No arbitration in SWA and F9 deal

airlinepilot

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Just finished listening to SWAPA teleconference. SWAPA Pres. made a very clear statement. Said there would not let this go to arbitration. He said if SWAPA could not reach a good deal then they would shoot the deal down. Hope this ends all the chit-chat on here about arbitration.
 

Lake Alice

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If SWAPA agrees to arbitration then F9 pilots would get binding arbitration and a fair seniority integration. Why would any SWAPA pilot want that.
 

FDJ2

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If SWAPA agrees to arbitration then F9 pilots would get binding arbitration and a fair seniority integration. Why would any SWAPA pilot want that.
They may have no choice if SWA proceeds with the acquisition. Hopefully a fair and equitable integrated list can be achieved through negotiations.
 

airlinepilot

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What was said during the teleconference was that SWAPA would never allow this to go to arbitration. IF they could not work out a satisfactory deal between our pilots and the F9 pilots (which we would all vote on) then SWAPA would kill the deal upfront. Carl also said our first priority was the our contract and getting that done. Clearly we have more leverage now that Gary wants the F9 deal.
 

shootr

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SWA has stated publicly that they will not proceed without the agreement in place. I choose to believe them, perhaps with too much trust. Regardless, it is trust management has earned from me despite SWAPA/SWA differences, as of late.

shootr
 

Lake Alice

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This is very simple. No SWAPA pilot will vote for a contract which will adversely affect their seniority. As F9 is in bankruptcy the SWAPA terms will be favorable to SWAPA in every way except that the F9 pilots will retain their jobs, all be it at the bottom of the SWA list. Don't kid your selves.

The F9 pilots have to decide if it would be better to be stapled to the SWA list or risk another integration with the likes of a regional carrier.
 

FDJ2

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IF they could not work out a satisfactory deal between our pilots and the F9 pilots (which we would all vote on) then SWAPA would kill the deal upfront.
How does SWAPA intend to "kill the deal upfront"? Does SWA need SWAPA's permission to acquire F9?
 

climb2slow

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Technically, no, but it sounds like for the sake of keeping their culture intact, that Gary Kelly has stated that he wants F9, but not at the expense of losing the support of his pilots. So it sounds like they do in fact have the ability to 'kill the deal'.
 

airlinepilot

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I would hope that all the F9 guys and gals get to vote on this also. It would be nice to have consensus!
 

Voice Of Reason

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How does SWAPA intend to "kill the deal upfront"? Does SWA need SWAPA's permission to acquire F9?
Exactly...sounds like an inflated view of their importance to management...Herbie is long gone, remember that. They aren't going to "kill" a deal mgt wants just because the SW pilots have a hissy fit. Mark.My.Words.
 

Cometman

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SWA can buy F9 and do what it wants to do with the airline. They cannot keep the airline because of the contract with SWAPA. That means if they buy them and there is no agreement then it will be taken apart piece by piece just like ATA. F9 people will be out of luck. If F9 agrees to SWAPA's terms then they will at least have a job because it will still be dismantled.

F9 has 3 choices : The first one is to go with SWA and be thrilled or go with Republic and take a chance. The third choice is to wind up with SWA buying them and they are out in the street with a chance to interview.

The clock is ticking and time is runing out. Take it while you can.
 

FDJ2

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SWA can buy F9 and do what it wants to do with the airline. /QUOTE]

Sure they can do that with the airline, just not the employees. New Federal law prevents it. If SWA buys F9 there will be a fair and equitable integration, either negotiated or arbitrated.

Not sure why SWAPA is against fair and equitable treatment of the F9 pilots, they'll all eventually be SWA pilots. The best course forward for SWAPA is to treat them fairly from the start.
 
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Cometman

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SWA can buy F9 and do what it wants to do with the airline. /QUOTE]

Sure they can do that with the airline, just not the employees. New Federal law prevents it. If SWA buys F9 there will be a fair and equitable integration, either negotiated or arbitrated.

Not sure why SWAPA is against fair and equitable treatment of the F9 pilots, they'll all eventually be SWA pilots. The best course forwardfor SWAPA is to treat them fairly from the start.
I think the federal law says that if multiple carriers join together to operate as one AND AND AND they buy or acquire more than 50% of their assests. Swa can buy and operrate as seperate carriers just like F9 does now with Lynx. The only thing that stops SWA from doing that is their contract. So, SWA would have to dismantel F9.

F9 does not derserve to jump over any SWA pilot. They are lucky to be offered a job. Let me say, I am not a pilot with SWA. I could only wish I had the same chance as F9 will have.

If they had to do anything other than staple would not LYNX be intitled to the same thing?
 

fiel12

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How are all those Morris Air guys doing?
Every one of the several that I've flown with say they are really happy to be here. I even did my IOE with a former Morris guy. Great guy.
 

FDJ2

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1853133 said:
I think the federal law says that if multiple carriers join together to operate as one AND AND AND they buy or acquire more than 50% of their assests. Swa can buy and operrate as seperate carriers just like F9 does now with Lynx. The only thing that stops SWA from doing that is their contract. So, SWA would have to dismantel F9.
IAW the FAPA PWA Southwest would be obligated to merge the pilot groups, it also appears that the SWA PWA would also require it.

A-M LPPs will ultimately govern the seniority integration with the goal of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list.

Has SWAPA spooled up its merger committee, if not they are already behind. Things will happen quick.
 

NuGuy

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Heyas,

I would listen to FDJ on these matters...he's had recent experience with all of them.

UNLESS SWAPA can legally kill any deal, then I'd say if F9 is bought, this has an excellent chance of going to arbitration if a negotiated deal doesn't happen.

If it's SUCH a good deal, SWA would be obliged to follow through, with, or without pilot approval. It sounds like F9 really rocks in the market they're in, and is a real impediment to SWA in DEN.

We've all heard "oh, we won't follow through if the pilot's aren't on board" crap before. A few weeks later it's "It's too good a deal to let go....you guys work something out, but we're going ahead anyway".

IF I were at F9, I wouldn't be bullied. I'd hold out for a fair integration, or tell them to pound sand, and continue having better loads, better fare premiums and more market share in a market SWA deperately wants to dominate, but can't. The law is on their side.

Nu
 

Cometman

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Heyas,

I would listen to FDJ on these matters...he's had recent experience with all of them.

UNLESS SWAPA can legally kill any deal, then I'd say if F9 is bought, this has an excellent chance of going to arbitration if a negotiated deal doesn't happen.

If it's SUCH a good deal, SWA would be obliged to follow through, with, or without pilot approval. It sounds like F9 really rocks in the market they're in, and is a real impediment to SWA in DEN.

We've all heard "oh, we won't follow through if the pilot's aren't on board" crap before. A few weeks later it's "It's too good a deal to let go....you guys work something out, but we're going ahead anyway".

IF I were at F9, I wouldn't be bullied. I'd hold out for a fair integration, or tell them to pound sand, and continue having better loads, better fare premiums and more market share in a market SWA deperately wants to dominate, but can't. The law is on their side.

Nu
Since you think they should fight this thing I guess they should listen to you. I assume you know what you are talking about. I think I need to change my mind and go along with you. F9 should fight it and demand to be treated better. After all they are only in Chapter 11 and they made money for a few quarters. Gived me a break. They are either going to be stapled or go with republic. Then when it is all over they can go back to you and complain.
 

Cometman

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Heyas,

I would listen to FDJ on these matters...he's had recent experience with all of them.

UNLESS SWAPA can legally kill any deal, then I'd say if F9 is bought, this has an excellent chance of going to arbitration if a negotiated deal doesn't happen.

If it's SUCH a good deal, SWA would be obliged to follow through, with, or without pilot approval. It sounds like F9 really rocks in the market they're in, and is a real impediment to SWA in DEN.

We've all heard "oh, we won't follow through if the pilot's aren't on board" crap before. A few weeks later it's "It's too good a deal to let go....you guys work something out, but we're going ahead anyway".

IF I were at F9, I wouldn't be bullied. I'd hold out for a fair integration, or tell them to pound sand, and continue having better loads, better fare premiums and more market share in a market SWA deperately wants to dominate, but can't. The law is on their side.

Nu
Come back when it is over and then tell the F9 pilots they should have accepted the offer.
 
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