No Union

[Humphreybogart]

What is a rasie?

See Rocker, I tried to help you yesterday by bringing it to your attention. Also, I'm the one who should be using the term "Kid" in my statements, so Rocker, stop Bogarting my verbage. Here's yelling at you, Kid.

 

[XPGuy]

(yawn)

 

[netjetwife]

I'd have voted against the NJ contract based on my principal that ALL of the NJ pilots should receive professional wages that justify the sacrifices made by their families. I do agree that Retro wasn't paid up as owed, just a signing bonus that fell short, in my opinion. That said, there does come a point when you have to accept that the other side won't budge. Just don't tell my husband I conceded the point... I do think there was one more round to go before that point was reached, but I could see that most were satisfied enough to settle. It didn't help that the company was exhibiting an ugly "take it or leave it" attitude. My insight (from a front row seat) also recognized that the pilots had too much ground to make up due to the failure of the FAb 5 to organize and lead the good fight. As for the contract, as Bill Olsen is prone to say, "It is what it is"... a stepping stone to a brighter future for all Frac pilots.
NJW

PS XPGuy, I appreciate the kind words on the other thread. I forgot to thank you there.

 

[XPGuy]

My pleasure.

 

[Guitar rocker]

I must laugh at these Pilots. My contract is bigger than your contract silliness.

Let me ask you Netjets pilots this question: If your contract is so good, why did 308 pilots vote against it?

Why did you only get 867 bucks per month or whatever in retro pay? That is effing pathetic if you ask me. Why did your spokeswoman call the contract less than perfect to the press? If you ask me, in my humble opinon and wisdom of many hardships, your contract is nice. It is not perfect and it could be better.

So your contract might be bigger than theirs, but not by much. Neither of you pilot groups have much to bragg about. So please, cannot we go back to other topics? This is getting very old and boring.

Nobody is bragging about anything. It's an issue of unions and brothers/sisters. Something that you as being only a CFI and MEII have no understanding about.............pull your carb heat, watch the suction guage and move over to general where you belong.

 

[FRACTRASH]

GUITAR ROCKERon't you sound like a real Top Gun. You must be god's gift to aviation KID.

 

[Guitar rocker]

GUITAR ROCKERon't you sound like a real Top Gun. You must be god's gift to aviation KID.

No, I dont think that at all. I am not sure how you even can make such an assumption based on anything which I have said. On the contrary, you, bogart and rocky have blatently said that you guys are the "best," that your pilots are the "best" and that your service is "second to none." Now with those kind of statements in mind, I could clearly say that perhaps you and your pals are as you say, "gods gift to aviation." Really trash, when you have to sit there on your free time and think about who is the "best," your ego has the best of you. Someday that will be the least of your concerns. Perhaps in time you will see the light and be grateful to those who got what you have today.

You represent the minority of CS pilots. Those that I know who fly there are embarrassed (as I knew that they would be) by what you spout. I know it's impossible to be thankful and kind to us NJA guys and as Bogart said, "I will never thank an NJA pilot for my raise" .........and that sums it all up. But out of respect for just your own, maybe you ought to sing a different tune here.

 

[XPGuy]

Couldn't have said that any better... and now we got this "turbinehead" guy too - I'd love to be a moderator and compare the IP addresses of turbinehead to the other yahoos that call themselves CS pilots. They truly are an embarassment not only to their company, but our profession. But, it's fun to chew them up and spit them out every time they open their pie hole... they just keep pouring gasoline on the fire. Bring it. You expose yourself... and one of these days, a CS pilot is gonna be able to pin down WHO they are, and then through this board, every CS pilot in the fleet will know who it is that belches that foul crap and giving their pilots a black eye.

 

[Stitch626]

To all who are closed minded and think they know all there is to know about unions you are foolish not to even be willing to see / hear all your options. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! We are breaking new ground in our industry (fractional) being that it's still in it's infancy. The unions of yesterday are not the union of today but the basic rules of life still hold true. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL! Let us forge our own futures together instead of having it dictated to us without a say in the matter. The questions now are, Are you intelligent enough to gather all the facts not hearsay to be able to make an informed decision? Are you capable of doing your own research and embracing change or are you going sit fat, dumb and happy?
Procrastination is the key to success! Do it and you will fail!

 

[acaTerry]

I bet Trash and bogart can't even tell us what the circling altitude at Teterhole is without looking it up.

Neither could I, but that doesn't change the fact that they are both IDIOTS!

 

[coolyokeluke]

Once again, you and your union dues paying buddies didn't get a thing for us. Our management gave it to us, you and your union did nothing. By the way, I still don't have the dues comming out of my paycheck. Teamsters should stick representing truck drivers. I just had a beer with Jimmy Hoffa last night in the Meadowlands.

I normally don't post here anymore due to changes and censorship after the death of the board's founder. But I occasionally lurk due to the fact that clear-and-a-million hasn't reached a critical mass yet and I can find out a thing or two over here. But I guess I got baited into this by flagrant ignorance of some posters that I can't just ignore.

So Humphrey, CS management had a meeting one day and said, "we have an excess of money around here. Let's just give it to the pilots because they deserve it and we're really nice guys". That seems to be the reason in your mind and others such as frac trash. Come on now.

Here's a little real world analogy. My father worked for a lumber company for several years in a managment type position. The workers did not have a union, and the owners definetely did not want a union on the property due to the fact that they'd have to pay workers more, would have to increase benefits, would not have a free hand to fire workers at will, etc. All the usual reasons. How did they keep the workers from unionizing? Every year they surveyed the competitor's mills and found out what the other mills offered their workers. They then took the mean and subtracted around 5-10% and that would be how the workers got paid. So who was driving the wage/benefits increases? That's right, the union workers at the other mills.

This is not a complex situation to grasp. So next time you see a NJ pilot, thank him for working to secure a good contract. They're really helping you out.

 

[Spackler]

Amen Brother!!! Thank you for that post Coolyokeluke!!!

 

[Going2Baja]

Ditto...great post Luke!

 

[Just Peachy]

wages...

Luke... thats about the size of it... If mgmt would treat the employees right there would be no need for unions.

Its when things get out of wack, the worker bees get fed-up and band together.

Thats what happend here at NJA. We were tired of being taken advantage of and tired of being taken as a fool.....

IE, the last contract mgmt put out that we voted down showed dismal wages, terrible working conditions ( worse than the original contract that was still in force) and we the pilots decided, we will burn this place down rather than continue.

Mgmt realized this and now we've got a good contract. Notice I said "good contract" not great.

Flt Options pilots battle is just starting when the Union gets voted in. It will take strong leadership to to steer the union ship thru the turbulent waters ahead.

'Cuz mgmt sure isen't coming across with anything extra on their own.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Coolyokeluke, assume that all non-unionized shops believed that they got their raise becuase they were the "best," "deserved it," and because they truly believed that their mgmt was going to do them right regardless of the new pay raise at the competitors shop, then your post would not be applicable. In the real world, you have presented the truth though. It's a basic cause and effect relationship that occurs after (as in your example) a union shop gets a raise, then the other non union shops need to follow suit..........except at CS. We have been reminded over and over from Trash/Bogart/Rocky that NJA's contract had zero bearing on their raise (I think that we all know better though). Last but not least, you mentioned that these CS guys outta thank and NJA pilot for their raise??? Unfortunately, not from these 3.........it will never happen. Bogart has said,"I will never say thanks to an NJA pilot for my raise."

Needless to say, I dont believe that they got their raise becasue they are the "best" and their mgmt just wanted to say, hey good job guys, here is a little extra cash for ya'll! Their next pay raise will be shortly after our next contract is re-negotiated (coincidences are just an amazing concept!)...........and their pay raise will mirror ours +1 grand perhaps. But once again, NJA's contract/pilots will not have had any bearing on that whatsoever.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Dead issue, move on!

 

[Guitar Guy]

The half dozen CS pilots I've chatted with this year have all said "thanks" for their raises. In fact, one of the crews marched right up to my partner and I at service center a few weeks ago and started the conversation by saying "Thank you for our raises...".

 

[Wyatt]

Dead issue, move on!

Thats for sure... For all the CS guys who are happy...more power to you, Im happy for you, and I envy what you have.

At FLOPs we dont enjoy the same type of work environment you do. FLOPs pilots NEED the union to push the company in the direction that all of you are enjoying.

NUFF SAID!

VOTE YES 1108

 

[dime line]

Its only a matter of time that CS will be going thru the pains of management. Might not be this year, or next, but I will happen. But in any case, enjoy your environment, I too use to enjoy going to work.

 

[FRACTRASH]

Wyatt: Good Luck to all at FLOPS! What your going through brings back memories of what I went through at the airlines.