TheTruthCMH
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NJA STRONG UNION NEGOTIATOR'S SUMMARY--Part 3
- Thread starter abenaki
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Your're right.....
You know, you just may be.....I just took a walk with my dog and if there's one thing a retriever can teach you it's that when the sun is shining and the sky is blue and there are things to see and sniff (if you're the dog, that is), then the rest really doesn't matter.
In answer to your question, whether it was rhetorical or otherwise.....Perhaps it is because, as a friend of mine says, because I took the short bus to school.....as another friend likes to kid me, "You have a flair for the obvious"......But, neither gives you the cause to discount my reaction to Troll and FamilyGuy......And while you may think no one cares about individuals, I would beg to differ.....CMH has it's turrets turned and aimed ready to pick off the unsuspecting......I'd like not to have a target on my back. Potentially, they put one there.....They should be very proud of themselves for that.
I am not an informal spokesman for Mr. Gasta....I only asked him for permission to post his response to recent events to add some balance to the professional propaganda spewing forth from Bridgeway Bob at CMH who, by the way, has a style very similar to Joseph Goebbels.....I hope he doesn't end up the same way......
And I can assure you, that Gasta is not one to panic. Quite the contrary......There was no panic in his report....frustration and emotion, sure...why not? The company just wasted 30 days on a complete "reverese ultimatum" set-up without any real intent to complete the negotiations...Oh, yea, I guess they WANTED to complete the negotiations as long as we fell for the old ultimatum trick....didn't work, did it?
Nothing I am going to say on here is going to influnce the course of events. Thecompany wants to pay us Chevy wages for providing Rolls Royce service. I find it interesting that in a service business (and make no mistake, this business has more to do with service than it does airplanes) that they would choose this course of action with their front line service providers. Service excellence costs money.....look around at where great service is provided and you will find a well-treated staff who are well compensated...hotels, restaurants, high end car-dealerships, etc, etc all cost a LOT of money and their staffmembers are the best paid in their fields. Funny how NJA wants this first-rate service provided by some of the lowest paid pilots in the industry.
They may, indeed, get this thing done for the pay rates that they want. Who knows? And what will be the unintended consequence of THAT? Can you ask the burger flippers at Buger King to serve gourmet meals at the Four Seasons at Burger King wages? Nope. Ain't gonna happen. Oh, you can throw them in the position but eventually, that Four Seasons is going to lose it's five-star rating.....
This thing is a trainwreck waiting to happen.....I hope that there is enough time to slow it down and put it on a different track before it collides with the mountain...but, if it does blow, I guess I'll have more time to take some hikes with my dog....and that ain't a bad thing.
So, as my retriever just reminded me. there is little to be gained by participating on a board full of acrimony, bitterness, frustration, anger, and disrespect....so, I think I'll take my dog's advice and bail out to focus on the more postive things in life life taking walks and enjoying the sunshine instead of participating in mud fight.....
You all take care of yourselves.....now where's the leash?
You know, you just may be.....I just took a walk with my dog and if there's one thing a retriever can teach you it's that when the sun is shining and the sky is blue and there are things to see and sniff (if you're the dog, that is), then the rest really doesn't matter.
In answer to your question, whether it was rhetorical or otherwise.....Perhaps it is because, as a friend of mine says, because I took the short bus to school.....as another friend likes to kid me, "You have a flair for the obvious"......But, neither gives you the cause to discount my reaction to Troll and FamilyGuy......And while you may think no one cares about individuals, I would beg to differ.....CMH has it's turrets turned and aimed ready to pick off the unsuspecting......I'd like not to have a target on my back. Potentially, they put one there.....They should be very proud of themselves for that.
I am not an informal spokesman for Mr. Gasta....I only asked him for permission to post his response to recent events to add some balance to the professional propaganda spewing forth from Bridgeway Bob at CMH who, by the way, has a style very similar to Joseph Goebbels.....I hope he doesn't end up the same way......
And I can assure you, that Gasta is not one to panic. Quite the contrary......There was no panic in his report....frustration and emotion, sure...why not? The company just wasted 30 days on a complete "reverese ultimatum" set-up without any real intent to complete the negotiations...Oh, yea, I guess they WANTED to complete the negotiations as long as we fell for the old ultimatum trick....didn't work, did it?
Nothing I am going to say on here is going to influnce the course of events. Thecompany wants to pay us Chevy wages for providing Rolls Royce service. I find it interesting that in a service business (and make no mistake, this business has more to do with service than it does airplanes) that they would choose this course of action with their front line service providers. Service excellence costs money.....look around at where great service is provided and you will find a well-treated staff who are well compensated...hotels, restaurants, high end car-dealerships, etc, etc all cost a LOT of money and their staffmembers are the best paid in their fields. Funny how NJA wants this first-rate service provided by some of the lowest paid pilots in the industry.
They may, indeed, get this thing done for the pay rates that they want. Who knows? And what will be the unintended consequence of THAT? Can you ask the burger flippers at Buger King to serve gourmet meals at the Four Seasons at Burger King wages? Nope. Ain't gonna happen. Oh, you can throw them in the position but eventually, that Four Seasons is going to lose it's five-star rating.....
This thing is a trainwreck waiting to happen.....I hope that there is enough time to slow it down and put it on a different track before it collides with the mountain...but, if it does blow, I guess I'll have more time to take some hikes with my dog....and that ain't a bad thing.
So, as my retriever just reminded me. there is little to be gained by participating on a board full of acrimony, bitterness, frustration, anger, and disrespect....so, I think I'll take my dog's advice and bail out to focus on the more postive things in life life taking walks and enjoying the sunshine instead of participating in mud fight.....
You all take care of yourselves.....now where's the leash?
Abe, it is good that you take your dog for a walk and try and clear your head. You have obviously drank too much of the Union Kool Aid. You know the stuff that says do it the way of the MEC or the highway. What would you call it when the head of your Union says if you are not ready for a nasty fight to leave, or if you want to meet the Company half way to leave, or if you voted no on the strike vote to leave? I think you have dunk way too much.
Gasta is obviously very upset that his BBJ program did not sell the way that people had hoped and the opportunities for him at NetJets are limited. The market, not management, decided that. Now he believes that Santulli and Boisture are evil and wasting time?
“The company just wasted 30 days on a complete "reverse ultimatum" set-up without any real intent to complete the negotiations.”
Abe, there was no reverse ultimatum. What there was is called negotiations. Gasta and the other negotiators continue to ignore the fact that the Company put a good package on the table and will not put the Company at risk for unrealistic demands. The total value of the union’s proposal with pay and bonus is in excess of $1.299b and the company’s present proposal is $634m. And the Union walked out because the Company would not put the future of the entire organization at risk. Every employee thanks them and supports their efforts to give the pilots a good raise.
As for your Union leadership and their heavy-handed tactics to intimidate anyone who does not agree with their tactics it is utterly and completely thug mentality. You are either with them 100% or you are against them. So you should take a walk. A long walk and ask yourself what your future really holds. The trainwreck may be coming but what you want to ask yourself is what direction is it headed? It is headed towared IBT1108.
Gasta is obviously very upset that his BBJ program did not sell the way that people had hoped and the opportunities for him at NetJets are limited. The market, not management, decided that. Now he believes that Santulli and Boisture are evil and wasting time?
“The company just wasted 30 days on a complete "reverse ultimatum" set-up without any real intent to complete the negotiations.”
Abe, there was no reverse ultimatum. What there was is called negotiations. Gasta and the other negotiators continue to ignore the fact that the Company put a good package on the table and will not put the Company at risk for unrealistic demands. The total value of the union’s proposal with pay and bonus is in excess of $1.299b and the company’s present proposal is $634m. And the Union walked out because the Company would not put the future of the entire organization at risk. Every employee thanks them and supports their efforts to give the pilots a good raise.
As for your Union leadership and their heavy-handed tactics to intimidate anyone who does not agree with their tactics it is utterly and completely thug mentality. You are either with them 100% or you are against them. So you should take a walk. A long walk and ask yourself what your future really holds. The trainwreck may be coming but what you want to ask yourself is what direction is it headed? It is headed towared IBT1108.
You're right
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Diesel
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sigh-
I've allready explained what my "take the dog for a walk means."
If you're asking am i ready to draw my line in the sand. I say yes. I am.
I've heard it all before, i knew what the pay was, yada yada. But I am ready.
Believe it or not i enjoy reading what cmhtroll, dispatcher and the rest of the company spinners. They enjoy going through life reading only one side of the story. They don't bother to look at both sides. I guess that's life without a voice.
So yes get on this message board and post under various screen names. (anybody notice the influx of CMH screen names?) and spout the fact we're dragging the company under. That's fine. You'll be off this board and I'm sure i'll be posting here long after this is done.
I see both sides and we're headed for a train wreck. Remember I work for the owners. I keep them happy they keep me happy.
All i'm asking for is a reasonable pay with a reasonable work life. My union leaders know this. They are working for me. They are working volunteers that have left their whole family for months on end for my benefit. That is a thanks i can never repay.
Remember the union only left the table because they were negotiating with themselves. No offers were left on the table that was worth staying. Much like going to a car dealer that won't come down on his price. He's got your number if he's ready to deal he can call. Same with the company the union negotiatiors sat in CMH until the 15th.
Nobody called. That's enough proof for me.
I've allready explained what my "take the dog for a walk means."
If you're asking am i ready to draw my line in the sand. I say yes. I am.
I've heard it all before, i knew what the pay was, yada yada. But I am ready.
Believe it or not i enjoy reading what cmhtroll, dispatcher and the rest of the company spinners. They enjoy going through life reading only one side of the story. They don't bother to look at both sides. I guess that's life without a voice.
So yes get on this message board and post under various screen names. (anybody notice the influx of CMH screen names?) and spout the fact we're dragging the company under. That's fine. You'll be off this board and I'm sure i'll be posting here long after this is done.
I see both sides and we're headed for a train wreck. Remember I work for the owners. I keep them happy they keep me happy.
All i'm asking for is a reasonable pay with a reasonable work life. My union leaders know this. They are working for me. They are working volunteers that have left their whole family for months on end for my benefit. That is a thanks i can never repay.
Remember the union only left the table because they were negotiating with themselves. No offers were left on the table that was worth staying. Much like going to a car dealer that won't come down on his price. He's got your number if he's ready to deal he can call. Same with the company the union negotiatiors sat in CMH until the 15th.
Nobody called. That's enough proof for me.
You're right
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Diesel
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200K? Maybe less maybe more. That's my money. Whether it was paid to me 4 years ago or today. It's still my money.
They key to remember is that signing bonus, back pay, whatever you want to call it is negotiable. My salary is not.
The company was not willing to negotiate anymore when it came to salary.
No reason to just sit there and stare at each other.
They key to remember is that signing bonus, back pay, whatever you want to call it is negotiable. My salary is not.
The company was not willing to negotiate anymore when it came to salary.
No reason to just sit there and stare at each other.
String Chz
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Now the Company is going to have to negotiate with 2200 ticked off pilots. We are going to do our talking from the cockpits and management is going to have to listen. No more counter proposals, no more scheduled meetings. Every take off and landing, every preflight and post flight will be a negotiating session.
,,,,"have yourselves a Merry Little Christmas......"...that's if you make it past Thanksgiving......
,,,,"have yourselves a Merry Little Christmas......"...that's if you make it past Thanksgiving......
The only one who can take responsibility for ticked off pilots is the Union MEC. They promised unrealistic wages and expectations that were set so high, that when the company couldn’t meet them, they become dis-enfranchised. Unfortunately you believe that your future actions and “legal” pressure on the Company will change management’s mind, maybe a percent or two, but not what your MEC Leadership is asking for. But it is obvious that the MEC Leadership and Mr. Gasta was never truly dedicated to bargaining and getting a good deal for the pilots. What they have is no deal. And it will only get tougher from here.
The table is in Columbus gentlemen. The Union has walked away from the table, from the NMB and from common values and is moving into the realm of thuggery. The Egos of the MEC and the negotiation committee will be humbled. Olsen’s goal is to unionize all fractionals and he can’t unless he brings in the hefty promises that he has made. If he can’t do that, his career as a Union Leader is limited. Any politician who does not fulfill his promise is a lame duck.
So what is his plan? To ruin the business. Kill it one piece at a time. Just like Eastern Airlines. Remember the song, “We got our pilots the highest paid salary in the industry, and they went bankrupt not long after.” This management has said that they will not put the business at risk, and committing to the level of labor concessions demanded by the Union would be fatal. I am sure that the majority of employees and pilots do not want to kill the company. But you would never know it by the rhetoric of your Union Leaders.
Gentlemen the ball is in your court. You can come back to the table or you may find yourself out in the cold.
The table is in Columbus gentlemen. The Union has walked away from the table, from the NMB and from common values and is moving into the realm of thuggery. The Egos of the MEC and the negotiation committee will be humbled. Olsen’s goal is to unionize all fractionals and he can’t unless he brings in the hefty promises that he has made. If he can’t do that, his career as a Union Leader is limited. Any politician who does not fulfill his promise is a lame duck.
So what is his plan? To ruin the business. Kill it one piece at a time. Just like Eastern Airlines. Remember the song, “We got our pilots the highest paid salary in the industry, and they went bankrupt not long after.” This management has said that they will not put the business at risk, and committing to the level of labor concessions demanded by the Union would be fatal. I am sure that the majority of employees and pilots do not want to kill the company. But you would never know it by the rhetoric of your Union Leaders.
Gentlemen the ball is in your court. You can come back to the table or you may find yourself out in the cold.
You're right
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Gasta says:
The average corporate pilot flies what, 360 hours annually? So according to Gasta you guys are averaging 1,800 flight hours each year.
The average corporate pilot is away from his family what, one (1) night per week? So according to Gasta you guys are averaging 364 nights per year away from your families.
The problem is no one knows any longer what numbers are real and what numbers are inflated. Your union representatives have one goal---to unionize the entire fractional industry and is willing to "STMFD" in order to make this goal happen.
The next few months will be a struggle for all, and your guess is as good as mine on how this will play out. However, knowing there are "two corners", the MEC in one corner, and Buffett/RTS in the other, I'm glad to be in the $43 billion dollar corner. Again, make no mistake, there will be a lot of pain for ALL involved; for the Pilots, BWY employees, Owners, but RTS will never "give in" to the thug mentality that seems to have overcome the "new guard".
Yes, it may be "ego" at this point, but with that backing, he has the staying power. Does the MEC? Does your 1108 even have a million in the bank? Like it or not, and unfortunatley for all of us, this is what it will come down to.
abenaki said:
The average corporate pilot flies what, 360 hours annually? So according to Gasta you guys are averaging 1,800 flight hours each year.
The average corporate pilot is away from his family what, one (1) night per week? So according to Gasta you guys are averaging 364 nights per year away from your families.
The problem is no one knows any longer what numbers are real and what numbers are inflated. Your union representatives have one goal---to unionize the entire fractional industry and is willing to "STMFD" in order to make this goal happen.
The next few months will be a struggle for all, and your guess is as good as mine on how this will play out. However, knowing there are "two corners", the MEC in one corner, and Buffett/RTS in the other, I'm glad to be in the $43 billion dollar corner. Again, make no mistake, there will be a lot of pain for ALL involved; for the Pilots, BWY employees, Owners, but RTS will never "give in" to the thug mentality that seems to have overcome the "new guard".
Yes, it may be "ego" at this point, but with that backing, he has the staying power. Does the MEC? Does your 1108 even have a million in the bank? Like it or not, and unfortunatley for all of us, this is what it will come down to.
Diesel
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ahhh cmhtroll- It's nice to see the rhetoric back
The union is available for negotiations ONCE THE COMPANY DECIDES TO NEGOTIATE. We will not negotiate with ourselves. PERIOD.
Why don't you go to your people and spout all the crap you say here and say why aren't we presenting the pilots with a fair offer? Why aren't we moving on any economic points? Why? Ask you're own people this.
The reason is because it's easier to point at the pilots and say "accept it, be happy you have a job." Accept it and be happy we don't furlough. Accept it because we can't pay you what you're worth or what you've done to build this company up.
No thanks I won't accept it anymore. 93 percent of us won't accept it anymore. You can say the union is a bunch of thugs. Much like calling a fraternity a frat. You just wouldn't understand unless you were part of one.
This union has done more to increase the quality of life of the pilots here in leaps and bounds since SU came in. The company is now held accountable to the contract. A legally binding document that makes the company follow the rules of the pilot. My w2 shows that time and time again. Thanks for the 2300bucks for the contract violation.
So spin the company line. I'll look at it from both sides while you look at it from one side.
The union is available for negotiations ONCE THE COMPANY DECIDES TO NEGOTIATE. We will not negotiate with ourselves. PERIOD.
Why don't you go to your people and spout all the crap you say here and say why aren't we presenting the pilots with a fair offer? Why aren't we moving on any economic points? Why? Ask you're own people this.
The reason is because it's easier to point at the pilots and say "accept it, be happy you have a job." Accept it and be happy we don't furlough. Accept it because we can't pay you what you're worth or what you've done to build this company up.
No thanks I won't accept it anymore. 93 percent of us won't accept it anymore. You can say the union is a bunch of thugs. Much like calling a fraternity a frat. You just wouldn't understand unless you were part of one.
This union has done more to increase the quality of life of the pilots here in leaps and bounds since SU came in. The company is now held accountable to the contract. A legally binding document that makes the company follow the rules of the pilot. My w2 shows that time and time again. Thanks for the 2300bucks for the contract violation.
So spin the company line. I'll look at it from both sides while you look at it from one side.
The "thug" mentality more applies to NJA management rather than the union.
The union makes no threats, no sick outs, no slow downs, no illegal actions of any sort.
Management threatens regularly. CP/ACP "Fly and airplane broke or I will bring you in". "Just move the broken airplane to the service center so we dont have to fly out a mechanic" just to be reported to the FAA. "So you wont fly over 14 hours, well F--k you", "I dont care if you started before 4:00am, you will fly over 10 hours".
These are all factual responses from CP/ACP's in the past few months. Now tell me, who's threatening who?
I fully subscribe and support STFD!
The union makes no threats, no sick outs, no slow downs, no illegal actions of any sort.
Management threatens regularly. CP/ACP "Fly and airplane broke or I will bring you in". "Just move the broken airplane to the service center so we dont have to fly out a mechanic" just to be reported to the FAA. "So you wont fly over 14 hours, well F--k you", "I dont care if you started before 4:00am, you will fly over 10 hours".
These are all factual responses from CP/ACP's in the past few months. Now tell me, who's threatening who?
I fully subscribe and support STFD!
You're right
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TheTruthCMH
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Bad Monkey!
Say what again,I dare you
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Yes trolls, the Union did walk away from the table one time, but the company never came to the table to bargain in good faith to begin with.
And to answer your next stupid troll question, the company did so many times come late to the table, or never to the table when they were supposed to, came totally unprepared, blah, blah, blah...
You can be a Biatch, or you can be a Biatch Slapper.
We are the Biatch slapper and will never be the Biatch again!
Profession or hobby, you my management mole have decided, now live with what you sowed and enjoy it.
Merry Christmas
And to answer your next stupid troll question, the company did so many times come late to the table, or never to the table when they were supposed to, came totally unprepared, blah, blah, blah...
You can be a Biatch, or you can be a Biatch Slapper.
We are the Biatch slapper and will never be the Biatch again!
Profession or hobby, you my management mole have decided, now live with what you sowed and enjoy it.
Merry Christmas
What a crock!
Mach 92 - you are so full of sh!t. Just trying to mak eeverybody think that somebody is going to come to your rescue. Ain't gonna happen. If you want to predict the future, think like the NWA mechanics did. That is where it is going.
But let's hear some more of your crystal ball predictions. Everybody thinks it is time for the pilots to come to their senses.
Mach 92 - you are so full of sh!t. Just trying to mak eeverybody think that somebody is going to come to your rescue. Ain't gonna happen. If you want to predict the future, think like the NWA mechanics did. That is where it is going.
But let's hear some more of your crystal ball predictions. Everybody thinks it is time for the pilots to come to their senses.
Diesel
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This is my favorite part of what news organizations do.
Instead of doing some research or anything like that they say, "everybody is saying you're cheating on your wife." or my favorite, "everybody is saying....."
Instead of actually using references, or putting themselves in front of confrontation they use the line, "everybody is saying...."
Who is everybody?
Instead of doing some research or anything like that they say, "everybody is saying you're cheating on your wife." or my favorite, "everybody is saying....."
Instead of actually using references, or putting themselves in front of confrontation they use the line, "everybody is saying...."
Who is everybody?
CapnVegetto
The Prince of all Saiyans
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CMHTroll said:
I don't even work there, but even I can't ignore this. You can't compare the NWA mech strike to a strike at NJA. Pilots make the company run. Can you sell off every single trip for 2 or 3 months and make money? Nope. You have 2200 pilots. Are you going to replace that entire workforce with scabs? Nope. NWA management planned for a mech strike for MONTHS. There are only so many sims and so many sim instructors, not to mention the other regular clients that use FSI. Trying to find qualified guys? Nope. How many current, type rated, qualified, ready to go DA2000, G200, and Citation pilots are ready to quit their higher paying to come work for the pathetic wages BB pays? Ding ding ding!!! The correct answer is NOBODY!!! What do we have for him Johnny??? The pilots are the lifeblood of the company. How well do you think it is going to go if they all walk out? If that happens, the company is SCREWED.
The Mech strike at NWA is not working that well because of preperation by management. It's still hurting them though.....look at the bankruptcy! Pilots are a completely different animal. Without them, the planes don't go NOW. Not when MEL's are due, not when something breaks, NOW. Can NJA take that kind of financial hit? I don't think so. Plus, how many owners do you think are going to be happy with never flying on QS airplanes? No matter how you look at it, you DON'T want a strike to happen.
Think about it.
Diesel
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