Now is the time: Eagle

[time builder]

If I count my per-diem through training my pay was 5950, so it is not bad, but it should be more.

And how long did it take you to get through training from the first day of ground school?

 

[pacsky72]

Recall AA class just started. Here's the thread. Looks like 40 a month recall will be the goal very soon! Eagle left seats will be shifting very soon!

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=91624

 

[siucavflight]

And how long did it take you to get through training from the first day of ground school?

Two months, and 4 days.

 

[time builder]

Two months, and 4 days.

Almost $3000/month, that's not bad.

 

[siucavflight]

Almost $3000/month, that's not bad.

Again, I am counting per-diem in that figure, I do not consider my per-diem as pay, but they asked what we made including per-diem. But you are right it is not bad, but it should be better. Thay also paid for the hotel, unlike some other places cough**Mesa**cough cough.

 

[CitationLover]

Thay also paid for the hotel, unlike some other places cough**Mesa**cough cough.

cough cough **air tran** cough cough
cough cough **frontier** cough cough

 

[siucavflight]

cough cough **air tran** cough cough
cough cough **frontier** cough cough

Really? I dont understand how a company could do this to you. They hire you, drag you out of town for two months and then expect you to pay for your hotel while in training.

 

[CitationLover]

Really? I dont understand how a company could do this to you. They hire you, drag you out of town for two months and then expect you to pay for your hotel while in training.

because ATL and DEN are the ONLY domiciles for these companies. you are IN domicile in training.

Eagle won't pay for a hotel room at recurrent ground if you are based in DFW.

We all know the answer for mesa, they are cheap. But mesa at least does pay you your full gurantee pay during training.

 

[info]

Eagle: recuitment & training-message for Starscream

It seems as though the troubles with Eagle are beginning to come to a slow end. I may be jumping on the optomism wagon here, but I think things are getting a lot better. The 7-10 year upgrades we hear about are for people who have already been here for 5-7 years and have either been waiting or been displaced. Those of us who have just begun at Eagle or have been around a few years are probably in a position to be quite senior very soon.

I had a Check Airman on the jumpseat giving a line check to my captain and he says that Eagle wants to hire 600 guys this year (if they can get them to come). That is to make up for Flowbies leaving and attrition combined. They are ramping up the training department accordingly. I am hearing that Flowbies are handing in their resignations all the time. They want options and time to consider a call back to AA. Being at AE is a hindrance to them for being called back. So, they are leaving.

10 recalls a month is a smokescreen. AA isn't going to keep it at 10. That will go for a few months before they get things going again. You watch. When they get things going, it will mean FBs leaving Eagle quickly. AA has to call 6 to get 1 right now. At that rate, the 3000 guys on furlough 600-1000 may come back. Eagle has 600 of them.

Now is the time to come to Eagle.

Presumably the long upgrade time is the reason Eagle can't attract new hires; or are there other reasons I should know about before I consider applying?! The medical sounds horrendous. What about the training? Are people crashing out of it? (does anyone know what %?) I met a guy who didn't make it through ATR training because he had to learn two aircraft (he took some of the blame himself though). Anyone know how the Eagle training compares to other regionals?

Sorry- this message ia also for Starscream and anyone who may have info

 

[CitationLover]

Presumably the long upgrade time is the reason Eagle can't attract new hires; or are there other reasons I should know about before I consider applying?! The medical sounds horrendous. What about the training? Are people crashing out of it? (does anyone know what %?) I met a guy who didn't make it through ATR training because he had to learn two aircraft (he took some of the blame himself though). Anyone know how the Eagle training compares to other regionals?

Sorry- this message ia also for Starscream and anyone who may have info

overall training is fairly decent. the facilities are top notch in the regional world.

you get a lot of information in 4 weeks and then cram 7-10 sim sessions in the application of that knowledge. some people can handle it, some can't.

 

[siucavflight]

Presumably the long upgrade time is the reason Eagle can't attract new hires; or are there other reasons I should know about before I consider applying?! The medical sounds horrendous. What about the training? Are people crashing out of it? (does anyone know what %?) I met a guy who didn't make it through ATR training because he had to learn two aircraft (he took some of the blame himself though). Anyone know how the Eagle training compares to other regionals?

Sorry- this message ia also for Starscream and anyone who may have info

While I was down there I saw four classes go through. And in one class they had one guy not pass, everyone else made it through.

The medical is long, but not real intensive, and they got rid of the cognitive reasoning part of it.

 

[Starscream]

are there other reasons I should know about before I consider applying?!

In my experience, the training is great. However, it seems as though they don't cut too much slack for people who are really struggling. Then again, we've had such a hard time attracting new-hires, that we're taking people with incredibly low time. CHQ, SKW, and XJT haven't had this problem, because they don't present the imagine of a lifetime upgrade. This is certainly nothing against the 500 hr. guys who come to AE, but when you've got 8 sim sessions to prepare for the checkride, some real, hard, IFR experience (prefferably in a twin) goes an extremely long way in getting through the sim part. I heard from one Captain that his brand new FO was in total awe because he just witnessesed his first IFR approach in real IMC (ceiling that day was 1200 ft.!). I was hired in 2004, and in those days, Eagle was really no better or worse a bet than any other regional, and we had no troubles getting 50 newhires a month. Projected upgrade then was 4.5-5years. Most other places were 3-4 years. We did not have the same newhire-busting-training rate that we've had recently. It was certainly no worse than anyone else's. Long story short, if you've got some good IFR experience, are pencil sharp on twin-engine emergencies, come with a good attitude, and take a proactive role in your training (i.e. knowing flows, callouts, limitations, memory items COLD), you shouldn't have any problems at all. I was hired with 1300TT 235ME, and I found it couldn't have been any more straight forward.

Now for the real answer to your question, the reasons (at least that I've heard) for people not wanting to come to the blue and red chicken......

1. Junior Captain hired 9/6/1999. This is the big one. See one of my previous posts on why that DOES NOT necessarily translate to a 7.5 year upgrade for anyone hired today (almost 2 1/2 year hiring freeze post 9/11, flowbacks leaving, legacies hiring).

2. Newhires don't know what equipment/base they'll be assigned until day one of class. We've been pleading with mgt. to change this, but their usual stance of "that's how it's always been, it'll never change" precludes this. Ughhhh! On the bright side, even if one gets the turboprop (all warm domiciles I might add!), the pay is the same as the jet during the first year, and after the first year, getting the EMB should be no problem. You'd be able to get any domicile (BOS, ORD, LGA, DFW), except perhaps for LAX. The only bummer is that you'll be on 2nd year turboprop pay until you complete IOE on the jet (approximately 1.5 years after DOH if you bid the jet immediately after your seat lock expires).

3. Two to a hotel room during the first 4 weeks of training. I don't know if this has any real impact, but I do know it sure doesn't help. Then again, some airlines out there don't even give you a room at all.

4. Most of our domiciles are expensive to live in. And of course, we do have the rock (SJU) as a domicile. People either love it there or hate it. I live in NY, but for the PIC time I would bid SJU ATR CA in a heartbeat.

5. Lack of staffing has made life tough at times lately, especially during the holidays. Scheduling went on a junior manning bonanza on Dec 31st/Jan 1st, and they make it a habit of keeping guys at work longer than they need to be. For commuters this has to be horrible. I woulnd't be surprised if we have above average numbers of reduced rest overnights than most other places. On the other hand, though, our reserve system is slightly better than most (we have reserve proffering). Then again, other airlines have this thing called a drop trip, which no one at AE would know anything about. 95% of our drop/swap requests are met with the ever too common "Denied due to staffing" response.

6. AMR charges us to jumpseat/non-rev on all AA/AE flights. It's not a whole lot ($10-15ish one way in domestic coach, around $30-40ish one way for biz domestic), but still! If pax cabin is full, and you take the jumpseat, you don't pay the service charge. They do all this to AA pilots also, btw. AA pilots have cockpit jumpseat priority over AE guys on AA flights, and AE pilots have cockpit jumpseat priority over AA on AE flights. So, if you're trying to get to work on an AE flight, but an AA 777 CA also wants the jumpseat, you'll get it. If two guys from AE want the jumpseat on a full flight, it's determined by seniority. Domestic coach is free after 5 years of service (woo-hoo).

7. Company has been known to save a buck (literally a buck) at the cost of messing up thousands of employees' quality of life and morale. (But hey, we just saved a buck). I guess it's like that almost everywhere.

That's all I can come with. I think it all comes down to the upgrade time. That's what matters most to most people. There are reasons why it'll get much better, but then again things can always get worse. AA recalling (and increasing the recall classes now to 20/month) can only help things. Also, flowbacks cannot defer recall to remain a Captain at AE. They either have to go back, quit AE, or become an FO the next month. This is not a knock, btw, on any flowbacks who may be reading this. Y'all were great to fly with.

This is certainly not the worst place to be. It is what you make of it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[info]

overall training is fairly decent. the facilities are top notch in the regional world.

you get a lot of information in 4 weeks and then cram 7-10 sim sessions in the application of that knowledge. some people can handle it, some can't.

Thanks for the response. Re the sims : Why7-10? do they give extra if you need it, then? How many sims do you do in a row? Are you talking about ATR or CRJ?

 

[info]

Thanks to Starcream for the detailed response. You're right about the twin rooms! What is the policy? What happens after 4 weeks - is it 4 weeks regardless, or just the end of a phase of training?

 

[CopilotDoug]

I may be jumping on the optomism wagon here

Nah, your just on The Denial Wagon