No growth at SW until 2016 now

[HowardBorden]

YGTBSM......you really believe that don't you. We show our ID and drivers license and go to the gate. That's the way it should be. It's quite possible it took longer than it had to because SWAPA put out a competing option. It wasn't as good so it didn't get selected. It would have been nice if SWAPA would have just supported ALPA's efforts.

Dan, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do some research please. SWAPA was simply the first union to partner with TSA to incorporate biometric data into pilot screening. The reason for that biometric component was it was in accordance with the 9/11 commission guidance on the matter. The TSA and the the House Committee on Homeland Security both mandated biometrics as a piece of the pilot approval process. SWAPA was not in any way pulling in a different direction than ALPA, they were both incorporating biometrics because that was a mandate of the pilot screening process. SWAPA simply had a working product before ALPA. Please look at this article from 2008 touting SWAPA as the pioneer in this technology.

A pilot from Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) will be the first aircrew member to be screened by the US Transportation Security Administration (TSA) using an advanced biometric screening system.

The demonstration project, which has TSA approval, is called SecureScreen. It uses biometrics for the positive identification of aircrew members to increase the security and efficiency of screening people attemtping to gain access to the cockpit of aircraft.

More than 200 Southwest Airlines pilots based at the Baltimore/Washington International Airport will be taking part in the trial of SecureScreen, which is scheduled to last for 20 days.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/TSA+t...ect+on+Southwest+Airlines+pilots.-a0185258494

ALPA soon came around to a similar process known as CrewPASS debuted in June of 2009. Of course ALPA claims to be the pioneer in this technology even though SWAPA had been operating a program a year earlier. Please watch the 2009 video put out by ALPA touting themselves as the pioneer of this technology that SWAPA had already successfully demonstrated in 2008.

http://alpatv.alpa.org/DesktopModules/UltraVideoGallery/UltraVideoGallery.swf?vId=188&portalId=14

So yes, I really do believe all of that. And, I have provided factual proof to back up my assertions. You claim: "We show our ID and drivers license and go to the gate." But, we could have just as easily shown our ID and never reached into our wallets for a drivers license but simply laid our finger on the pad to confirm our identity in a much more secure system. The one and only reason the biometric solution did not get implemented was the bitching and moaning from the A4A that it would cost too much even though the costs were basically identical as I have shown in previous articles.

 

[PCL_128]

I think I get it. Arrogance means not willing to give you relative seniority or date of hire

No, that's entirely expected. I wouldn't respect a union rep who didn't fight tooth and nail for his members. I'm talking about things he said that had absolutely no relation to the SLI. He's just an arrogant POS overall.

 

[vixin]

arrogant doosh as Steve Chase

He was a panzy a55 president that was pathetic. Now he could be an arrogant a55 to his fellow pilots. I saw that first hand in the jetway as he berated another CA for something fairly small. Steve Chase was nothing you think he was. A leader of our union he sure wasn't!

 

[Dan Roman]

Howie, that still doesn't change my premise....ALPA was working for all pilots, we really don't know what the politics were behind the scene. I'm guessing it had less to do with either union and more to do with Government bureaucracy , but I simply made the point that maybe it could have gone quicker had SWAPA and ALPA worked together for all pilots. If SWAPA was trying to get a system going so all pilots could use it, good for them. I have to wonder if they were trying to get a system going that would have been specific for just SWA pilots though. There does seem to be a bit of Warrior Spirit all about us that comes from SWA.

 

[HowardBorden]

Howie, that still doesn't change my premise....ALPA was working for all pilots, we really don't know what the politics were behind the scene. I'm guessing it had less to do with either union and more to do with Government bureaucracy , but I simply made the point that maybe it could have gone quicker had SWAPA and ALPA worked together for all pilots. If SWAPA was trying to get a system going so all pilots could use it, good for them. I have to wonder if they were trying to get a system going that would have been specific for just SWA pilots though. There does seem to be a bit of Warrior Spirit all about us that comes from SWA.

You can't honestly believe that the TSA partnered with SWAPA to test a system that would have only been used to screen SWAPA pilots. SWAPA pilots were less than 1/10 of the 65,000 pilots working at US airlines.

The government bureaucracy was behind the use of biometrics, they had to be! It was directly stated as a portion of H.R. 1 (Public Law 110-053). The TSA was behind it, testing multiple systems. The pilot unions were behind it. U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson, ranking member of the House Committee on Homeland Security was behind it. The only group out of all the concerned parties not behind biometrics was the A4A. The only concern of the A4A is profit, not safety. The A4A lobbied hard to circumvent the the use of biometrics and nullify the requirement of H.R. 1 (Public Law 110-053) because they knew they were the group footing the bill and they worried that the safest option was not the cheapest option.

You continually try and paint yourself as a disinterested, casual observer with no adverse bias against all things SWA and it's a crock. You simply can't objectively look at overwhelming factual evidence and come to the conclusion that SWAPA and SWA actually were part of a smarter solution to a complex problem. I don't have a problem with your outright bias, you are only one of many, it is the preposterous assertion that the bias doesn't exist that is irritating.

 

[PCL_128]

What's irritating is your absolute refusal to admit that you and the profession would be better off if you were working with us instead of apart from us.

 

[SWA Bubba]

What's irritating is your absolute refusal to admit that you and the profession would be better off if you were working with us instead of apart from us.

Again with the, "you need to be ALPA, and no other airline union is good enough." For the 900th time. And the rest of you guys keep on claiming that it's Southwest pilots that are arrogant and egocentric about our representation? Seriously? Dan? Jim? You constantly bitch at us just for saying that we like SWAPA better than ALPA, but never say "boo" to such egotistical and tribalistic BS like this? Gee, I wonder why.

You guys pretending impartiality are funny.

Bubba

 

[scarlet]

NEVER want ALPA again! 12 years=no thanks!

Lets focus on growth, no RJS (unless SWA pilots fly them), 401k to 11-12%, and transfer profit sharing to 401K immediately! Profit Sharing to check or 401K ! Trip trading improved (its 2014 not 1970s), buddy passes electronic, (overnighting passes? 1980s).

 

[Dan Roman]

Again with the, "you need to be ALPA, and no other airline union is good enough." For the 900th time. And the rest of you guys keep on claiming that it's Southwest pilots that are arrogant and egocentric about our representation? Seriously? Dan? Jim? You constantly bitch at us just for saying that we like SWAPA better than ALPA, but never say "boo" to such egotistical and tribalistic BS like this? Gee, I wonder why.

You guys pretending impartiality are funny.

Bubba

Bubba, your mixing up your position, which is quite moderate, to the overall position on this board. This place is choke with SWA pilots calling ALPA "ALPO" , and making all kinds of claims how great SWAPA/SWA is. When someone doesn't agree, they get labeled a SWA hater. SWA is a great airline and for sure the most successful in the LCC niche. No doubt about it. But there is going to be a counterpoint to any claims of superiority. This board is full of SWA folks, so don't take it personally when pilots from other airlines have a different perspective. Personally I ramped up my counterpoint posts when some SWA pilots starting talking "buying Hawaiian" posts. I remember KBB and a few others making some very arrogant posts. I could just as easily (and realistically) said HA was going to buy you and put you on the bottom of our seniority list. You wouldn't like it either. SWA is a great airline, you just taxi too fast! I KID! I KID!

 

[PCL_128]

Again with the, "you need to be ALPA, and no other airline union is good enough." For the 900th time. And the rest of you guys keep on claiming that it's Southwest pilots that are arrogant and egocentric about our representation? Seriously? Dan? Jim? You constantly bitch at us just for saying that we like SWAPA better than ALPA, but never say "boo" to such egotistical and tribalistic BS like this? Gee, I wonder why.

You guys pretending impartiality are funny.

Bubba

I wasn't even talking about you joining ALPA. I don't think that's a realistic possibility until you deal with your first bankruptcy and realize that you're absolutely screwed without real expertise. I'm just talking about joining forces with us to work together instead of always doing your own thing. Your union is so arrogant that you want to pretend that you're equal in stature to ALPA in DC and around the world. You just aren't. You need to learn to work with us instead of apart from us. Richardson taking a trip to Capitol Hill to take selfies with Boehner is pointless. Working alongside ALPA would be productive.

 

[Dan Roman]

NEVER want ALPA again! 12 years=no thanks!

Lets focus on growth, no RJS (unless SWA pilots fly them), 401k to 11-12%, and transfer profit sharing to 401K immediately! Profit Sharing to check or 401K ! Trip trading improved (its 2014 not 1970s), buddy passes electronic, (overnighting passes? 1980s).

I believe most ALPA carriers get 15% 401k why wouldn't you shoot for that?

 

[PCL_128]

I believe most ALPA carriers get 15% 401k why wouldn't you shoot for that?

For the same reason he voted to give away his seniority: no self respect.

 

[Dan Roman]

I wasn't even talking about you joining ALPA. I don't think that's a realistic possibility until you deal with your first bankruptcy and realize that you're absolutely screwed without real expertise. I'm just talking about joining forces with us to work together instead of always doing your own thing. Your union is so arrogant that you want to pretend that you're equal in stature to ALPA in DC and around the world. You just aren't. You need to learn to work with us instead of apart from us. Richardson taking a trip to Capitol Hill to take selfies with Boehner is pointless. Working alongside ALPA would be productive.

I'm guessing PCL has more experience than all of us working with ALPA, so he is, in fact, in a good position to make this call. A SWAPA rep taking selfies with Boehner? Really? That's pretty weak.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah, pcl is the ultimate authority. Just ask him

It's not a selfie with Boener, but holy ********************e is it a ridiculous photo

 

[SWA Bubba]

I'm guessing PCL has more experience than all of us working with ALPA, so he is, in fact, in a good position to make this call. A SWAPA rep taking selfies with Boehner? Really? That's pretty weak.

Well, here I have to disagree with you. PCL has been an actual "airline pilot" (major) only since 2007. His total ALPA experience has been since ALPA replaced their in-house union during their last contract negotiations. Depending on who you believe he is, he actually is ALPA, so he is not in a good position to make this call. His actual job is to be a cheerleader for ALPA; how can you possibly think him objective on the matter? Let me ask you this, Dan: would you think a senior officer in SWAPA would be the best or most objective opinion on whether SWAPA does a better job? I suspect not. Yet you lavish this same label on an ALPA insider, and a literal newbie airline pilot at that. Personally, I would think that pilots who have worked under multiple unions, including decades under ALPA (including several airlines' locals), probably have a better, if not less personally subjective, opinion on the matter.

And by the way, you should stop taking PCL's biased talking points as gospel. You know?

Bubba