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No More ASA

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outtahere

outtahere

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Posts
641
Sorry to say it guys, but I believe ASA is on the way out. I've been trying to figure out why we are furloughing and downgrading when we aren't doing that much less flying than last fall/winter. On average last winter we had around 700 flights per day. We are supposed to take a "major" hit to our flying this winter, however I'll be surprised if we don't wind up with around 700 flights per day. So, why the furlough? Well our contract is pretty tight when it comes to Skywest taking our planes, but there is not one mention of them taking our flying. Have you noticed that Skywest hasn't furloughed a single pilot yet? As we start to slide into winter I would be willing to bet my meager salary that you will start to see Skywest 200's and 700's in ATL. The excuse will be that hey, we didn't get cut as much as we thought we were going to, and now we don't have the resources to operate the schedule Delta wants us to, so we are going to let Skywest fill in for us for the time being. Then come next April, those twenty 200's that our "Senior" management is working so hard to place will o bye bye, and then they will want to furlough more. If they are unable to furlough past the no furlough clause, then they will just patiently wait until the hiring boom kicks off, then ASA will wither on the vine until it finally just goes away. Crazy you say? Look at Comair. Since Skywest bought ASA we have done nothing but shrink. We were to get 20 700's from Delta, they went to Skywest instead. Then they took five 700's trying to break our will on the contract. Then there was the 19 900's that were coming to ASA, but they also went to Skywest. That's 44 airplanes to Skywest, not to mention 12 ATR's, and now 20 200's. SEVENTY SIX AIRCRAFT!!!!! That is just three years of work from our leadership at Skywest. If you figure five crews per plane, that's 760 pilots. Skywest has about 1000 pilots more than ASA. The writing is on the wall folks! It had been my intention to hang up my hat here at ASA, I've got six in, and after all of this current industry bullsh!t works itself out I'll be closer to ten, but I don't believe that there will be an ASA left to work for. I've talked to a few others here, and they were all starting to think about this situation the same as I am, so what is the opinion of the Flight Info crowd of ASA pilots? This is after all the ASA board.
 
I would have disagreed with you until I saw Pinnacle's TA. If their pilot group votes for that turd we are finished.
 
outtahere said:
Sorry to say it guys, but I believe ASA is on the way out. I've been trying to figure out why we are furloughing and downgrading when we aren't doing that much less flying than last fall/winter. On average last winter we had around 700 flights per day. We are supposed to take a "major" hit to our flying this winter, however I'll be surprised if we don't wind up with around 700 flights per day. So, why the furlough? Well our contract is pretty tight when it comes to Skywest taking our planes, but there is not one mention of them taking our flying. Have you noticed that Skywest hasn't furloughed a single pilot yet? As we start to slide into winter I would be willing to bet my meager salary that you will start to see Skywest 200's and 700's in ATL. The excuse will be that hey, we didn't get cut as much as we thought we were going to, and now we don't have the resources to operate the schedule Delta wants us to, so we are going to let Skywest fill in for us for the time being. Then come next April, those twenty 200's that our "Senior" management is working so hard to place will o bye bye, and then they will want to furlough more. If they are unable to furlough past the no furlough clause, then they will just patiently wait until the hiring boom kicks off, then ASA will wither on the vine until it finally just goes away. Crazy you say? Look at Comair. Since Skywest bought ASA we have done nothing but shrink. We were to get 20 700's from Delta, they went to Skywest instead. Then they took five 700's trying to break our will on the contract. Then there was the 19 900's that were coming to ASA, but they also went to Skywest. That's 44 airplanes to Skywest, not to mention 12 ATR's, and now 20 200's. SEVENTY SIX AIRCRAFT!!!!! That is just three years of work from our leadership at Skywest. If you figure five crews per plane, that's 760 pilots. Skywest has about 1000 pilots more than ASA. The writing is on the wall folks! It had been my intention to hang up my hat here at ASA, I've got six in, and after all of this current industry bullsh!t works itself out I'll be closer to ten, but I don't believe that there will be an ASA left to work for. I've talked to a few others here, and they were all starting to think about this situation the same as I am, so what is the opinion of the Flight Info crowd of ASA pilots? This is after all the ASA board.
Click to expand...

LMAO!! THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING. You've been in this industry a very very short time and you are spewing your ignorant idiocy. SkyWest very well may furlough in the next 3 months.

You need to get out of ASA NOW. Get out, save yourself....Quit, put your money where your mouth is, then STFU. Thank you.

Trojan
 
Did I seriously just waste 2 minutes of my life reading this crap? Do yourself a favor. First, quit ASA, it's a dead end anyways right? Second, stop reading flightinfo. It's amazing how much happier you'll become.
 
I don't blame you for being concerned. It does seem somewhat dire right now, but things are tough all over. Capacity has been reduced 10 to 20 percent from two years ago. That means airlines need 10 to 20 percent less of everything. ASA with 1,600 pilots furloughs 140, roughly 10 %. Delta with 12,000 pilots may be looking at furloughing 1,000 pilots. ASA is not immune to the effects of a weak and struggling economy. By the way, I understand Skywest is less expensive than ASA to operate. That may explain their growth. Management isn't lying when they say cost matters.
Talk to management directly and ask questions. They will explain the conditions and cost differences between the different regionals.
 
outtahere said:
Boy, those are convincing facts..... Kind of like "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, trust me, I'm from Texas!"
Click to expand...


What makes you think I'm trying to convince you of anything?

I'm making fun of you.

And, I am from Texas.
 
As long as ASA is making money (and you are), ASA will be operating.
 
That was one of the most silly, least factual, and poorly written rants I have ever seen. If ASA was going away the 10 900s would have went to SKW. They wouldn't waste money on a new crew lounge or A-tech. They wouldn't have updated ASA ops with things like ACARS, skedplus+ etc from the old Pre-SKW archaic ways of doing things. At least have your facts straight before ranting...
 
Keep believing things are hunky dory here. When those skywest 200's and 700's show up this winter I will try not to say I told you so. All of you ganging up and spewing off, ask yourself this, what do I have to gain by stating what I see? All of you small minded people who just throw around slander, and can't debate the issue amaze me. These are the kinds of folks at all these town hall meetings that are comparing health care reform to Nazism. When no facts support your views, use fear and name calling.
 
<quote>We were to get 20 700's from Delta, they went to Skywest instead. Then they took five 700's trying to break our will on the contract. Then there was the 19 900's that were coming to ASA, but they also went to Skywest. That's 44 airplanes to Skywest, not to mention 12 ATR's, and now 20 200's. SEVENTY SIX AIRCRAFT!!!!! That is just three years of work from our leadership at Skywest. If you figure five crews per plane, that's 760 pilots.</quote>

You can add in N706EV the -700 that was wrecked in BTR that was never replaced.
 
He is right. Listen, if you are at a regional you are going to eat a sh** sandwich sooner or later. I know you all want to be a Major airline, but it is not what the regionals are or ever will be. You may have a few good years, but just look at the history of regionals: the cycle continues.

I wish all pilots the best, but the endless arguments of "how great my airline is" and "we're getting some new rj1000 or whatever" is tiresome.

One other note: the no furlough clause is worthless.
 
Guys like this are the reason the Pinnacle TA will pass. They are told by management its this or close the doors, yet when people say "close the doors" they never close. Yet guys like this one will vote anything in just to save a good company. I hate flying with people that say stuff like this for a whole four day, even after you tell them to shut up, they just can't stop.
 
jdubya said:
One other note: the no furlough clause is worthless.
Click to expand...


If the no furlough clause is worthless why did they end the furlough cut precisely where the last person protected was at the bottom? Do you believe they would have furloughed exactly 56 if there wasn't a furlough clause?

I'm not saying the clause will work forever or hell even past this spring, but to me saying the clause is "worthless" means the company would have acted like its not even there and furloughed to their satisfaction.
 
I concede you are correct in that it has worked, but only to a point. But depending on conditions, it can't work forever. Hopefully it won't come to that.
 
samballs said:
Guys like this are the reason the Pinnacle TA will pass. They are told by management its this or close the doors, yet when people say "close the doors" they never close. Yet guys like this one will vote anything in just to save a good company. I hate flying with people that say stuff like this for a whole four day, even after you tell them to shut up, they just can't stop.
Click to expand...
Tell ya what you little dick wad, try to tell me to shut up on a four day why don't you. I'm assuming you are an fo, I look forward to hearing it. If you knew me, you would know that I never do anything I don't believe in. What I'm saying is, we need to be vigilant with our management, all of you holding hands with them, and singing Kumbaya, have had the wool pulled over your eyes. Sure, Brads a good guy, but he does what he's told, Jerry is the one doing the telling. So you go ahead and lick his balls, and when you tell me to shut up on our four day, I'll believe you actually have some of your own.
 
samballs said:
Guys like this are the reason the Pinnacle TA will pass. They are told by management its this or close the doors, yet when people say "close the doors" they never close. Yet guys like this one will vote anything in just to save a good company. I hate flying with people that say stuff like this for a whole four day, even after you tell them to shut up, they just can't stop.
Click to expand...

Well, Pinnacle pilots would be stupid to not vote it in. It will guarantee more flying from Delta.

Boys, we screwed ourselves with our contract. Our competition can easily under-cut us, and will continue to get more flying.

For those of you who think costs don't matter, watch out if that Pinnacle pile of crap passes. We are going to be in a world of hurt.
 
Did the ASA contract have some kind of cost benchmarks and what is the status on those relating to the original posting.
 
ASA_Aviator said:
Well, Pinnacle pilots would be stupid to not vote it in. It will guarantee more flying from Delta.

Boys, we screwed ourselves with our contract. Our competition can easily under-cut us, and will continue to get more flying.

For those of you who think costs don't matter, watch out if that Pinnacle pile of crap passes. We are going to be in a world of hurt.
Click to expand...

It will pass...and we are in a world of hurt...Other pilot groups are doing what is best for them...We need to do the same...

For the past 25+ years, ALPA has screwed the pooch on the issue of scope and bidding against one another for flying....That horse left the barn years ago....You can either play the game now, or not play....If you don't play, you aren't really going to like the results....
 
I DO NOT BELIEVE THE SKY IS FALLING!!! However, that said, we have needed for quite some time to realize that our cost DOES MATTER. Pinnacle's contract just happened to be the nail that finally drove it home for some of those with solid Oak noggins.

ASA doesn't necessarily have to "go away". It's up to us to stay as long as we want. BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO START WRITING CHECKS TO KEEP OUR JOBS EITHER! What we DO need to do is start looking at real and genuine ways to make ourselves more cost competitive while maintaining our QOL and income level. YES IT'S POSSIBLE! I hate PBS, but it will reduce our cost by around 7-8%. If negotiated properly, our QOL will remain about the same. Vacation will change, but there are ways to maintain quality there too.

There are lots of things we can do to improve our situation. The problem is that it means changing the way we think; a tough nut to crack for some of the hardcores.

Is that the wind of change I feel?
 
Many of you are familiar with acl65pilot. He was a former ASA pilot and current Delta pilot. Regardless of what you think of him, he does have some insight to how things are going in Delta land....This quote of his on "the other board" is interesting....There is a big push to put Compass on the Delta list, but he thinks there is a good reason now to wait...That reason is to put pressure on the rest of the DCI carriers to lower costs.

Despite all the talk of "unity" and "the profession"....the fact is, everyone is looking out for themselves....


Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Bar; did a little bit, but in a nut shell there is not enough credit out there to get some airlines though the winter months. I see a few airlines shrinking to survive.

You want guys that are going to fix the problems, IMHO you need guys that are going to listen to you, listen to multiple options and make an informed decision. There is one way to fix a lot of our ills and that is with UNITY. With unity comes the fact that to solve this the group needs to better educate itself, and come up with a idea (s) that work for all of us. Single source ideas often never pass the error check.

As for CPS. There may be some real genius in keeping them off the property. I hate to say it, but I see it. It has to do with all of the other DCI carriers needed to be in the bottom two of cost. Well, CPS is the cheapest, so it only leave one other that is in compliance at the five year mark.
 
I'm getting out! The first descent opportunity that presents itself, I'm gone. No longer will I play to be the lowest bidder. The only thing that will stop all of this sh!t is a lack of pilots, and I'm gonna help by exiting asap. ASA, and skywest had better start thinking about retention, especially if this ATP thing passes. It's time to call a spade a spade, ASA is done because we won't sell out. Oh well, I'd rather be unemployed than be a sell out, and have to live with that the rest of my life. I'm worth a descent wage, and so are the rest of you. It's time to realize that.
 
outtahere said:
I'm getting out! The first descent opportunity that presents itself, I'm gone. No longer will I play to be the lowest bidder. The only thing that will stop all of this sh!t is a lack of pilots, and I'm gonna help by exiting asap. ASA, and skywest had better start thinking about retention, especially if this ATP thing passes. It's time to call a spade a spade, ASA is done because we won't sell out. Oh well, I'd rather be unemployed than be a sell out, and have to live with that the rest of my life. I'm worth a descent wage, and so are the rest of you. It's time to realize that.
Click to expand...

-Decent job.... First Decent opportunity.... Decent luck to you, sir.

(You will not be missed.)
-Just a Decent guess.
 
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Just a FYI SkyWest is flying 200 out of ATL in SEP. but our 900 flying goes way down in ATL in SEP also.
 
outtahere said:
Tell ya what you little dick wad, try to tell me to shut up on a four day why don't you. I'm assuming you are an fo, I look forward to hearing it. If you knew me, you would know that I never do anything I don't believe in. What I'm saying is, we need to be vigilant with our management, all of you holding hands with them, and singing Kumbaya, have had the wool pulled over your eyes. Sure, Brads a good guy, but he does what he's told, Jerry is the one doing the telling. So you go ahead and lick his balls, and when you tell me to shut up on our four day, I'll believe you actually have some of your own.
Click to expand...









I know JA and BH, and I don't think either of them are your "problem"... if ASA is performing up to snuff and profitable then they wouldn't even think about phasing it out(or whatever it is you're suggesting).
 
outtahere said:
I'm getting out! The first descent opportunity that presents itself, I'm gone. No longer will I play to be the lowest bidder. The only thing that will stop all of this sh!t is a lack of pilots, and I'm gonna help by exiting asap. ASA, and skywest had better start thinking about retention, especially if this ATP thing passes. It's time to call a spade a spade, ASA is done because we won't sell out. Oh well, I'd rather be unemployed than be a sell out, and have to live with that the rest of my life. I'm worth a descent wage, and so are the rest of you. It's time to realize that.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Finally someone with some honor. You, sir, realize that if you aren't happy, you should leave.

Thank you for having integrity.
 
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