No comment on ASA PBS LOA yet?

[Tarzan]

not really sure why that would have to happen. I've also heard that but haven't gotten a good reason. I suspect that we might have to revote with the combined list. I'm willing to risk it but I'm sure ALPA isn't.

There would have to be a vote by the combined pilot group for representation. After only 30% voting for it at OO and the current level of apathy and/or level of dislike for ALPA at ASA do you really think it would pass?

I believe we need one list but not sure how far I am willing to go in giving up my legal protections of what we have now.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

I'm not really disgruntled. I just don't like seeing fellow pilots get conned. It's not so much what the Union has done rather what they haven't done. ALPA has let a lot happen that is not good for the profession. Unfortunately the whole system is based on votes and people will always vote selfishly even though it may end up hurting themselves in the long run. example, relaxing scope.
If the Union wanted to secure growth at ASA they would work to merge us with Skywest. That's the only way growth will come to ASA.

Whether you approve or dissaprove of the work ALPA has done they are our only game in town until voted out. Just as you hold the copmany accountable you must also hold the union accountable that they ARE looking out for our best interest as we pay dues every month in the hopes that they are. How often have you voiced your concerns to your reps? After all, you paid for them to represent you.

The issue of PBS should be nothing new to any of us as this was part of out current contract signed almost three years ago see LOA6. It is smart of the union to seek agreement now as we enter into negotiations in a few months. It is impossible to fill in every "loophole" when something such PBS is implemented. Thus after several months of usage and feedback from us they can make adjustments to the language as needed.

 

[JoeMerchant]

not really sure why that would have to happen. I've also heard that but haven't gotten a good reason. I suspect that we might have to revote with the combined list. I'm willing to risk it but I'm sure ALPA isn't.

A combined ASA/Skywest pilot group would get to vote on who represents them...ALPA isn't pushing for a single list under this situation because they are afraid of losing the ASA pilots too...The vote would be close, and there is a good chance ALPA would lose.

 

[aircombat]

What kind of denial are you in? Many other experienced pilots are saying, Scott Hall said it, yet you continue to believe the furloughs will come back without PBS. All I ask is that you become an expert in common sense. Furloughs will not come back until the pilot group is at the breakpoint in terms of block hrs. When every line is blocked at 90+hrs and all reserves are breaking guarantee with ease then we have a need for pilots.

Last summer we hardly had any offers for premium open-time pickups.

Just wait until the summer and we will be busy again. When premium open-time pickups are offered at all that is a sign of desperation. What are the forecasted total block hours for this summer compared to last summer?
Even if saying no wouldn't bring them back immediately it would without a doubt bring them back sooner.
All this talk about letting them come back to a stronger company is BS. Is saving the company a fraction of a percent worth that many people?

 

[LazyLightnin']

If the language is good... I'm voting yes.

Eat it.

 

[Tarzan]

All this talk about letting them come back to a stronger company is BS. Is saving the company a fraction of a percent worth that many people?

The people who currently have jobs are worth it.

 

[aircombat]

I’m sure that the people at the majors that voted to relax scope said the exact same thing. They are regretting that now. You, just like them, will probably blame the outcome on someone else. No I don’t think that this is as bad for the profession as relaxing scope but anything that requires less pilots isn’t good. I’m sure that the guys that voted scope away didn’t care that they voted your high paying job away.

 

[aircombat]

The people who currently have jobs are worth it.

I don't think you heard me! LESS THAN 1% company savings. I think it's safe to say you haven't been furloughed before.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

100% good points!

-You have imagine all the things which are NOT specially excluded in the agreement. Anything else, the company will absolutely try to get away with.

This whole agreement is nothing more than one major loophole, and a very easy way for SH to slide something into our collective a-hole.

-I'm sure it will pass-we have no shortage of idiots who think SH and BH are on our side. But it will not pass by virtue of MY VOTE-you can bet on that!

We can also bet your whining a$$ will be bitching about every freakin thing that comes down the pike at this company. Ho hum, whats new!

 

[buscap]

Ok people!!

Here's one for ya!! Listen up!!! Only gonna type this once!!!

The PBS cat is already out of the bag!!! The turd has already been crapped!!! Genie out of the bottle!!! Can't unscramble eggs...and all that other crap.

And it's all way past the tipping point. We ain't reversing this industry trend. Now we can sit here and fight it...all by our freakin selves...with our high costs and most likely shrinking pot of flying.

Or we can jack the bar up just a little with the best PBS system, contract language and work rules.

You guys need to talk to some folks about the PBS LOA. Not one pilot group out there, regional or mainline, has anything like we are considering. And the reason for that is because most of them got PBS at the point of a spear.

Yeah this ain't great, but we need to take a close look at the opportunity here. This may be our last best chance to control the screwing.

We keep our costs high and I'll bet a brand new pair of mormon long-johns Mr. A will just plain fak us into the trash pile of oblivion.

In no way does that man want us to be the cheapest out there. He is no idiot and knows very much who he is dealing with. But he will do what any sharp businessman would in this situation.

He's got two airlines with very different operational ledgers. Do the math people!! Besides, I believe if approved, the LOA will result in the Flightline system migrating over to the Skywest side, which will raise their costs slightly, much to our benefit.

 

[OCP]

What are all these nay sayers afraid of? What are you going to lose with PBS? The only thing you can say is you think that somehow voting now will bring back the 130 or so on the street. It may, it may not. But the same is with PBS. Isn't it worth the gamble in the long run to possibly get new flying resulting from an ability to compete more effectively? Like has been said before, ASA gets no savings from this deal unless they are able to grow the company with it.

 

[Tarzan]

I don't think you heard me! LESS THAN 1% company savings. I think it's safe to say you haven't been furloughed before.

In a market that sees the lower profit margins, a million here and there makes a difference.

I've lost jobs before. Not in this industry but this isn't my first aviation job either. I've done my share of crappy jobs that required a large amount of sweat and blistered hands. I've done my share of pulling guard in a wet, cold hole at 0300. If you believe I am a slick faced kid with no perspective, you are mistaken. I've had my share of ups and downs. I've seen a job that paid $75K a year evaporate except there were no call backs for that one. So please, don't become sanctimonious as some of us here have borne our share of difficult times.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Ok people!!

Here's one for ya!! Listen up!!! Only gonna type this once!!!

The PBS cat is already out of the bag!!! The turd has already been crapped!!! Genie out of the bottle!!! Can't unscramble eggs...and all that other crap.

And it's all way past the tipping point. We ain't reversing this industry trend. Now we can sit here and fight it...all by our freakin selves...with our high costs and most likely shrinking pot of flying.

Or we can jack the bar up just a little with the best PBS system, contract language and work rules.

You guys need to talk to some folks about the PBS LOA. Not one pilot group out there, regional or mainline, has anything like we are considering. And the reason for that is because most of them got PBS at the point of a spear.

Yeah this ain't great, but we need to take a close look at the opportunity here. This may be our last best chance to control the screwing.

We keep our costs high and I'll bet a brand new pair of mormon long-johns Mr. A will just plain fak us into the trash pile of oblivion.

In no way does that man want us to be the cheapest out there. He is no idiot and knows very much who he is dealing with. But he will do what any sharp businessman would in this situation.

He's got two airlines with very different operational ledgers. Do the math people!! Besides, I believe if approved, the LOA will result in the Flightline system migrating over to the Skywest side, which will raise their costs slightly, much to our benefit.

Ahhhh, the sooner everybody realizes this , the better off we'll all be!
Of course, we'll always have our same old whiners and cry babies!
Everyone knows who they are.

 

[aircombat]

What do we have to lose? Only the sole bargaining chip we have for contract negotiations. For Christmas I’m giving the Union the ability to use PBS in our favor.
I hear people saying that we should vote it in and use these few months until next contract negotiations as a trial period. That is true but that makes it sound like we will have a new contract in a few months. Clearly you don’t remember how long the last round took. There will be flaws. Even if you are one of the few that will read the LOA from start to finish you will not be able to find all the loopholes. The company will find them and then have no motivation to sign a new contract.
In 4 years if I hear you complaining about how long the negotiations are taking I will simply ask you if you voted yes on PBS. If you say yes I will just laugh.

 

[aircombat]

Ahhhh, the sooner everybody realizes this , the better off we'll all be!
Of course, we'll always have our same old whiners and cry babies!
Everyone knows who they are.

I fully agree that PBS is inevitability. Just don’t hand it over on a silver platter. Vote no and let the union use it as leverage for the next contract. And don’t chew your foot off trying to undercut Skywest. Really who is going to win that battle?