No arbitration in SWA and F9 deal

[FDJ2]

I think the federal law says that if multiple carriers join together to operate as one AND AND AND they buy or acquire more than 50% of their assests. Swa can buy and operrate as seperate carriers just like F9 does now with Lynx. The only thing that stops SWA from doing that is their contract. So, SWA would have to dismantel F9.

IAW the FAPA PWA Southwest would be obligated to merge the pilot groups, it also appears that the SWA PWA would also require it.

A-M LPPs will ultimately govern the seniority integration with the goal of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list.

Has SWAPA spooled up its merger committee, if not they are already behind. Things will happen quick.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I would listen to FDJ on these matters...he's had recent experience with all of them.

UNLESS SWAPA can legally kill any deal, then I'd say if F9 is bought, this has an excellent chance of going to arbitration if a negotiated deal doesn't happen.

If it's SUCH a good deal, SWA would be obliged to follow through, with, or without pilot approval. It sounds like F9 really rocks in the market they're in, and is a real impediment to SWA in DEN.

We've all heard "oh, we won't follow through if the pilot's aren't on board" crap before. A few weeks later it's "It's too good a deal to let go....you guys work something out, but we're going ahead anyway".

IF I were at F9, I wouldn't be bullied. I'd hold out for a fair integration, or tell them to pound sand, and continue having better loads, better fare premiums and more market share in a market SWA deperately wants to dominate, but can't. The law is on their side.

Nu

 

[Cometman]

Heyas,

I would listen to FDJ on these matters...he's had recent experience with all of them.

UNLESS SWAPA can legally kill any deal, then I'd say if F9 is bought, this has an excellent chance of going to arbitration if a negotiated deal doesn't happen.

If it's SUCH a good deal, SWA would be obliged to follow through, with, or without pilot approval. It sounds like F9 really rocks in the market they're in, and is a real impediment to SWA in DEN.

We've all heard "oh, we won't follow through if the pilot's aren't on board" crap before. A few weeks later it's "It's too good a deal to let go....you guys work something out, but we're going ahead anyway".

IF I were at F9, I wouldn't be bullied. I'd hold out for a fair integration, or tell them to pound sand, and continue having better loads, better fare premiums and more market share in a market SWA deperately wants to dominate, but can't. The law is on their side.

Nu

Since you think they should fight this thing I guess they should listen to you. I assume you know what you are talking about. I think I need to change my mind and go along with you. F9 should fight it and demand to be treated better. After all they are only in Chapter 11 and they made money for a few quarters. Gived me a break. They are either going to be stapled or go with republic. Then when it is all over they can go back to you and complain.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Has SWAPA spooled up its merger committee, if not they are already behind. Things will happen quick.

Yes, and have been working together for 18 months.

Dick

 

[Cometman]

Heyas,

I would listen to FDJ on these matters...he's had recent experience with all of them.

UNLESS SWAPA can legally kill any deal, then I'd say if F9 is bought, this has an excellent chance of going to arbitration if a negotiated deal doesn't happen.

If it's SUCH a good deal, SWA would be obliged to follow through, with, or without pilot approval. It sounds like F9 really rocks in the market they're in, and is a real impediment to SWA in DEN.

We've all heard "oh, we won't follow through if the pilot's aren't on board" crap before. A few weeks later it's "It's too good a deal to let go....you guys work something out, but we're going ahead anyway".

IF I were at F9, I wouldn't be bullied. I'd hold out for a fair integration, or tell them to pound sand, and continue having better loads, better fare premiums and more market share in a market SWA deperately wants to dominate, but can't. The law is on their side.

Nu

Come back when it is over and then tell the F9 pilots they should have accepted the offer.

 

[vixin]

I dont think we will staple F9 guys. I also dont think it will be relitive senority. F9 guys are dreaming if they think that. Sorry fair and equitalbe with pilots who's choice is to be out of business or flying for a low paying regional should not be intergrated relatively. I am all for being nice but the F9 pilots need to realize what SWA and SWAPA are doing for them. These idiots that keep harping B&M A&M are in dreamland to think this will give them rights to better senority then guys who have been here 30 years or even 10years. It will get worked out. I think most of the F9ers are smarter then the small pool on FI. AS well as the wonderful SWA guys that just think it will be a staple beacause that isnt happening either.

I am a SWA pilot and dont believe it should be a complete staple. I do believe however we should get some benefit and come out on the positive side a little. We are after all giving the F9ers a better, more secure career. That has to be worth something.

 

[roughneck]

Swapa will have a legally binding way to stop the deal. The binding offer will have a contengency requiring a labor agreement between the pilot groups prior to closing of the transaction.

That is how the Swapa president can say with all certainty that this will not go to arbitration. We either come to agreement or the deal is off.

 

[ultrarunner]

If I were in charge of spending the shareholders money, I'd hang out till the liquidation. I think a better return on the investment could be had.

 

[Daddy]

Cometman has it right, FDJ2 is off

I do not think anything except a straight staple with pay protection will pass SWAPA period. If F9 had better options, then it might be different, but I think most would just say "Forget it, let's walk away then." SWA needs SWAPA permission to operate F9 separately under the current contract and I believe SWAPA will try to settle with a staple first to secure the deal and if not, then just let the company buy F9 and then draw it down. I think SWAPA will make every effort to get jobs for the FAPA pilots short of giving them seniority, but if they do not take the deal then they will be left to chance. If they take it they will get pay protection, better benefits, 401K, etc...pretty easy choice given the options. JMHO

 

[ultrarunner]

Swapa will have a legally binding way to stop the deal. The binding offer will have a contengency requiring a labor agreement between the pilot groups prior to closing of the transaction.

That is how the Swapa president can say with all certainty that this will not go to arbitration. We either come to agreement or the deal is off.

That's the way to do it. Give the F9 folks the option of joining the list, or take your chances with RAH.

If I were at F9 and my options were getting stapled to SWAPA, getting in bed with RAH, or going to a liquidation hearing, it's a no-brainer!

 

[ultrarunner]

Daddy's right on...when facing liquidation, you really have no options. Not that it's the fault of the pilot group, it's just the luck of the draw.

But think of it this way, here is F9, facing a possible liquidation, and they may actually have a choice!

I know it sounds like bullying tactics on the part of SWA, but SWA is successful in large part due to the work ethic of SWAPA and their working relationship with management. No reason any of SWAPA should be penalized for that. IMHO.

 

[Bookingsareup]

That's the way to do it. Give the F9 folks the option of joining the list, or take your chances with RAH.

If I were at F9 and my options were getting stapled to SWAPA, getting in bed with RAH, or going to a liquidation hearing, it's a no-brainer!

F9 folks do not have any "option" in the BK process. F9 pilots, or employees for that matter, have absolutely no say in who will "win" the bid.

 

[FDJ2]

Daddy's right on...when facing liquidation, you really have no options. Not that it's the fault of the pilot group, it's just the luck of the draw.

But think of it this way, here is F9, facing a possible liquidation, and they may actually have a choice!

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[FDJ2]

F9 folks do not have any "option" in the BK process. F9 pilots, or employees for that matter, have absolutely no say in who will "win" the bid.

Do they have a vote on the creditors committee? Who else in on that committee?

At DAL 2 out 3 of the largest creditors were Boeing and the Delta pilots, how did that work out for Parker's (buys a lot of Airbusi) $10B offer to buy DAL?

 

[FDJ2]

Cometman has it right, FDJ2 is off

I do not think anything except a straight staple with pay protection will pass SWAPA period.

I have little doubt that SWAPA wants to staple F9 pilots, but I also have little doubt that at the end of the day SWAPA will have little say in the acquisition and if F9 is acquired that the Bond-McCaskill bill will mandate A-M LPPs.

The only argument I've heard from those who think SWAPA will dictate the terms of the acquisition is based on the belief that SWA management makes are business decisions based on whether or not they have SWAPA's seal of approval.