No arbitration in SWA and F9 deal

[Bookingsareup]

Our SWAPA Pres stated yesterday that SW pilots will get to vote on any agreement reached between F9 and SWAPA. I would assume that all the F9 pilots would get to vote also. Basically it will come down to a choice between WN and Replublic.

There is no "CHOICE" for the pilots when it comes to SW vs RH! Can we get past this!! The pilots and employees will be TOLD who owns them.

 

[airlinepilot]

Yes there is a choice. The SWA bid will say that SWAPA and F9 pilots have to reach a signed and sealed agreement. If the F9 pilots reject the staple then they have by voting rejected SWA and selected Replublic.

 

[Cometman]

There is no "CHOICE" for the pilots when it comes to SW vs RH! Can we get past this!! The pilots and employees will be TOLD who owns them.

If F9 agrees with SWAPA and SWA wins the bid the deal goes through if approved by the court. However, if F9 doesn't agree with SWAPA, then SWA states they will not go forward with their bid. Then the only bid would be Republic. Does the court go with them or do they close the doors and seel everything off?

 

[shootr]

Maybe because this is the same thing that was told to the NWA and DAL pilots.

Can somebody from DAL/NWA clear this part up. Did your 2 groups not come to an agreement on your own?

 

[spiffomatic]

You are on life support. You should be excited to be able to get off of it and have a job with SWA. Yes, there is a possiblilty that some F9 pilots will be out in the street for a while.

And you guys want to pull the plug. Let's face it, SWA (at least the people expressing their opinions here) doesn't want arbitration because the result could actually be fair for both parties. Combined SWA/F9 will likely be smaller for a while before it may get bigger - it's not like there are tons of new markets to easily expand into and SWA cost structure ain't what it used to be. That ship has sailed, and I'm not sure I'd want to be on the very bottom of that likely shrinking seniority list when fuel hedging isn't there to make everything else insignificant.

It's an interesting contrast to RAH, a company with an unique business model and an F9 opportunity for a far more fair integration - Amongst some of the high and low-time backgrounds, RAH has quite a number of people with hours at a number of different airlines, J4J who've remained here, and those who have done their 20yrs flying in the military - but there's a broad appreciation for what F9 brings to the table and it won't be pushed aside. As much as the RAH contract and pay needs significant improvement, there's enough momentum here for large gains in both, and a new union leadership poised to make sure that happens. Equally recognized here is that F9's current payscales for the Airbus are viable and can be improved upon, and that a relatively reasonable bar has been set with respect to 190 pay with jetBlue's new scale.

For those at RAH who worked DEN E-170 flying for F9 until last year, it was the best thing going that most could remember doing while with the company, and there's no question that 99.9% went the extra mile to save fuel and create a positive customer experience in an attempt to keep F9 going.

The concept of a combined F9, Midwest and Mokulele (& Lynx) operation, with strong local appeal and devoted following, and a single combined seniority list with a reasonable integration (& fences, etc) seems like both a viable business plan and a chance at a strong pilot group with good negotiation leverage.

If nothing else, I wish the F9 pilots a fair and reasonable integration into SWA, who should remember where they came from and probably consider not charging the F9ers for a type rating. Otherwise, I'm confident that you'll be welcome with open arms into RAH.

 

[NuGuy]

Can somebody from DAL/NWA clear this part up. Did your 2 groups not come to an agreement on your own?

Heyas,

The short answer is "no".

DAL management was frothing at the mouth for the NWA deal. In an attempt to steamroller the process, they threw some trinkets at the DAL pilots, and SAID "we won't do the deal unless there is a contract AND a SLI agreement in place".

The DAL MEC thought they were going to ROTFLstomp the NWA MEC into a lopsided agreement, but the NWA guys dug their heels in and said "uh, no, it's going to be fair".

A joint contract WAS agreed to, but, predictably, the SLI wasn't. When this fell apart, DAL management "said" the deal was off.

Of note, during this time, a VERY loud contingent of "anti-merger" DAL pilots were preparing to recall all of the Council 44 reps over their support of the merger. I put that in quotes because, from the NWA side, it is unknown whether they were really anti-merger, or simply using that as a platform to scare guys into recalling the LEC 44 reps. With the merger boogyman gone, their platform evaporated, and the recall failed. But that whole thing was just a sideshow.

Fast forward a few weeks, and in one of the worst kept secrets of aviation, DAL announced they were doing the merger deal ANYWAY, and basically told the pilots to work things out. Of course, the DAL and NWA MECs were already up to speed, so it begs the question if the deal was really "off" at any point.

After some weeks of pointless negotiating, the SLI went to arbitration. During this time, you heard some pretty outlandish stuff from both sides.

Originally Posted by Cometman
You are on life support. You should be excited to be able to get off of it and have a job with SWA.

The NWA guys heard ALOT of this bovine excrement during the merger. It was spammed by all of the party line parrots. Ignore it. It's just noise.

I'm sure my good friend FDJ will have a slightly different perspective on the events, but suffice to say we've put aside our differences, and now work towards what's best for the entire group.

My advice to the F9 guys: You're worth more than you think. Don't listen to the other side, and negotiate what's best for you. Fact is, if the deal is worth doing now, it's worth doing no matter what. Fact is, if SWA DOESN'T do the deal, it isn't just a zero sum, where things remain status quo, but rather, a dangerous new competitor infuses an airline that has given SWA fits with a lot of cash, a lot feed, and a potential 2nd hub in MKE. There is a HUGE, expensive downside for SWA not doing this. Use that fact to your advantage

My advice to the SWA guys: Don't believe your own press.


Nu

 

[firstthird]

There are worlds of differences between DAL/NWA and SWA/F9. any reasonable observer already knows most of them so I won't repeat the obvious.

M&As are messy. F9 is 'lucky' enough to have two bids pending.

 

[waveflyer]

I think there are a lot of guys expressing their own self interest. Spiffomatic- that was well worded- but it smells like you like the possibility of F9 being on your list than on SWAs. Of course you do. But for frontier pilots- really, what is the better option? W/ rah how will your relationship w/ mgmt change? How will your control over your destiny? Either way- you're being acquired by airlines that have Far more pilots than you do- and therefore have democratic super majorities.

I just think Swa is a much better option. For culture and work environment. For QOL. Schedules. Pay. All-around. As long as you get on the Swa list- it's hard to see how you lose.

 

[MILPILOT17]

Heyas,

The short answer is "no".

DAL management was frothing at the mouth for the NWA deal. In an attempt to steamroller the process, they threw some trinkets at the DAL pilots, and SAID "we won't do the deal unless there is a contract AND a SLI agreement in place".

The DAL MEC thought they were going to ROTFLstomp the NWA MEC into a lopsided agreement, but the NWA guys dug their heels in and said "uh, no, it's going to be fair".

A joint contract WAS agreed to, but, predictably, the SLI wasn't. When this fell apart, DAL management "said" the deal was off.

Of note, during this time, a VERY loud contingent of "anti-merger" DAL pilots were preparing to recall all of the Council 44 reps over their support of the merger. I put that in quotes because, from the NWA side, it is unknown whether they were really anti-merger, or simply using that as a platform to scare guys into recalling the LEC 44 reps. With the merger boogyman gone, their platform evaporated, and the recall failed. But that whole thing was just a sideshow.

Fast forward a few weeks, and in one of the worst kept secrets of aviation, DAL announced they were doing the merger deal ANYWAY, and basically told the pilots to work things out. Of course, the DAL and NWA MECs were already up to speed, so it begs the question if the deal was really "off" at any point.

After some weeks of pointless negotiating, the SLI went to arbitration. During this time, you heard some pretty outlandish stuff from both sides.

Originally Posted by Cometman
You are on life support. You should be excited to be able to get off of it and have a job with SWA.

The NWA guys heard ALOT of this bovine excrement during the merger. It was spammed by all of the party line parrots. Ignore it. It's just noise.

I'm sure my good friend FDJ will have a slightly different perspective on the events, but suffice to say we've put aside our differences, and now work towards what's best for the entire group.

My advice to the F9 guys: You're worth more than you think. Don't listen to the other side, and negotiate what's best for you. Fact is, if the deal is worth doing now, it's worth doing no matter what. Fact is, if SWA DOESN'T do the deal, it isn't just a zero sum, where things remain status quo, but rather, a dangerous new competitor infuses an airline that has given SWA fits with a lot of cash, a lot feed, and a potential 2nd hub in MKE. There is a HUGE, expensive downside for SWA not doing this. Use that fact to your advantage

My advice to the SWA guys: Don't believe your own press.


Nu

Nice post! Thanks for the insight.

 

[slaquer5]

Heyas,

.

My advice to the F9 guys: You're worth more than you think. Don't listen to the other side, and negotiate what's best for you. Fact is, if the deal is worth doing now, it's worth doing no matter what. Fact is, if SWA DOESN'T do the deal, it isn't just a zero sum, where things remain status quo, but rather, a dangerous new competitor infuses an airline that has given SWA fits with a lot of cash, a lot feed, and a potential 2nd hub in MKE. There is a HUGE, expensive downside for SWA not doing this. Use that fact to your advantage

My advice to the SWA guys: Don't believe your own press.


Nu

Thats some good advise for someone that has no skin in the game. If your advise does not pan out are you going to compensate the F9 guys.

I think your the same guy that was saying buy GM at 40 bucks a share.