New Pinnacle Management team

[1.3XVso]

Hire the FO's and keep the 7,000 hour guys in the left seat. I really don't understand the selection process, but the FO's that got on at Airways are great dudes. I'm jealous but happy for them.

Good for them. They deserve it since they got boned by the yes voters and the union during the SLI.

 

[1.3XVso]

Keep telling yourself that if it gives you the platform to preach from. It was very close to happening.

Really? Are you kidding?

 

[Flyer1015]

Keep telling yourself that if it gives you the platform to preach from. It was very close to happening.

If Delta wanted 9E closed, it would, with or without concessions.

 

[Flyer1015]

Hire the FO's and keep the 7,000 hour guys in the left seat. I really don't understand the selection process, but the FO's that got on at Airways are great dudes. I'm jealous but happy for them.

Most of the RJ FOs getting hired at legacy and LCCs have 4,000-8000+ hours. They're well qualified.

Which is actually the same as getting on at American...this has got to scare the sh!t out of Captains.

US Airways wasn't exactly the most attractive place for most RJ Captains, it was too much of a paycut. At 9E, post Chptr 11 I'm sure the tune has changed. What I do know is a couple FOs getting called at US Airways from an application window from over a year ago. They got their stuff in first, good, they deserve it.

 

[ricecake]

Most of the RJ FOs getting hired at legacy and LCCs have 4,000-8000+ hours. They're well qualified.


US Airways wasn't exactly the most attractive place for most RJ Captains, it was too much of a paycut. At 9E, post Chptr 11 I'm sure the tune has changed. What I do know is a couple FOs getting called at US Airways from an application window from over a year ago. They got their stuff in first, good, they deserve it.

The last FO that I flew with that got on at Airways was in his mid twenties with about 2500TT and no TPIC. He said he didn't have any connections there. Lucky dude, but I think we are all scratching our heads.

 

[big shacks]

Yep..same thing for me..good for them..one heck of a future to get on in your mid twenties.

 

[EL10]

If Delta wanted 9E closed, it would, with or without concessions.

Yes Delta had total control of what it wanted to do with 9E. They new exactly what they could go for. They new exactly where they needed to get to be cheeper than the other bids for the flying. Simple as if they can do it for X then we keep them, if any reason we can not achieve X we know we can get airline ABc to do it at that price.

To think that they had the same plan if they could not get concessions is very naive. Just as the thought of not being able to take advantage cost savings is just as naive. It was a business decision that was based on long term targets, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Flyer1015]

The last FO that I flew with that got on at Airways was in his mid twenties with about 2500TT and no TPIC. He said he didn't have any connections there. Lucky dude, but I think we are all scratching our heads.

Why are you scratching your heads? The misconception today is the idea one needs TPIC to move on.

Yes Delta had total control of what it wanted to do with 9E. They new exactly what they could go for. They new exactly where they needed to get to be cheeper than the other bids for the flying. Simple as if they can do it for X then we keep them, if any reason we can not achieve X we know we can get airline ABc to do it at that price.

To think that they had the same plan if they could not get concessions is very naive. Just as the thought of not being able to take advantage cost savings is just as naive. It was a business decision that was based on long term targets, nothing more and nothing less.

The problem with your logic is that, as many at 9E have already pointed out, they still make more (and are more expensive) than certain other DCI reigonals like GoJets. So your theory goes out the window. Today, GoJets can fly a 70 seater RJ cheaper than Pinnacle. But that didn't spell the end of 9E, even though it could have according to your logic. What IS naiive is to think that a big player like Delta would actually have a viable business model dependent solely on pilots taking concessions. No where in history has only a pilot concession made an airline last long term. If they need to fix a broken model, pilot costs are not the ultimate bottom line that will make or break the airline. The fact remains that Delta can do whatever they want, even with or without concessions. If they really wanted 9E gone, 9E would be gone and GoJets would do the same flying at a cheaper cost. But Delta pulled a bluff, and the union went with their FUD campaign.

 

[FOrever85]

Still waiting. What do you think would have happened if everyone at Pinnacle voted no?

 

[Flyer1015]

Still waiting. What do you think would have happened if everyone at Pinnacle voted no?

Another motion 1113 filed with less concessions demanded by management in court as opposed to the last time when they over-reached and the judge denied it. In terms of flying, nothing changed compared to what 9E is doing today. Your 2/1 paycheck would have been normal JCBA pay until a judge delivered otherwise to a 1113 filing.

 

[1.3XVso]

Another motion 1113 filed with less concessions demanded by management in court as opposed to the last time when they over-reached and the judge denied it. In terms of flying, nothing changed compared to what 9E is doing today. Your 2/1 paycheck would have been normal JCBA pay until a judge delivered otherwise to a 1113 filing.

Don't bother reasoning with these people.

 

[EL10]

Still waiting. What do you think would have happened if everyone at Pinnacle voted no?

There are other costs to running an airline then pilot pay rates. It was all accounted for in the analysis of what was the long term costs of closing doors and the associated costs of aircraft transfers verse keeping the operation going.

Other than a case of Stockholm syndrome I have yet to see any factual information that supports your view of what could have happened.

The argument that they changed the demands after the judge asked for changes again does not help your view point. Do you believe that the largest airline in the world did not have expert legal advise that briefed them on the likelihood of the initial demands would been pass as is?

Look I totally hate what happened to 9E but to think it was personal or to prove a point is foolish. There is nothing that 9E was doing that they could not find someone else to do. It will always be about what will provide the long term financial benefit to the company.

Regionals need to come up with a new way of thinking on scope to protect from the changes that a simple Air Service Agreement can create.

 

[xjhawk]

Flyer- so one assumes by your reasoning that experience counts for nothing. The only reason your logic works (no pic to move on) in the real world is from the HR stand point of "equal" opportunity programs and daddy is in management so I will get hired by United. PIC time equals time and experience making decisions that matter. But just go on thinking just the opposite. You have no PIC and were gifted an opportunity and must justify why you were given sais opportunity.

 

[gojo]

There are other costs to running an airline then pilot pay rates. It was all accounted for in the analysis of what was the long term costs of closing doors and the associated costs of aircraft transfers verse keeping the operation going.

Other than a case of Stockholm syndrome I have yet to see any factual information that supports your view of what could have happened.

The argument that they changed the demands after the judge asked for changes again does not help your view point. Do you believe that the largest airline in the world did not have expert legal advise that briefed them on the likelihood of the initial demands would been pass as is?

Look I totally hate what happened to 9E but to think it was personal or to prove a point is foolish. There is nothing that 9E was doing that they could not find someone else to do. It will always be about what will provide the long term financial benefit to the company.

Regionals need to come up with a new way of thinking on scope to protect from the changes that a simple Air Service Agreement can create.

I agree with both of your recent posts. Regionals had a lot more leverage years ago when gas was cheap and they were growing at the expense of mainline. Most people that post on this thread are lost in the past, and don't realize that the dynamics of the regional platform are rapidly changing due to mainline revising the fleet and taking some of that flying back. It would be a lot different if all regionals were paid the same by their mainline partners, but there will always be someone biding it cheaper. Was it smoke and mirrors when Delta said they would shut us down if the new contract wasn't ratified? I don't think so. Skywest, ASA, Air Wisconsin, and Go Jets were all ramping up for that scenario. As soon as the TA was ratified they all stopped.

 

[sinkrate]

Another motion 1113 filed with less concessions demanded by management in court as opposed to the last time when they over-reached and the judge denied it. In terms of flying, nothing changed compared to what 9E is doing today. Your 2/1 paycheck would have been normal JCBA pay until a judge delivered otherwise to a 1113 filing.

Not quite. An 1113(c) petition is a creature of the reorganization chapter of the bankruptcy code. There is no provision for it in the liquidation chapters. Delta had stated repeatedly no consuensual agreement - no exit financing and they meant it. It would have been full pay to the last day but the last day would have come quickly.