Now is the time: Eagle

[time builder]

If I count my per-diem through training my pay was 5950, so it is not bad, but it should be more.

And how long did it take you to get through training from the first day of ground school?

 

[pacsky72]

Recall AA class just started. Here's the thread. Looks like 40 a month recall will be the goal very soon! Eagle left seats will be shifting very soon!

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=91624

 

[siucavflight]

And how long did it take you to get through training from the first day of ground school?

Two months, and 4 days.

 

[time builder]

Two months, and 4 days.

Almost $3000/month, that's not bad.

 

[siucavflight]

Almost $3000/month, that's not bad.

Again, I am counting per-diem in that figure, I do not consider my per-diem as pay, but they asked what we made including per-diem. But you are right it is not bad, but it should be better. Thay also paid for the hotel, unlike some other places cough**Mesa**cough cough.

 

[CitationLover]

Thay also paid for the hotel, unlike some other places cough**Mesa**cough cough.

cough cough **air tran** cough cough
cough cough **frontier** cough cough

 

[siucavflight]

cough cough **air tran** cough cough
cough cough **frontier** cough cough

Really? I dont understand how a company could do this to you. They hire you, drag you out of town for two months and then expect you to pay for your hotel while in training.

 

[CitationLover]

Really? I dont understand how a company could do this to you. They hire you, drag you out of town for two months and then expect you to pay for your hotel while in training.

because ATL and DEN are the ONLY domiciles for these companies. you are IN domicile in training.

Eagle won't pay for a hotel room at recurrent ground if you are based in DFW.

We all know the answer for mesa, they are cheap. But mesa at least does pay you your full gurantee pay during training.

 

[info]

Eagle: recuitment & training-message for Starscream

It seems as though the troubles with Eagle are beginning to come to a slow end. I may be jumping on the optomism wagon here, but I think things are getting a lot better. The 7-10 year upgrades we hear about are for people who have already been here for 5-7 years and have either been waiting or been displaced. Those of us who have just begun at Eagle or have been around a few years are probably in a position to be quite senior very soon.

I had a Check Airman on the jumpseat giving a line check to my captain and he says that Eagle wants to hire 600 guys this year (if they can get them to come). That is to make up for Flowbies leaving and attrition combined. They are ramping up the training department accordingly. I am hearing that Flowbies are handing in their resignations all the time. They want options and time to consider a call back to AA. Being at AE is a hindrance to them for being called back. So, they are leaving.

10 recalls a month is a smokescreen. AA isn't going to keep it at 10. That will go for a few months before they get things going again. You watch. When they get things going, it will mean FBs leaving Eagle quickly. AA has to call 6 to get 1 right now. At that rate, the 3000 guys on furlough 600-1000 may come back. Eagle has 600 of them.

Now is the time to come to Eagle.

Presumably the long upgrade time is the reason Eagle can't attract new hires; or are there other reasons I should know about before I consider applying?! The medical sounds horrendous. What about the training? Are people crashing out of it? (does anyone know what %?) I met a guy who didn't make it through ATR training because he had to learn two aircraft (he took some of the blame himself though). Anyone know how the Eagle training compares to other regionals?

Sorry- this message ia also for Starscream and anyone who may have info

 

[CitationLover]

Presumably the long upgrade time is the reason Eagle can't attract new hires; or are there other reasons I should know about before I consider applying?! The medical sounds horrendous. What about the training? Are people crashing out of it? (does anyone know what %?) I met a guy who didn't make it through ATR training because he had to learn two aircraft (he took some of the blame himself though). Anyone know how the Eagle training compares to other regionals?

Sorry- this message ia also for Starscream and anyone who may have info

overall training is fairly decent. the facilities are top notch in the regional world.

you get a lot of information in 4 weeks and then cram 7-10 sim sessions in the application of that knowledge. some people can handle it, some can't.

 

[siucavflight]

Presumably the long upgrade time is the reason Eagle can't attract new hires; or are there other reasons I should know about before I consider applying?! The medical sounds horrendous. What about the training? Are people crashing out of it? (does anyone know what %?) I met a guy who didn't make it through ATR training because he had to learn two aircraft (he took some of the blame himself though). Anyone know how the Eagle training compares to other regionals?

Sorry- this message ia also for Starscream and anyone who may have info

While I was down there I saw four classes go through. And in one class they had one guy not pass, everyone else made it through.

The medical is long, but not real intensive, and they got rid of the cognitive reasoning part of it.

 

[Starscream]

are there other reasons I should know about before I consider applying?!

In my experience, the training is great. However, it seems as though they don't cut too much slack for people who are really struggling. Then again, we've had such a hard time attracting new-hires, that we're taking people with incredibly low time. CHQ, SKW, and XJT haven't had this problem, because they don't present the imagine of a lifetime upgrade. This is certainly nothing against the 500 hr. guys who come to AE, but when you've got 8 sim sessions to prepare for the checkride, some real, hard, IFR experience (prefferably in a twin) goes an extremely long way in getting through the sim part. I heard from one Captain that his brand new FO was in total awe because he just witnessesed his first IFR approach in real IMC (ceiling that day was 1200 ft.!). I was hired in 2004, and in those days, Eagle was really no better or worse a bet than any other regional, and we had no troubles getting 50 newhires a month. Projected upgrade then was 4.5-5years. Most other places were 3-4 years. We did not have the same newhire-busting-training rate that we've had recently. It was certainly no worse than anyone else's. Long story short, if you've got some good IFR experience, are pencil sharp on twin-engine emergencies, come with a good attitude, and take a proactive role in your training (i.e. knowing flows, callouts, limitations, memory items COLD), you shouldn't have any problems at all. I was hired with 1300TT 235ME, and I found it couldn't have been any more straight forward.

Now for the real answer to your question, the reasons (at least that I've heard) for people not wanting to come to the blue and red chicken......

1. Junior Captain hired 9/6/1999. This is the big one. See one of my previous posts on why that DOES NOT necessarily translate to a 7.5 year upgrade for anyone hired today (almost 2 1/2 year hiring freeze post 9/11, flowbacks leaving, legacies hiring).

2. Newhires don't know what equipment/base they'll be assigned until day one of class. We've been pleading with mgt. to change this, but their usual stance of "that's how it's always been, it'll never change" precludes this. Ughhhh! On the bright side, even if one gets the turboprop (all warm domiciles I might add!), the pay is the same as the jet during the first year, and after the first year, getting the EMB should be no problem. You'd be able to get any domicile (BOS, ORD, LGA, DFW), except perhaps for LAX. The only bummer is that you'll be on 2nd year turboprop pay until you complete IOE on the jet (approximately 1.5 years after DOH if you bid the jet immediately after your seat lock expires).

3. Two to a hotel room during the first 4 weeks of training. I don't know if this has any real impact, but I do know it sure doesn't help. Then again, some airlines out there don't even give you a room at all.

4. Most of our domiciles are expensive to live in. And of course, we do have the rock (SJU) as a domicile. People either love it there or hate it. I live in NY, but for the PIC time I would bid SJU ATR CA in a heartbeat.

5. Lack of staffing has made life tough at times lately, especially during the holidays. Scheduling went on a junior manning bonanza on Dec 31st/Jan 1st, and they make it a habit of keeping guys at work longer than they need to be. For commuters this has to be horrible. I woulnd't be surprised if we have above average numbers of reduced rest overnights than most other places. On the other hand, though, our reserve system is slightly better than most (we have reserve proffering). Then again, other airlines have this thing called a drop trip, which no one at AE would know anything about. 95% of our drop/swap requests are met with the ever too common "Denied due to staffing" response.

6. AMR charges us to jumpseat/non-rev on all AA/AE flights. It's not a whole lot ($10-15ish one way in domestic coach, around $30-40ish one way for biz domestic), but still! If pax cabin is full, and you take the jumpseat, you don't pay the service charge. They do all this to AA pilots also, btw. AA pilots have cockpit jumpseat priority over AE guys on AA flights, and AE pilots have cockpit jumpseat priority over AA on AE flights. So, if you're trying to get to work on an AE flight, but an AA 777 CA also wants the jumpseat, you'll get it. If two guys from AE want the jumpseat on a full flight, it's determined by seniority. Domestic coach is free after 5 years of service (woo-hoo).

7. Company has been known to save a buck (literally a buck) at the cost of messing up thousands of employees' quality of life and morale. (But hey, we just saved a buck). I guess it's like that almost everywhere.

That's all I can come with. I think it all comes down to the upgrade time. That's what matters most to most people. There are reasons why it'll get much better, but then again things can always get worse. AA recalling (and increasing the recall classes now to 20/month) can only help things. Also, flowbacks cannot defer recall to remain a Captain at AE. They either have to go back, quit AE, or become an FO the next month. This is not a knock, btw, on any flowbacks who may be reading this. Y'all were great to fly with.

This is certainly not the worst place to be. It is what you make of it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[info]

overall training is fairly decent. the facilities are top notch in the regional world.

you get a lot of information in 4 weeks and then cram 7-10 sim sessions in the application of that knowledge. some people can handle it, some can't.

Thanks for the response. Re the sims : Why7-10? do they give extra if you need it, then? How many sims do you do in a row? Are you talking about ATR or CRJ?

 

[info]

Thanks to Starcream for the detailed response. You're right about the twin rooms! What is the policy? What happens after 4 weeks - is it 4 weeks regardless, or just the end of a phase of training?

 

[CopilotDoug]

I may be jumping on the optomism wagon here

Nah, your just on The Denial Wagon

 

[Starscream]

What happens after 4 weeks - is it 4 weeks regardless, or just the end of a phase of training?

Two to a room during indoc/systems (about 4 weeks on the jet, 3 on the turboprop), but when you go to the sim you get your own room because your sim schedule will probably be different than your roomates'. Hope this helps.


P.S. The company has just announced a sort-of solution to their inability to upgrade due to staffing. FOs who upgrade in same type will now only go to groundschool for like 4-5 days instead of 3 weeks. The company needs captains (he!! they NEED warm bodies -- all equipment, bases, and seats), but they haven't been upgrading because they claim they couldn't afford to take FOs off the line and put em in upgrade training for 2 months. But it looks like they're making an effort now at least, and this year inevitably there will be a ton of upgrades (rumor has it that in the not too distant future it will average 30-40 a month) due to flowbacks leaving. The last one could possibly be off the property at this time next year. And then there are 400 flowthru pilots with AA seniority numbers. Obviously they won't ALL go but a significant number of them still intend to flow, especially the ones in their early/mid 40s. AMR won't let them go? BS. They continue to whine about AE being "top-heavy," so if somebody on 18 year pay wants to leave, AMR will not stand in their way. And I'm sure we'll have some attrition due to DAL, CAL, FDX, SWA, JBU, UPS, and possibly UAL, NWA, and maybe, just maybe LCC hiring in 2007. What does this lead to? Upgrade to turboprop captain will be about 4 years in the future (hopefully less!). I've been here 2 1/2 years, and every time I do the math from every conceivable angle (monthly upgrade numbers, number of FOs senior to me, AA recall rates) I keep coming up with 2 more years in the right seat (meaning 4 1/2 year upgrade for me). I'd been thinking seriously about making a lateral move in the last several months (I was reeeal tempted by the 6 month upgrade at SKW, but wasn't really attracted to a commute across the continent), but for now I think I'm staying put because for me AE looks like the safest bet. If the bases/equipment etc. appeal to you, don't be afraid of that upgrade time. If that's all that's swaying you, it will come down. It won't be as quick as some of the others out there, but we will not be 7+ years, either. 4 years will probably be what we'll see this time next year, and maybe 3 years not long after.

 

[CitationLover]

Thanks for the response. Re the sims : Why7-10? do they give extra if you need it, then? How many sims do you do in a row? Are you talking about ATR or CRJ?

the sim schedule is usually after systems, fms, etc training. you usually have one or two sim sessions with no motion just going over flows, etc, then 4 or 5 in a row then a phase check. after this is your checkride, then LOFT.

they need people, so i am sure you will be assisted if needed.

KEEP IN MIND THIS IS TRAINING FOR AN AIRLINE, NOT AN INSTRUMENT RATING. THE BIGGEST WASTE OF TIME IS SEEING PEOPLE LACK BASIC INSTRUMENT FLYING SKILLS.

 

[XJohXJ]

Hey, I'm furloughed right now, I'll go to Eagle:

My requirements:

$10,000 signing bonus (or previous 121 or other turbine experience starts at 2nd year pay).
$5,000 second year FO continuation bonus.
Single room occupancy for all hotels, no exceptions.
Chicago base. (or other central/north midwestern base)

No? Ok, no thanks.


But, seriously: There are still lots of furloughed 121 guys out there, and probably burned out 121 and 135 guys, for that matter, too. Some of them aren't even a-holes like I am!

What keeps us out of starting at other regionals?

1) Sh!tty pay.
2) More sh!tty pay.
3) Unexcusable cheap-@ss bullsh!t such as double occupancy hotels.

 

[info]

Two to a room during indoc/systems (about 4 weeks on the jet, 3 on the turboprop), but when you go to the sim you get your own room because your sim schedule will probably be different than your roomates'. Hope this helps.


Yes, it does - thanks for this and the rest of the info. Not knowing whcih aircraft before training puts me off as well as the sharing. At least it's paying for my own room for 4 weeks only. Is there a training contract?

 

[info]

the sim schedule is usually after systems, fms, etc training. you usually have one or two sim sessions with no motion just going over flows, etc, then 4 or 5 in a row then a phase check. after this is your checkride, then LOFT.

they need people, so i am sure you will be assisted if needed.

KEEP IN MIND THIS IS TRAINING FOR AN AIRLINE, NOT AN INSTRUMENT RATING. THE BIGGEST WASTE OF TIME IS SEEING PEOPLE LACK BASIC INSTRUMENT FLYING SKILLS.

OK, thanks for the help

 

[Starscream]

Hey info..........

Eagle gives you a room for the entire training event. Not just systems. When you get to the sim, you get your own private room. The whole roomate thing does suck. We got that 2 years ago in the last amendment round in exchange for the increased first year pay (it was pretty significant -- it was really really low before..........now it's just really low).

And no, there is no training contract. That's been one of the big problems that they've had. People quit before day 2 if they don't like their a/c assignment. The chances of the ERJ are pretty decent, depending on your age. Right now they are giving priority to ERJ staffing because it is the by far the largest fleet type. Look at it this way, if you get the ATR, you can go to MIA after a couple months maybe in SJU, and if you get SF3, you'll probably be in DFW. It is our second most senior ERJ base, I guess because you can commute there from just about anywhere. And you'll have a line on the turboprop almost instantly. When you transfer to the ERJ, you'll be probably hold a line right away, because ever newhire that got the jet after your class will be junior to you. If you get ERJ right away, depending on the base, reserve could be closer to a year.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

How senior is ORD on the ERJ side? any CRJ's in ORD?

 

[Starscream]

ORD is one of the 2 CRJ bases. Not many newhires there lately, although that might change soon. In Feb there are only 2, yes 2, reserve FOs on the CRJ in ORD.

ORD ERJ, I'd say is 'mid' senior. Not really senior, but not really junior.

If I had to put together a list of the most senior/junior ERJ bases, I'd say it goes like this

1. LAX (mainly because it is extremely small.....only like 50 crews or so)
2. DFW
3. LGA
4. ORD
5. BOS

LAX is the more senior SF3 base, and MIA is the more senior ATR base. Right now on the CRJ ORD is senior.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

So, most new hires are getting BOS ERJ? and reserve runs about 1 year over there?

BOS is a long commute from the west !!

Thanks.

 

[Starscream]

Most newhires are getting ORD, LGA, and BOS. If you're on the west cost, try for SF3 (probably DFW) and then transfer to LAX (shouldn't take too long). Reserve is just a couple of months in BOS. In the NE, it is a larger domicile (more lines and block hours), and more junior than LGA. LGA's reserve time is longer right now, but in BOS a newhire shouldn't wait long for at least a composite line. Reserve in ORD on the ERJ is about a year and half-ish if I'm not wrong.

 

[flyby]

So, most new hires are getting BOS ERJ? and reserve runs about 1 year over there?

BOS is a long commute from the west !!

Thanks.

AE wants to hire 700 pilots in 2007. Reserve won't be long anywhere except LAX. Your first day at the company you can enter your bid preference. If there is a vacancy at that base it is entirely likely you will be awarded it. This applies mainly to the EMB. Start class in February and you'll be flying out of your choice of EMB bases by May. After training that's only 6-8 weeks of flying out of enemy territory. No big deal.

 

[Starscream]

But on the ERJ it does take about 2 years to even hold LAX.

 

[CopilotDoug]

KEEP IN MIND THIS IS TRAINING FOR AN AIRLINE, NOT AN INSTRUMENT RATING.

This is very correct. Instrument rating implies you'll be flying the plane...airline training implies you need to know how to properly turn the autopilot on/off.

 

[CitationLover]

This is very correct. Instrument rating implies you'll be flying the plane...airline training implies you need to know how to properly turn the autopilot on/off.

i'll even give you a hint: push the HDG button then ALT then AP.

if all else fails, cry.