NJA STRONG UNION NEGOTIATOR'S SUMMARY--Part 3

[Hogprint]

The Minister of Misinformation posted:

Where's the data to compare against the company's information?

Read again Minister:

We are without a third party “accounting review”. Yes we are, sure enough. First everyone should know that the Company asked for and the Union agreed to postpone the review throughout the last 30 days. When “BM” says the “Union”, I think he still thinks of that as the Negotiating Committee or the Executive Counsel. He clearly has no idea that the “Union” is the 2200 of you, including the “5% trouble makers” and the “7%” who seem to think life is well. But just as Bill Boisture is a puppet dancing to the string pulls from Woodbridge and maybe even Omaha, we, the Negotiating Committee, are also just employees, and our strings are pulled by our 2200 boss men as well. When we tell the Company that we are not interested in a cursory financial audit, we are telling them that you, the “Union” told us, as late as last week that you don’t care what the survey would reveal, and more importantly, you do not believe the shell game of vendors, third party interests, Marquis, EJM, etc., can be audited anyway. What “BM” didn’t tell you is that when the Company questioned us about the “Financial Audit” on Monday, we responded with an offer to complete such a review, but, it would not be cursory. We told him that any audit that would have any credibility with the “Union” would have to be a very serious forensic audit, that we would not question the math on the books, but rather look for where the profits are spent, who is getting them, and why. Mr. Boisture simply has no stomach for such a review.

Seems Mr. Bill doesn't want to play ball. I wonder why?

 

[FamilyGuy]

The Minister of Misinformation posted:

Read again Minister:

Seems Mr. Bill doesn't want to play ball. I wonder why?

Oh I think Mr. Boisture would be willing to have a 'forensic audit' by a reputable accounting firm.

The more appropriate question is this - is the union willing to spend $12-$15 million on its little treasure hunt and the 4-6 months it requires for a forensic audit?

And then the bonus question - once you get the results and realize that the unions demands are unrealistic and unsustainable, will the union come back down to earth and make REASONABLE requests?

 

[h25b]

The information posted here is very interesting. Unfortunately, it changes nothing at the negotiating table.

It sounds like the company is more than willing to try and outlast a strike rather than give in to the entire list of demands. While the wisdom of that is questionable, I'd have to say it's a fact...

You've been lied to, get over it... Happens every day in the real world... I'm starting to wonder if a sick out for one day would change their stance. It's obvious that they are putting together a plan for the strike (that doesn't include you coming back), but a sick out tomorrow might scare them straight... But then you get to deal with the owners. There lies the problem.. The airline guys do it but don't have to serve coffee to the passengers either.

 

[String Chz]

H25B, in fact, the negotiations has just been moved from the Board Room to the Line. Now, 2200+ will do their own form of legal negoitations. Remember, we fly the safest aircraft in the industry.

 

[h25b]

H25B, in fact, the negotiations has just been moved from the Board Room to the Line. Now, 2200+ will do their own form of legal negoitations. Remember, we fly the safest aircraft in the industry.

Been watching this out of morbid curiosity for years now and I wouldn't bet a dime that anything meaningful is going to come out of the negotiating sessions. It would be interesting however to see what happens if there was a huge sick-out one day.

The union members that sit around saying, "give us what we want or we'll just wait for the strike" are foolish. That's just like some kids on the playground, take a swing or shut up... If nothing's been accomplished and a strike occurs, you're finished.

 

[String Chz]

In order to have a strike, both parties must be released and since the NMB doesn't even have enough Mediators to handle the issue currently on the books, it seem highly unlikely a Mediator would even be assigned to the case for at least 6 to 8 months...if that.

A "Sick-Out" would be an illegal job action and is actively discouraged by the Union and all serious Union members. That would only hurt our cause.

Eventhough the Compnay has chosen to openly violate the CBA, and they have admitted it, the Union will choose not to follow the same path. This will be decided over the everyday economic issues of line flying. Plain (or should I say---PLANE) and simple.

The Company said they are willing to do whatever it takes to defeat us...they have the mney...I hope they are ready to spend it.

 

[abenaki]

h25b--


Eith you are ignorant of the law or are a company mole trying to start something that the company would LOVE us to do which we will absolutely NOT do.

A "sick-out" is illegal--Ask American Airlines how their illegal job action went and what it cost them.

The last thing our leadership wants to hear about is an illegal job action and has come out against anything like this. Anyone who even thinks of this idea is an idiot. Anyone whp participates in such a thing is a fool and is only hurting the union's efforts.

FAMILY GUY--

Are you ever going address using my nickname on these publc boards or am I to assume that I am correct in my assumption about your actions?

You did it to threaten me.....good job, it worked. I feel threatened. Does this make you feel smug and powerful? My background suggests that people who do such things do it out of deeply rooted feelings of insecurity and the need to feel some sense of control over others.

Your character, or the lack thereof, are reflected in your actions and by the fact that thus far, you have ignored my public and private messages to you regarding this issue.

Just want everyone else on here to know about how you stand firmly behind your anonymity while using that anonymity to threaten others. Pretty cowardly, Family Guy.

Furthermore, your credibility suffers as a result of your actions. Why would anyone take stock in what you have to say when your actions reflect such a lack of integrity and character?

 

[Hawkered]

No need to suggest the sky is falling just yet guys!

The last thing we need is a bunch of professioanl airmen turning into Chicken Little.

Stand down...stand down.

 

[Hogprint]

Oh I think Mr. Boisture would be willing to have a 'forensic audit' by a reputable accounting firm.

The more appropriate question is this - is the union willing to spend $12-$15 million on its little treasure hunt and the 4-6 months it requires for a forensic audit?

And then the bonus question - once you get the results and realize that the unions demands are unrealistic and unsustainable, will the union come back down to earth and make REASONABLE requests?

What part of this did you not understand?

Mr. Boisture simply has no stomach for such a review

The company turned this down. They DO NOT want a forensic look at the books by a reputable accounting firm. I repeat for the hard of hearing....THEY TURNED IT DOWN.

So google says it costs X amount of dollars, so it has to be true. It came off the internet!

When and if we ever get the results, I'm sure we'll find our requests are reasonable and sustainable.

 

[abenaki]

"And then the bonus question - once you get the results and realize that the unions demands are unrealistic and unsustainable, will the union come back down to earth and make REASONABLE requests?"

And when will the company come back down to earth and make REASONABLE offers? Ones that AREN'T REGRESSIVE? A pay proposal that is LESS in today's dollars than the contract in 1998, IS NOT REASONABLE!

 

[FAcFriend]

a quick question.

Why are we not using the same pay scale that you have now and just adding a % to it?

Why has the company made these offers using a convoluted pay scale- that few understand. Why not make all 5th year captains make the same pay whether you are 150 on the seniority list or 154th?

I have heard it is because the union wants to be sure seniority is honored and I agree that seniority is important, but if
pilot A starts in January and he gets a 5th year raise in Jan. He will automatically make more money than the B pilot. 5th year pilot who gets a raise on his anniversary in March.

For awhile they make the same- but then pilot A always gets a raise first and will always be ahead some.

Making the formula simple, seems that everyone would understand and be able to look quickly at their raise and know if the salary offer is a good deal.

Makes everyone the same- all pilots get 30% across the board pay raise, 30% retro pay for the past 4 years and the following other work rules: list...

Please note the numbers presented above are made up right now and dont reflect my opinion or anyone elses and are used soley for example purposes.

 

[abenaki]

FAcFriend-

The company wants the "convoluted pay scale" to lessen the effects of having a "bubble" of pilots hit the higher levels of pay all at once. Since there was a lot of hiring of pilots in 2000-2003 or so, there is a "bubble" that will move across the pay scale.

This (silly) matrix system of pay lessens the effects of that bubble. While most companies WANT growth, this one doesn't want to have to pay for the associated labor costs of that growth so they want a seniority percentile scale so that the "bubble effect" is lessened.



To repeat it once more, the pay scale that the company published about a 5th year captain making $80K plus or whatever it was at the 80th percentile or whatever THAT was was DELIBERATELY misleading because in their example, THERE WERE NO FIFTH YEAR PILOTS THAT QUALIFIED FOR THAT PAY RATE AT THAT PERCENTILE.

Now, if that isn't SPIN 101, I don't know what is.

 

[h25b]

h25b--


Eith you are ignorant of the law or are a company mole trying to start something that the company would LOVE us to do which we will absolutely NOT do.

A "sick-out" is illegal--Ask American Airlines how their illegal job action went and what it cost them.

The last thing our leadership wants to hear about is an illegal job action and has come out against anything like this. Anyone who even thinks of this idea is an idiot. Anyone whp participates in such a thing is a fool and is only hurting the union's efforts.

I simply said it would be interesting to see if such an action would change the company's attitude at the bargaining table... I'm very much aware that this is illegal and remember well what happened at AA. And please don't act like you're taking the high and mighty road (trying to scab-list the 135 pilots comes to mind), read the quote below... Sounds like the membership is undertaking a slow down to me... It's no secret what "fly safe" means.

H25B, in fact, the negotiations has just been moved from the Board Room to the Line. Now, 2200+ will do their own form of legal negoitations. Remember, we fly the safest aircraft in the industry.

 

[FAcFriend]

Abe

So you think it is the mgt that came up this convoluted pay scale?
I heard it was the union because it made the seniority thing better. But it doesnt matter- who did it. Who can undo it?

Was the unions proposal using a different scale?

How does your union negotiating committee feel about dumping this pay scale formula and keeping the same one you have now?

How does your union membership feel about it?

 

[Fracster]

Personaly I support the sick out. I wish we would do it. The effect it would have on NJA would greatly trump any financial penalty we would pay.

American was fined 30 Million. I highly doubt we would be fined a 16th of that given the type of operation we fall under and the lack of effect we have on the general public.