No growth at SW until 2016 now

[livin'thesim]

Some of those guys had a strike price of around 3 dollars a share.

Then when the stock splits 8 times (it's split a total of 11 times total), that strike price basically becomes 60 cents. Can you say big money?

Yea, those guys cleaned up and good on 'em. Was the 401k match a little low at the time? Sure. But then you had years of profit sharing in the 15-20% ranges and they retired mulit-millionaires. Easily.

Nothing wrong with stock options at all, but a guy has to be very, very careful to maintain an appropriate balance. I knew people who, during a BK lost their job and most of their 401k at the same time (not in aviation, but aviation could be the same type of situation).

Best to convert options slowly, and not get too greedy. Take some money off the table and diversify.

 

[redflyer65]

Agreed. We've had some more recent options, some expiring worthless and others provide some modest profit. I don't think Options are the way to go moving forward. Just trying to provide some historical perspective off Canyonblue's post.

 

[Dan Roman]

Agreed. We've had some more recent options, some expiring worthless and others provide some modest profit. I don't Options are the way to go moving forward. Just trying to provide some historical perspective off Canyonblue's post.

Just curious, how much stock do pilots get now? Is it in your 401k or how is it distributed?

 

[waveflyer]

Eh, I take breaks and then come back here on occasion. Only so much of waveflyer that I can take.

But no, still not flying much at all.

Oh I get that I'm on full blown troll status with 8500 posts, but ^^^^Says the guy with 4500 more posts than me

Believe me, none of us are impressed with you either Pcl.
Actually, Im not unimpressed with you the person, Just not your anti-SWA and anti-Swapa Schtick and certainly not impressed with your flying cred.

Getting out is a good thing, bc you very clearly want a job representing pilots, not actually being one. And if you don't fly, you cannot represent us well in any elected fashion. Better for you to get to law school and let us hire you at the attorney wages you can negotiate..

 

[waveflyer]

Are you advocating SWAPA funding independent union efforts to keep airlines from joining ALPA? In other words to undermine ALPA? Tell me I read that wrong.

Undermine?

No.

But I do support the autonomy of each pilot group. JetBlue has in the past had independent union drives. If we, and apa, and ipa, and alpa, had supported the independent union drives maybe JetBlue would have unionized much earlier.
As well as other independent drives.

To my understanding, all unions do provide some resources to organizing committees, but it's more about advice and counsel.

Between apa, IPA, and Swapa, the independent union cannot be looked at as at odds with alpa, as if alpa were a business and the rest competitors.

So who's left?

Virgin and Skywest?

 

[redflyer65]

Just curious, how much stock do pilots get now? Is it in your 401k or how is it distributed?

No stock grants at all.

We have an ESPP that does allow a 10% on shares purchased. It's been a pretty good option over the last seven years as you can imagine.

We do have the option to move into SW stock within the Profit Sharing account. Other than those to items, you have to buy on the open market like everyone else.

 

[Dan Roman]

Undermine?

No.

But I do support the autonomy of each pilot group. JetBlue has in the past had independent union drives. If we, and apa, and ipa, and alpa, had supported the independent union drives maybe JetBlue would have unionized much earlier.
As well as other independent drives.

To my understanding, all unions do provide some resources to organizing committees, but it's more about advice and counsel.

Between apa, IPA, and Swapa, the independent union cannot be looked at as at odds with alpa, as if alpa were a business and the rest competitors.

So who's left?

Virgin and Skywest?

Believe it or not, you changed my perspective a little. I can at least see the concept of all airlines being unionized and negotiating a contract taylor made to their operation being a valid one. That said, the strength of all the airlines under one union still seems like it could yield better results for all. For instance, JetBlue will do much better having the resources of ALPA behind them then if they tried to go it alone.

 

[FlyinGuy]

When it comes to Capitol Hill, I will agree that one strong voice is better. Contract negotiations are better suited when it is local.

 

[Dan Roman]

Some of those guys had a strike price of around 3 dollars a share.

Then when the stock splits 8 times (it's split a total of 11 times total), that strike price basically becomes 60 cents. Can you say big money?

Yea, those guys cleaned up and good on 'em. Was the 401k match a little low at the time? Sure. But then you had years of profit sharing in the 15-20% ranges and they retired mulit-millionaires. Easily.

Actually, I believe your 401k match is still about half what the ALPA legacies get? 15% is the norm, aren't you at 8%? You talk about the original pilots cleaning up on stock. That still is not a good retirement model. Yes they were fortunate, but putting all your eggs in one basket is a big risk. It can just as easily go the PeopleExpress route, for awhile their pilots were doing just as well as the SWA pilots with their stock and it went to zero.
How is your senior pilots getting all that stock and now current pilots not getting that stock any different from legacy pilots also no longer getting what the senior ones did?

 

[redflyer65]

Actually, I believe your 401k match is still about half what the ALPA legacies get? 15% is the norm, aren't you at 8%? You talk about the original pilots cleaning up on stock. That still is not a good retirement model. Yes they were fortunate, but putting all your eggs in one basket is a big risk. It can just as easily go the PeopleExpress route, for awhile their pilots were doing just as well as the SWA pilots with their stock and it went to zero.
How is your senior pilots getting all that stock and now current pilots not getting that stock any different from legacy pilots also no longer getting what the senior ones did?

We might be talking apples and oranges Dan.

Our current match is 9.3% and yes it's behind other carriers. Trying to get it raised and today's earnings numbers will help...as will every quarter going forward.

The 'senior' guys I'm talking about are long gone, just providing a historical perspective. When guys come on here and say the pilots didn't do well, they actually did. Could it have gone the other way? Absolutely. Just like the legacy pensions went the other way. Who of them would have dreamed they would be left with nothing? I'm sure they were told in initial they would retire multi-millionaires, but many don't have anything thanks to the bankruptcies.

 

[PCL_128]

Well done Howie....

I will stand down.

You shouldn't. SWAPA had nothing to do with any of those things. They just do a great job of taking credit for the hard work of others. They also copied, verbatim, a contract comparison report that the DAL MEC put together, and sent it out to their pilots without any credit to DALPA. Like I said, masters at riding ALPA's coattails and taking credit for ALPA's achievements. But I guess you have to be if you want to keep conning your members into believing that they've got a better deal without ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

First you tell us, PCL, that we're "going to get [our] asses handed to [us] in Section 6" because we're not part of ALPA. Then when someone points out Airtran ALPA's record, you use the other side of your mouth to point out that ALPA just "provides the resources," and it's up to local reps to use them or not. Well, it would be essentially the same group of people volunteering to represent Southwest pilots, whether it said "ALPA" or "SWAPA" on their lanyards, so exactly how would being in ALPA change anything? Seriously? Make up your mind already.

My mind is made up. Apparently your reading comprehension could just use some work. ALPA could provide you incredible resources on the negotiating front that you'll need in this Section 6. If you chose not to use them (as our MC did), then it would bite you in the ass. If you chose to use them, then they would be invaluable. The point is, the resources would be there. ALPA never crams them down your throat, though.

And other than just shouting that ALPA is "the best," nobody's addressed my actual points about the virtues of your own union. You remember, having ALPA national's interests not directly aligned with your own specific interests? For example, do you think you're ever going to get rid of outsoucing at Delta or United? Not with ALPA representing the regionals as well as yourselves, you won't.

The problem is that you don't understand how ALPA is structured. Again, ALPA provides resources. It doesn't give orders to individual MECs. If the DALPA pilots wanted to negotiate back scope, and they were willing to give up what it took to get it, then they would have nothing in their way of doing it. The fact that ALPA also represents the regionals doesn't mean anything, because no one at the regionals or at National has any control over DALPA bargaining.

 

[HowardBorden]

You shouldn't. SWAPA had nothing to do with any of those things. They just do a great job of taking credit for the hard work of others. They also copied, verbatim, a contract comparison report that the DAL MEC put together, and sent it out to their pilots without any credit to DALPA. Like I said, masters at riding ALPA's coattails and taking credit for ALPA's achievements. But I guess you have to be if you want to keep conning your members into believing that they've got a better deal without ALPA.

You're just wrong on this one PCL. SWAPA simply took a different tack on how to best develop a system of identifying Known Crewmembers. SWAPA went the direction of using biometric data to most securely identify the identity of crewmembers. The system developed and tested by SWAPA is in fact superior to the system that is currently in place even though it was not adopted for fear of cost problems. The original mandate included the need for a biometric component which is exactly why SWAPA went the direction of biometrics.


SecureScreen was jointly developed by the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA), Southwest Airlines (SWA), the Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations (CAPA), Maryland Aviation Authority (BWI), officials from TSA, and Priva Technologies. ClearedKey utilizes commercially available, biometrically enabled microchips with the government?s FIPS 140-2 Level 3 certification.
SecureScreen addresses the congressional mandates in H.R. 1 (Public Law 110-053), implementing the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission, which requires TSA to enhance security by properly identifying authorized airline flight deck and cabin crew members at screening checkpoints, granting them expedited access through screening checkpoints and to integrate biometric identifiers into airport security access control systems.
http://secureidnews.com/news-item/southwest-airline-pilots-undergo-biometric-screening/

The program, called SecureScreen, is a joint effort by the Transportation Security Administration, Southwest Airlines, the Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association, the Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations, Priva Technologies and the Maryland Aviation Administration.
More than 200 BWI-based Southwest Airlines pilots will participate in the project and have their fingerprints, photographs and other security information stored on Priva's ClearedKey devices. A reader at a TSA security checkpoint will verify pilots' identities against the devices' biometric data.
http://gcn.com/articles/2008/09/18/tsa-tests-biometrics-for-pilots.aspx?admgarea=TC_SECCYBERSSEC


SecureScreen addresses the congressional mandates in H.R. 1 (Public Law 110-053), implementing the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission, which requires TSA to enhance security by properly identifying authorized airline flight deck and cabin crew members at screening checkpoints, granting them expedited access through screening checkpoints and to integrate biometric identifiers into airport security access control systems. - See more at: http://secureidnews.com/news-item/so....GYbhET5Y.dpuf


The first participants in the SecureScreen program were 200 Southwest Airlines pilots who went through a quick enrollment process, which stored their fingerprints, photograph, and other protected security information on what is called a ClearedKey. It's a token with a USB interface. The ClearedKey data can only be accessed by TSA at a security checkpoint, where the ClearedKey reader verifies the pilot's fingerprint and also provides an additional layer of security by showing the TSA agent the pilot's photograph. After positive identification, TSA clears the pilot to proceed into the secure area to report for flight duty.

"The screening takes only a few seconds but it offers robust access control because it provides not only biometric identification of users, but an additional three different ID verification factors including the user's photo and the confirmation of the authenticity of the ClearedKey and the ClearedKey reader. In addition, the platform protects the privacy of the personal information provided by users and is designed to foil spoofing," says Chambers.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/busine...es_beyond_biometrics_says_priva_technologies/

 

[PCL_128]

Howie, you can keep droning on, but the fact remains that SWAPA had absolutely nothing to do with the program in place called Known Crewmember. Period. Captain Prater and ALPA worked on CrewPASS for years, and then eventually what came to be known as KCM, which is what you benefit under today, despite the fact that your union had absolutely nothing to do with it. Once again, riding on ALPA's coattails.

 

[twepilot]

"Captain Prater and ALPA worked on CrewPASS for years..." Why did something as simple as a modem, an internet connection, a lap top computer and a high school drop out take ALPO "years" to achieve?

RV