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NJ Recalls

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yeah why would anyone think that? if there was a forced recalled (vs. a voluntary one), wouldn't it happen because demand exceeds supply 11 times in one quarter? that means flying is up and we need more pilots and more aircraft. unless those 11 days were a fluke and high demand isn't sticking around, I would think it's silly to furlough again when we're busy and staying busy.
 
billybob said:
You think they will kick us right back out. How would it look?
Click to expand...

I don't think the execs care how it will look. NJ employee relations are night and day comparing pre and post recession.

Even though NJ is profitable and is now GROWING they refuse to recall and would rather spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a day selling off countless trips or create delays bc there are not enough crews to fly the planes to handle demand.

Oh and since it's contract time, they are telling NJ pilots they are not needed and that they want a reduction in their pay and benefits or NJ is doomed. And if NJ pilots refuse, they are threatened with more furloughs and and cancelled aircraft orders.

So long story short, they don't care if they call you back and then furlough you. It would actually prove the point that you are expendable.
 
Stand strong is all I can say. The offer they gave so far 1% a year..... Is a crap covered d!ck they can suck. I want to be back but they have more employees now than in 07 and we are the problem? I hope Njasap is reading this a knows that all of us in the cold will say there rather than come back to less.

Play your games Nja management, I will burn it down and chain the door rather than take less.

10-250
Stand strong
 
billybob said:
Stand strong is all I can say. The offer they gave so far 1% a year..... Is a crap covered d!ck they can suck. I want to be back but they have more employees now than in 07 and we are the problem? I hope Njasap is reading this a knows that all of us in the cold will say there rather than come back to less.

Play your games Nja management, I will burn it down and chain the door rather than take less.

10-250
Stand strong
Click to expand...

Just to be clear...that's a pay CUT of 1% a year for 5 yrs, among other bad things they"offered".
My favorite part is how they called these things"mutual goals", I haven't laughed so hard in a while.
 
billybob said:
Stand strong is all I can say. The offer they gave so far 1% a year..... Is a crap covered d!ck they can suck. I want to be back but they have more employees now than in 07 and we are the problem? I hope Njasap is reading this a knows that all of us in the cold will say there rather than come back to less.

Play your games Nja management, I will burn it down and chain the door rather than take less.

10-250
Stand strong
Click to expand...

Don't the owner contracts include yearly CPI increases on management fees which are supposed to capture pilot pay raises? Then again, it's hard to increase raises when every other frax pays their pilots a fraction of what Nj pilots make.
 
jonjuan said:
it's hard to increase raises when every other frax pays their pilots a fraction of what Nj pilots make.
Click to expand...


not really, all the other fractionals aren't netjets. someone else commented about ferrari. A ferrari and a ford fusion both do exactly the same thing.

The ferrari is a little bit more expensive though.

After what avantair did, it seems they were 30% too cheap not netjets being 30% more expensive.
 
A ferrari and a ford fusion both do exactly the same thing.

And there is a reason most people (even rich people) do not use a Ferrari for their daily driving needs such as driving to work or when they absolutely, positively have to be there. Just because it is an expensive car does not make it the most suitable vehicle for most needs.

Also, don't forget 2007 was a loooong time ago. Not only was the economy and tax situation different, but NJA had a commanding market share of existing owners and of new fractional owners. Since the market for "fractional" air has changed.
 
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Njaowner,

Just asking has the market changed to a point that I should take a 5% pay cut over the next few years?

Would you and others be willing to help us help you buy supporting the pilots.

The owners and the pilots are the life of Nja and when both are happy the company does better.
 
Where did I miss this 1% pay cut talk?
 
OPECJet said:
Where did I miss this 1% pay cut talk?
Click to expand...

The company outlined their "4 Goals" for negotiations in a newsletter sent to the pilots.

Their "wish list" was so outrageously absurd I have legitimate concerns about the mental stability of the company negotiators...
 
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Back when there wasn't such a thing as fractional combined with the massive banking industry rise in the early 2000s, nj thrived. Now, dozens of fractionals and charter companies are providing the same service for a "fractional" (pun intended) of the cost. Look at what Kenny d, jet suite, flops, flex, etc are doing in a crappier economy. Costs are getting squeezed.
 
jetlag7 said:
The company outlined their "4 Goals" for negotiations in a newsletter sent to the pilots.

Their "wish list" was so outrageously absurd I have legitimate concerns about the mental stability of the company negotiators...
Click to expand...


Hmmm sounds like they are attempting to set the baseline way low, it'll make a 3% gain look awesome...

When in reality the only reason NJA is still around is the pilots hard work.... So 10% should be the very least
 
BentOver said:
Hmmm sounds like they are attempting to set the baseline way low, it'll make a 3% gain look awesome...

When in reality the only reason NJA is still around is the pilots hard work.... So 10% should be the very least
Click to expand...

Very true... Ops is terribly understaffed these days and we've been carrying a much heavier workload as a result.

Pilots are "burning-out" at a much faster rate than historical norms so fatigue and sick calls are understandably higher.

As far as compensation goes, the 10% you mentioned wouldn't even cover inflationary losses from our last contract. Just to get us back to 2007 wages, that number is closer to 20%.

On top of that, just to achieve parity with our peers who possess similar training, experience and qualifications (who by the way never approach the daily workload we do) you would have to add another 30% to that number.

Yes, I agree they were trying to set the bar low... However, I don't believe they intend to bargain in good faith because that bar isn't anywhere near the ballpark -- in fact, it's not even on the same planet.
 
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BentOver said:
When in reality the only reason NJA is still around is the pilots hard work
Click to expand...
So customers finding value in the product has nothing to do with NJ success?
 
jetlag7 said:
The company outlined their "4 Goals" for negotiations in a newsletter sent to the pilots.

Their "wish list" was so outrageously absurd I have legitimate concerns about the mental stability of the company negotiators...
Click to expand...

Agreed. The way I read it is that 1% isn't just a paycut, but overall lowering of labor cost. The savings could be realized in places other than a paycut (think insurance, vacation, etc). No thank you.....
 
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OPECJet said:
Agreed. The way I read it is that 1% isn't just a paycut, but overall lowering of labor cost. The savings could be realized in places other than a paycut (think insurance, vacation, etc). No thank you.....
Click to expand...


The savings can be realized in more efficient ops, like not ferrying a jet to avoid paying a pilot an after midnight. Savings in reduced insurance cost, less vacation, etc is nothing more than concessions. Sorry, but not going to happen. Record profit sans sales means even more record profit as sales increase, which they are. On our backs, wearing more hats every day fixing their miss cues due to support staff reductions.
 
pilotyip said:
So customers finding value in the product has nothing to do with NJ success?
Click to expand...

Who do you think adds the value?

The CEO of square plates can think he does, but who is the face of the company. Who is out there making sure everything comes together. It's the pilots....

If catering doesn't show the pilots have a cc that can somewhat rectify the problem. If the flight plans aren't filed, the pilots can do it themselves if needed. Fact is, when all this stuff does get screwed up at times, the pilots are the ones who make sure it'll be done when the owners show up....

Management should not view the pilots as an expense that needs to be reduced
 
billybob said:
Njaowner,

Just asking has the market changed to a point that I should take a 5% pay cut over the next few years?

Would you and others be willing to help us help you buy supporting the pilots.

The owners and the pilots are the life of Nja and when both are happy the company does better.
Click to expand...

I see no reason why the owners would have to pay a nickel more for the CBA we deserve. Over the past several years we have 1) posted profits 2) paid down over a billion in debt.

The EMT is just going to have to settle for $1 million homes instead of $30 million homes.
 
rajflyboy said:
you guys at Netjets need a 30 percent pay increase as the minimum

that will bring up the pay scales for the rest of us too
Click to expand...

Ummmm.... No. 30% isn't close to what we deserve. That barely covers inflation.
 
Have there been no recalls whatsoever? How many pilots tend to leave/quit annually since the furloughs? Are their positions not re-filled?

I would expect a bunch at the bottom to leave when the legacies start to ramp up in the next year or two.
 
BentOver said:
Hmmm sounds like they are attempting to set the baseline way low, it'll make a 3% gain look awesome...

When in reality the only reason NJA is still around is the pilots hard work.... So 10% should be the very least
Click to expand...

In a couple more years, when the contract is hopefully signed, a 20% raise will be right back where it was in 2007 thanks to inflation. Anything less than a 20% raise is already a pay cut. That's something people need to consider when evaluating contract proposals.
 

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