No growth at SW until 2016 now

[livin'thesim]

Some of those guys had a strike price of around 3 dollars a share.

Then when the stock splits 8 times (it's split a total of 11 times total), that strike price basically becomes 60 cents. Can you say big money?

Yea, those guys cleaned up and good on 'em. Was the 401k match a little low at the time? Sure. But then you had years of profit sharing in the 15-20% ranges and they retired mulit-millionaires. Easily.

Nothing wrong with stock options at all, but a guy has to be very, very careful to maintain an appropriate balance. I knew people who, during a BK lost their job and most of their 401k at the same time (not in aviation, but aviation could be the same type of situation).

Best to convert options slowly, and not get too greedy. Take some money off the table and diversify.

 

[redflyer65]

Agreed. We've had some more recent options, some expiring worthless and others provide some modest profit. I don't think Options are the way to go moving forward. Just trying to provide some historical perspective off Canyonblue's post.

 

[Dan Roman]

Agreed. We've had some more recent options, some expiring worthless and others provide some modest profit. I don't Options are the way to go moving forward. Just trying to provide some historical perspective off Canyonblue's post.

Just curious, how much stock do pilots get now? Is it in your 401k or how is it distributed?

 

[waveflyer]

Eh, I take breaks and then come back here on occasion. Only so much of waveflyer that I can take.

But no, still not flying much at all.

Oh I get that I'm on full blown troll status with 8500 posts, but ^^^^Says the guy with 4500 more posts than me

Believe me, none of us are impressed with you either Pcl.
Actually, Im not unimpressed with you the person, Just not your anti-SWA and anti-Swapa Schtick and certainly not impressed with your flying cred.

Getting out is a good thing, bc you very clearly want a job representing pilots, not actually being one. And if you don't fly, you cannot represent us well in any elected fashion. Better for you to get to law school and let us hire you at the attorney wages you can negotiate..

 

[waveflyer]

Are you advocating SWAPA funding independent union efforts to keep airlines from joining ALPA? In other words to undermine ALPA? Tell me I read that wrong.

Undermine?

No.

But I do support the autonomy of each pilot group. JetBlue has in the past had independent union drives. If we, and apa, and ipa, and alpa, had supported the independent union drives maybe JetBlue would have unionized much earlier.
As well as other independent drives.

To my understanding, all unions do provide some resources to organizing committees, but it's more about advice and counsel.

Between apa, IPA, and Swapa, the independent union cannot be looked at as at odds with alpa, as if alpa were a business and the rest competitors.

So who's left?

Virgin and Skywest?

 

[redflyer65]

Just curious, how much stock do pilots get now? Is it in your 401k or how is it distributed?

No stock grants at all.

We have an ESPP that does allow a 10% on shares purchased. It's been a pretty good option over the last seven years as you can imagine.

We do have the option to move into SW stock within the Profit Sharing account. Other than those to items, you have to buy on the open market like everyone else.

 

[Dan Roman]

Undermine?

No.

But I do support the autonomy of each pilot group. JetBlue has in the past had independent union drives. If we, and apa, and ipa, and alpa, had supported the independent union drives maybe JetBlue would have unionized much earlier.
As well as other independent drives.

To my understanding, all unions do provide some resources to organizing committees, but it's more about advice and counsel.

Between apa, IPA, and Swapa, the independent union cannot be looked at as at odds with alpa, as if alpa were a business and the rest competitors.

So who's left?

Virgin and Skywest?

Believe it or not, you changed my perspective a little. I can at least see the concept of all airlines being unionized and negotiating a contract taylor made to their operation being a valid one. That said, the strength of all the airlines under one union still seems like it could yield better results for all. For instance, JetBlue will do much better having the resources of ALPA behind them then if they tried to go it alone.

 

[FlyinGuy]

When it comes to Capitol Hill, I will agree that one strong voice is better. Contract negotiations are better suited when it is local.

 

[Dan Roman]

Some of those guys had a strike price of around 3 dollars a share.

Then when the stock splits 8 times (it's split a total of 11 times total), that strike price basically becomes 60 cents. Can you say big money?

Yea, those guys cleaned up and good on 'em. Was the 401k match a little low at the time? Sure. But then you had years of profit sharing in the 15-20% ranges and they retired mulit-millionaires. Easily.

Actually, I believe your 401k match is still about half what the ALPA legacies get? 15% is the norm, aren't you at 8%? You talk about the original pilots cleaning up on stock. That still is not a good retirement model. Yes they were fortunate, but putting all your eggs in one basket is a big risk. It can just as easily go the PeopleExpress route, for awhile their pilots were doing just as well as the SWA pilots with their stock and it went to zero.
How is your senior pilots getting all that stock and now current pilots not getting that stock any different from legacy pilots also no longer getting what the senior ones did?

 

[redflyer65]

Actually, I believe your 401k match is still about half what the ALPA legacies get? 15% is the norm, aren't you at 8%? You talk about the original pilots cleaning up on stock. That still is not a good retirement model. Yes they were fortunate, but putting all your eggs in one basket is a big risk. It can just as easily go the PeopleExpress route, for awhile their pilots were doing just as well as the SWA pilots with their stock and it went to zero.
How is your senior pilots getting all that stock and now current pilots not getting that stock any different from legacy pilots also no longer getting what the senior ones did?

We might be talking apples and oranges Dan.

Our current match is 9.3% and yes it's behind other carriers. Trying to get it raised and today's earnings numbers will help...as will every quarter going forward.

The 'senior' guys I'm talking about are long gone, just providing a historical perspective. When guys come on here and say the pilots didn't do well, they actually did. Could it have gone the other way? Absolutely. Just like the legacy pensions went the other way. Who of them would have dreamed they would be left with nothing? I'm sure they were told in initial they would retire multi-millionaires, but many don't have anything thanks to the bankruptcies.