be looked at...I still think that neither sides proposal is going to be final. I think the best you can hope for is straight relative seniority and us feeling that is the absolute most we will give. And none of us know what the 3 wisemen will do if we leave it to them.







The DC9s are currently the smallest plane we have, paying the least. No getting around that. You also have some 747-200 FEs that are not over age 60 pilots, that were hired in the bottom 176 at NWA. We don't have any FE positions left at Delta. That also has to be looked at.


Bye Bye--General Lee[/quote]

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Voice of Reason seems to be out of it.

That's the understatement of the year.

I don't fly for either of those 2 airlines, but it is easy to see that Delta is bringing more to the merger. Nicer planes, better bases, etc.

Careful. The koolaid drinking nw pilots that fly those "super premium widebody" airplanes would disagree. Plus, northwest has those "fortress hubs" in MSP and DTW.

Does anyone else fly DC9s other than Venezuela and some countries in Africa?

Iraqi air still flies them.

I think I saw an ABX DC9 the other day on a cargo ramp somewhere.

I rest my case.

 

[poppi]

I get the impression Voice of Reason has a tendancy to bust oral check rides the way he writes.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I get the impression Voice of Reason has a tendancy to bust oral check rides the way he writes.

Is that you General Lee?
You have a tendency to pop up with so many screen names it's hard to keep up the ignore list.
Literacy actually helps in a number of ways.
Try it sometime flight sim DL fanboy.
(BTW-- Heavy Set, aka General Lee, aka 737Pylyt, aka Tanker Clown: You other name "Scope Out RJ's" should not have an apostrophe).
Carry on.

 

[nwaredtail]

Ask the USAir East guys if they feel "equal"? The arbitrator didn't care in that case. He did what was right--except for the top 500, he kept everyone in the same percentage as before the merger. He looked at what each airline brought to the table, and then decided. IF we had the same number of planes and pilots, it would be easier to figure out. We don't.

Bye Bye--General Lee

And the arbitrators little "warning" to the DAL guys last week better open your eyes bi-polar boy. The NWA proposal harms NO DAL pilot, while the DAL proposal takes away years of seniority from almost every NWA pilot. Yup, I am SURE the arbitrators will overlook this. I agree, they will look at NWA's superior financial numbers, less debt, fortress hubs, more cash vs. size and make a fair decision.

Seriously, one minute you are Mr. "let's have beers", the next, "we are saving NWA and their old planes" What a ****************************** bag.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The NWA proposal significantly harms many DAL pilots.... don't be so blind to your own cause. Many mid-upper level DAL pilots would be taking a huge hit in bidding power with the NWA proposal.

However, I agree that the 744 should be paid more than the 777. I also believe that all the 744 slots should have been in front of ours.

For this and other reasons..we're going to see something in between the two proposals.

 

[michael707767]

The NWA proposal harms NO DAL pilot, while the DAL proposal takes away years of seniority from almost every NWA pilot.

a statement like means you are confusing seniority with longevity. The number one pilot at JetBlue, has only been there 8 or 9 years, but he is still very senior. The bottom guy at USAir at one point had been there 16-17 years, yet he was still very junior. How long you have been there means nothing in terms of seniority.

The NWA proposal takes Delta pilots and moves them down the list between 9 and 12%,whilte at the same time moving NWA pilots up 10-15% on the list. The Delta proposal leaves everyone within a percent or two of their current position.

Further, the very topic of this thread is a flaw with career expectation. That means you can't count on moving up with retirements, or deliveries or anything like that. All that counts is what you are holding today.

 

[nwaredtail]

.

The NWA proposal takes Delta pilots and moves them down the list between 9 and 12%. The Delta proposal leaves everyone within a percent of their current position.

First of all, you failed math bigtime. The Delta proposal takes relative seniority (i'll accept that), and then gives all the DAL guys 1500 retirements that they would NOT have had over the next 10 years. Yeah, THATS FAIR.

In 10 years, the top 50% of the list would be almost 90% DAL pilots. I guess that just slipped by your guys as they were defining "fairness".

 

[michael707767]

First of all, you failed math bigtime. The Delta proposal takes relative seniority (i'll accept that), and then gives all the DAL guys 1500 retirements that they would NOT have had over the next 10 years. Yeah, THATS FAIR.

In 10 years, the top 50% of the list would be almost 90% DAL pilots. I guess that just slipped by your guys as they were defining "fairness".

Do you know for a fact that the retirements at NWA won't be offset by the airline shrinking? No you don't. Even the arbitrators shot down the idea of career expectations.

However, if you want to argue you should get better than relative because you have more retirements, that's a valid argument. But DOH means nothing.