No arbitration in SWA and F9 deal

[vixin]

I dont think we will staple F9 guys. I also dont think it will be relitive senority. F9 guys are dreaming if they think that. Sorry fair and equitalbe with pilots who's choice is to be out of business or flying for a low paying regional should not be intergrated relatively. I am all for being nice but the F9 pilots need to realize what SWA and SWAPA are doing for them. These idiots that keep harping B&M A&M are in dreamland to think this will give them rights to better senority then guys who have been here 30 years or even 10years. It will get worked out. I think most of the F9ers are smarter then the small pool on FI. AS well as the wonderful SWA guys that just think it will be a staple beacause that isnt happening either.

I am a SWA pilot and dont believe it should be a complete staple. I do believe however we should get some benefit and come out on the positive side a little. We are after all giving the F9ers a better, more secure career. That has to be worth something.

 

[roughneck]

Swapa will have a legally binding way to stop the deal. The binding offer will have a contengency requiring a labor agreement between the pilot groups prior to closing of the transaction.

That is how the Swapa president can say with all certainty that this will not go to arbitration. We either come to agreement or the deal is off.

 

[ultrarunner]

If I were in charge of spending the shareholders money, I'd hang out till the liquidation. I think a better return on the investment could be had.

 

[Daddy]

Cometman has it right, FDJ2 is off

I do not think anything except a straight staple with pay protection will pass SWAPA period. If F9 had better options, then it might be different, but I think most would just say "Forget it, let's walk away then." SWA needs SWAPA permission to operate F9 separately under the current contract and I believe SWAPA will try to settle with a staple first to secure the deal and if not, then just let the company buy F9 and then draw it down. I think SWAPA will make every effort to get jobs for the FAPA pilots short of giving them seniority, but if they do not take the deal then they will be left to chance. If they take it they will get pay protection, better benefits, 401K, etc...pretty easy choice given the options. JMHO

 

[ultrarunner]

Swapa will have a legally binding way to stop the deal. The binding offer will have a contengency requiring a labor agreement between the pilot groups prior to closing of the transaction.

That is how the Swapa president can say with all certainty that this will not go to arbitration. We either come to agreement or the deal is off.

That's the way to do it. Give the F9 folks the option of joining the list, or take your chances with RAH.

If I were at F9 and my options were getting stapled to SWAPA, getting in bed with RAH, or going to a liquidation hearing, it's a no-brainer!

 

[ultrarunner]

Daddy's right on...when facing liquidation, you really have no options. Not that it's the fault of the pilot group, it's just the luck of the draw.

But think of it this way, here is F9, facing a possible liquidation, and they may actually have a choice!

I know it sounds like bullying tactics on the part of SWA, but SWA is successful in large part due to the work ethic of SWAPA and their working relationship with management. No reason any of SWAPA should be penalized for that. IMHO.

 

[Bookingsareup]

That's the way to do it. Give the F9 folks the option of joining the list, or take your chances with RAH.

If I were at F9 and my options were getting stapled to SWAPA, getting in bed with RAH, or going to a liquidation hearing, it's a no-brainer!

F9 folks do not have any "option" in the BK process. F9 pilots, or employees for that matter, have absolutely no say in who will "win" the bid.

 

[FDJ2]

Daddy's right on...when facing liquidation, you really have no options. Not that it's the fault of the pilot group, it's just the luck of the draw.

But think of it this way, here is F9, facing a possible liquidation, and they may actually have a choice!

Liquidation?

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[FDJ2]

F9 folks do not have any "option" in the BK process. F9 pilots, or employees for that matter, have absolutely no say in who will "win" the bid.

Do they have a vote on the creditors committee? Who else in on that committee?

At DAL 2 out 3 of the largest creditors were Boeing and the Delta pilots, how did that work out for Parker's (buys a lot of Airbusi) $10B offer to buy DAL?

 

[FDJ2]

Cometman has it right, FDJ2 is off

I do not think anything except a straight staple with pay protection will pass SWAPA period.

I have little doubt that SWAPA wants to staple F9 pilots, but I also have little doubt that at the end of the day SWAPA will have little say in the acquisition and if F9 is acquired that the Bond-McCaskill bill will mandate A-M LPPs.

The only argument I've heard from those who think SWAPA will dictate the terms of the acquisition is based on the belief that SWA management makes are business decisions based on whether or not they have SWAPA's seal of approval.

 

[Tanker Clown]

FDJ2,

Thanks for the F9 info. With reports like that, they must have a ton of offers to get out of Ch 11. You should be a Ch 11 expert, being a Delta guy and all.

 

[shootr]

Decisions...no. This decision...it would seem so. For what it's worth, SWAPA and FAPA have already had post announcement meetings and SWAPA officials seem to be happy with where FAPA is coming from. They have been in communication about this very thing for over a year.

 

[starchkr]

All of you who keep talking baout voting on what SWAPA comes up with for an integration do realize that a deal MUST be reached by the 10th right? It's now the 5th...do you have anything to vote on yet? I would bet that your management WILL go through with a purchase if they want to no matter what the pilot group thinks or says, since there are only 5 days remaining before the auction takes place.

Also, how many of you know what the RAH plan is for F9? Why do you think a SWA deal may be better than the RAH deal? I have heard what is planned for the company should RAH win...fences, planes, staffing, etc...not sure if i can exactly share them, but they sound a little better than the "hired as needed" plan that SWA has put forth so far. That could change though in the next few days, so we will have to see.

Also, like has been said, the employees at F9 do not get a very big say in which deal gets taken. We can agree to everything you SWA pilots want, and you still may lose the auction because of the Unsecured Creditors Committee and the judge. Again! RAH holds the largest say outside the judge as to which bid gets accpeted since they are number one on the UCC. We'll have to wait until the 11th to see, so really, right now bickering over seniority is pretty moot.

 

[Cometman]

All of you who keep talking baout voting on what SWAPA comes up with for an integration do realize that a deal MUST be reached by the 10th right? It's now the 5th...do you have anything to vote on yet? I would bet that your management WILL go through with a purchase if they want to no matter what the pilot group thinks or says, since there are only 5 days remaining before the auction takes place.

Also, how many of you know what the RAH plan is for F9? Why do you think a SWA deal may be better than the RAH deal? I have heard what is planned for the company should RAH win...fences, planes, staffing, etc...not sure if i can exactly share them, but they sound a little better than the "hired as needed" plan that SWA has put forth so far. That could change though in the next few days, so we will have to see.

Also, like has been said, the employees at F9 do not get a very big say in which deal gets taken. We can agree to everything you SWA pilots want, and you still may lose the auction because of the Unsecured Creditors Committee and the judge. Again! RAH holds the largest say outside the judge as to which bid gets accpeted since they are number one on the UCC. We'll have to wait until the 11th to see, so really, right now bickering over seniority is pretty moot.

First of all if SWA wins do you really need to decide which company would be better for you. Being at the bottom with the pay and benefits would be the best choice. If SWA wins and you don't like the deal SWAPA offered, don't take it.

 

[U2DRVR]

All of you who keep talking baout voting on what SWAPA comes up with for an integration do realize that a deal MUST be reached by the 10th right?

RAH holds the largest say outside the judge as to which bid gets accpeted since they are number one on the UCC.

Both incorrect

SWA will structure their bid such that the deal will not close unless and until labor agreements are reached. The deal is not likely to close until the end of the year. The auction will end on the 17th and then SWAPA and FAPA will have at least 30-45 days to come to an agreement. What they agree to will depend heavily on the details of how the purchase is structured.

RAH will not have a vote because they are a bidder and are legally obligated to recuse themselves from the decision.

 

[Tanker Clown]

I may be no legal scholar, but I can only assume that since RAH is on the board of creditors, they must recuse themselves from the proceedings.

 

[koko nw]

I have little doubt that SWAPA wants to staple F9 pilots, but I also have little doubt that at the end of the day SWAPA will have little say in the acquisition and if F9 is acquired that the Bond-McCaskill bill will mandate A-M LPPs.

UOTE]
I beg to differ as the man said a couple of postings ago

"Swapa will have a legally binding way to stop the deal. The binding offer will have a contengency requiring a labor agreement between the pilot groups prior to closing of the transaction.

That is how the Swapa president can say with all certainty that this will not go to arbitration. We either come to agreement or the deal is off"

You may be right about having to integrate them but what's to stop them from furloughing them later on? Isn't that what's being proposed at big D if not enough folks take the early out? You can't honestly believeyou folks are going to keep all the Delta and NWA's boys and girls are you with all your capacity reductions and "synergy" effects?

Remember this company ain't run like yours. The puzzle palace folks actually give a rats behind about their employees and it's culture. It might suprise you but they actually do listen to their front line employees.....How novel.

regards

 

[Porch]

As far as the hire as needed thing goes... I'd rather be hired as needed given WN's past hiring numbers, no furloughs & performance... than be at RAH. So you sit on the street for a while getting uneployment and enjoying your family or you get your EMT, volunteer @ the fire dept. We all know that you should have at least 1 year salary in the bank for situations like this... Right? In the long run it would behove the F9'ers. IMFOpinion

 

[starchkr]

First of all if SWA wins do you really need to decide which company would be better for you. Being at the bottom with the pay and benefits would be the best choice. If SWA wins and you don't like the deal SWAPA offered, don't take it.

Ummmmm...if SWA wins, do i really have any choice whatsoever as to which company would be "better"?

 

[starchkr]

Both incorrect

SWA will structure their bid such that the deal will not close unless and until labor agreements are reached. The deal is not likely to close until the end of the year. The auction will end on the 17th and then SWAPA and FAPA will have at least 30-45 days to come to an agreement. What they agree to will depend heavily on the details of how the purchase is structured.

RAH will not have a vote because they are a bidder and are legally obligated to recuse themselves from the decision.

Part one...ok, i understand the idea.

Part two...I guess that would make the pilots the next highest voice on the UCC.