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No More ASA

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ASA_Aviator said:
Well, Pinnacle pilots would be stupid to not vote it in. It will guarantee more flying from Delta.

Boys, we screwed ourselves with our contract. Our competition can easily under-cut us, and will continue to get more flying.

For those of you who think costs don't matter, watch out if that Pinnacle pile of crap passes. We are going to be in a world of hurt.
Click to expand...

It will pass...and we are in a world of hurt...Other pilot groups are doing what is best for them...We need to do the same...

For the past 25+ years, ALPA has screwed the pooch on the issue of scope and bidding against one another for flying....That horse left the barn years ago....You can either play the game now, or not play....If you don't play, you aren't really going to like the results....
 
I DO NOT BELIEVE THE SKY IS FALLING!!! However, that said, we have needed for quite some time to realize that our cost DOES MATTER. Pinnacle's contract just happened to be the nail that finally drove it home for some of those with solid Oak noggins.

ASA doesn't necessarily have to "go away". It's up to us to stay as long as we want. BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO START WRITING CHECKS TO KEEP OUR JOBS EITHER! What we DO need to do is start looking at real and genuine ways to make ourselves more cost competitive while maintaining our QOL and income level. YES IT'S POSSIBLE! I hate PBS, but it will reduce our cost by around 7-8%. If negotiated properly, our QOL will remain about the same. Vacation will change, but there are ways to maintain quality there too.

There are lots of things we can do to improve our situation. The problem is that it means changing the way we think; a tough nut to crack for some of the hardcores.

Is that the wind of change I feel?
 
Many of you are familiar with acl65pilot. He was a former ASA pilot and current Delta pilot. Regardless of what you think of him, he does have some insight to how things are going in Delta land....This quote of his on "the other board" is interesting....There is a big push to put Compass on the Delta list, but he thinks there is a good reason now to wait...That reason is to put pressure on the rest of the DCI carriers to lower costs.

Despite all the talk of "unity" and "the profession"....the fact is, everyone is looking out for themselves....


Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Bar; did a little bit, but in a nut shell there is not enough credit out there to get some airlines though the winter months. I see a few airlines shrinking to survive.

You want guys that are going to fix the problems, IMHO you need guys that are going to listen to you, listen to multiple options and make an informed decision. There is one way to fix a lot of our ills and that is with UNITY. With unity comes the fact that to solve this the group needs to better educate itself, and come up with a idea (s) that work for all of us. Single source ideas often never pass the error check.

As for CPS. There may be some real genius in keeping them off the property. I hate to say it, but I see it. It has to do with all of the other DCI carriers needed to be in the bottom two of cost. Well, CPS is the cheapest, so it only leave one other that is in compliance at the five year mark.
 
I'm getting out! The first descent opportunity that presents itself, I'm gone. No longer will I play to be the lowest bidder. The only thing that will stop all of this sh!t is a lack of pilots, and I'm gonna help by exiting asap. ASA, and skywest had better start thinking about retention, especially if this ATP thing passes. It's time to call a spade a spade, ASA is done because we won't sell out. Oh well, I'd rather be unemployed than be a sell out, and have to live with that the rest of my life. I'm worth a descent wage, and so are the rest of you. It's time to realize that.
 
outtahere said:
I'm getting out! The first descent opportunity that presents itself, I'm gone. No longer will I play to be the lowest bidder. The only thing that will stop all of this sh!t is a lack of pilots, and I'm gonna help by exiting asap. ASA, and skywest had better start thinking about retention, especially if this ATP thing passes. It's time to call a spade a spade, ASA is done because we won't sell out. Oh well, I'd rather be unemployed than be a sell out, and have to live with that the rest of my life. I'm worth a descent wage, and so are the rest of you. It's time to realize that.
Click to expand...

-Decent job.... First Decent opportunity.... Decent luck to you, sir.

(You will not be missed.)
-Just a Decent guess.
 
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Just a FYI SkyWest is flying 200 out of ATL in SEP. but our 900 flying goes way down in ATL in SEP also.
 
outtahere said:
Tell ya what you little dick wad, try to tell me to shut up on a four day why don't you. I'm assuming you are an fo, I look forward to hearing it. If you knew me, you would know that I never do anything I don't believe in. What I'm saying is, we need to be vigilant with our management, all of you holding hands with them, and singing Kumbaya, have had the wool pulled over your eyes. Sure, Brads a good guy, but he does what he's told, Jerry is the one doing the telling. So you go ahead and lick his balls, and when you tell me to shut up on our four day, I'll believe you actually have some of your own.
Click to expand...









I know JA and BH, and I don't think either of them are your "problem"... if ASA is performing up to snuff and profitable then they wouldn't even think about phasing it out(or whatever it is you're suggesting).
 
outtahere said:
I'm getting out! The first descent opportunity that presents itself, I'm gone. No longer will I play to be the lowest bidder. The only thing that will stop all of this sh!t is a lack of pilots, and I'm gonna help by exiting asap. ASA, and skywest had better start thinking about retention, especially if this ATP thing passes. It's time to call a spade a spade, ASA is done because we won't sell out. Oh well, I'd rather be unemployed than be a sell out, and have to live with that the rest of my life. I'm worth a descent wage, and so are the rest of you. It's time to realize that.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Finally someone with some honor. You, sir, realize that if you aren't happy, you should leave.

Thank you for having integrity.
 
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SKW has almost $1bn in cash. All of these other regional airlines that ASA has to compete with, for the 2nd lowest cost structure, have nothing even close to that. I wouldn't be surprised to see SKW purchase Mesa in the near future.
 
ASA_Aviator said:
Thank you. Finally someone with some honor. You, sir, realize that if you aren't happy, you should leave.

Thank you for having integrity.
Click to expand...

Well, let's be honest here. That's what we are "supposed" to do.

We all know regionals are only cheap if the pilots don't stay long. Once you hit year $106/hr you're making close to what a 737 captain makes, but you're generating a lot less revenue. Pinnacle has historically been a pretty lousy place to work, and therefore most guys bail out to greener grass. However, it keeps their costs down, and allows them to expand.

Fortunately, ASA has always been a pretty decent place to work, and more and more people are planning on staying here until they turn 65. Unfortunately, that -- not any gains we make in our contract -- will kill us. We could work for sub-Mesa pay, but if the bulk of our pilot group is year 12+ then we are dead. (Furloughing, by the way, won't help us with our costs.)

All the Pinnacle pilots will do by voting in their contract will be to reinforce that it's not a career airline, and pilots will continue to leave there at the first opportunity. That in turn keeps their costs down, and they will continue to grow... until one day they finally stand up for themselves and demand a decent contract. Then, just like ASA, their pilot group will get more and more senior.

Say ASA did the same thing in our next contract, for the sake of argument. If we signed off on a raw deal under the guise that it will make us cheap so we can grow, it still wouldn't do anything. We have too senior of a pilot group for it to matter.

Look at Comair -- they took huge paycuts, gave back all their trophy contract gains, and they're still getting shrunk into oblivion. Payrates aren't the problem there (they're cheaper than us) but their average longevity is killer.

Longevity, my friends, is our problem. Unfortunately, there's no answer as long as our business model is to compete for fee-for-departure flying.
 
sweptback said:
Well, let's be honest here. That's what we are "supposed" to do.

We all know regionals are only cheap if the pilots don't stay long. Once you hit year $106/hr you're making close to what a 737 captain makes, but you're generating a lot less revenue. Pinnacle has historically been a pretty lousy place to work, and therefore most guys bail out to greener grass. However, it keeps their costs down, and allows them to expand.

Fortunately, ASA has always been a pretty decent place to work, and more and more people are planning on staying here until they turn 65. Unfortunately, that -- not any gains we make in our contract -- will kill us. We could work for sub-Mesa pay, but if the bulk of our pilot group is year 12+ then we are dead. (Furloughing, by the way, won't help us with our costs.)

All the Pinnacle pilots will do by voting in their contract will be to reinforce that it's not a career airline, and pilots will continue to leave there at the first opportunity. That in turn keeps their costs down, and they will continue to grow... until one day they finally stand up for themselves and demand a decent contract. Then, just like ASA, their pilot group will get more and more senior.

Say ASA did the same thing in our next contract, for the sake of argument. If we signed off on a raw deal under the guise that it will make us cheap so we can grow, it still wouldn't do anything. We have too senior of a pilot group for it to matter.

Look at Comair -- they took huge paycuts, gave back all their trophy contract gains, and they're still getting shrunk into oblivion. Payrates aren't the problem there (they're cheaper than us) but their average longevity is killer.

Longevity, my friends, is our problem. Unfortunately, there's no answer as long as our business model is to compete for fee-for-departure flying.
Click to expand...

So what is your answer? What is ALPA's answer?
 
cessnamann said:
SKW has almost $1bn in cash. All of these other regional airlines that ASA has to compete with, for the 2nd lowest cost structure, have nothing even close to that. I wouldn't be surprised to see SKW purchase Mesa in the near future.
Click to expand...

That will never happen. Mesa owns nothing of value.
 
Speedtape said:
I say it's time to blow up the T.V., throw away the paper and move to the country.
Click to expand...

I've already thrown away the paper and moved to the country....But I'm not giving up the TV...:D
 
sweptback said:
I don't have an answer. I wish I did.
Click to expand...

So supporting ALPA without question isn't the answer? So fighting for better pay and workrules here at ASA isn't the answer? So trusting our union to "fix" this isn't the answer?....I thought an ALPA true believer would have answers.....

How about preparing to go our own way? How about giving our management a cost structure that would allow for an independent run? How about partnering with management for now, instead of fighting them? How about doing what is necessary to protect our jobs...

Your answer isn't going to cut it for an ALPA cheerleader...That isn't a good enough answer for someone we are paying 2% of our income to....
 

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