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New Nutjets Payscale (proposed)

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OH MY GOD. You are correct of course. I was mistaken. Just re-read that part more carefully.

So the beauty of this deal is you can fly a Citation X and still be capped at the Ultra level.

Not like it matters. Its doomed to fail!

Oh MY GOD!!!!!!!

Its... just.... unreal.

This one little detail is just a drop in the bucket. But I am struck with fresh horror of just how bad this TA is.
 
The horror is still stinking in. So the MEC wants me to agree to a new system where my ultimate pay potential goes DOWN from around 95K a year to possibly no more than 81K................ ahhhhhh..... my head is about ready to explode!!!!
 
Griz

I dont have a bone to pick with you, nor am I mad. Why would I be? I just don't understand this sense of entitlement. Yes, pilots industry wide make poor wages - while management takes more than there fair share. But, did you really think you were going to be making $150k? You believed what your union was promising and the company was spewing. Welcome to the 'real' aviation industry.

I also would like to know what you mean by the "regional mindset". From my side of the tracks I am very familiar with the military mindset with regards to attititudes toward the regional industry. Again the sense of entitlement rears it's ugly head, until of course you are an ex-military pilot being furloughed from mainline - then the regionals look pretty tasty, and just to keep flying, you demand the pilot seat at a regional. How does that not constitute the same whorish behavior?

If you want to point fingers, I guess you could also scream at the guys at NJA who went the PFT (Pay-for-training) route also. Afterall, didn't that action tell management years ago that they could treat pilots anyway they wished, since they'd be willing to pay for a job at low-wages? I think we have finally come around, but it will take time to reverse the damage done.

At least you don't have ALPA negotiating your contract.
 
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"sense of entitlement"

Doesn't that usually refer to someone who expects things to just be handed to them?

We aren't looking for hand outs.

We are looking for honest compensation for what we do. We don't expect to be handed this, we know we need to fight for it. That our MEC has been so WEAK in this fight is what has us so disgusted.
 
I have been watching everything pretty closely for the past couple of months and just came back from an interview. The question I have is where people are getting the idea that NJA is looking for low time instructors who "get to fly a jet for the first time" and therefor will fly for substandard pay. Here is a breakdown of the people I met at my interview:

1) Airforce (KC-135)

2) Marine Corps (Super Corbra, Beech 1900 121 time, and Citation type)

3) Piedmont Airlines (over three years on the DHC-8)

4) American Eagle (over 5 years on the E-145 and other Eagle T-props)

5) Career Charter Pilot (typed in the KA-350 who flew every Beech product except the 1900)

6) Career Charter Pilot (typed in 1900 and DHC-7)

7) Me (see profile)

I would guess that the average age was around 35. We all went through the NJA presentation that discased everything under the current contract and to my knowledge every one who was offered a job accepted. These folks were far from a CFI drooling over a jet. They were hard working professionals who did not see any future at their current employer and or had a couple of layoffs under their belt. No one is getting any younger and this contract is still better than any of us could find to work under elsewhere.



The fact is that while this TA is far off from what most people were hoping for it is still better than all of the regionals where most of us were coming from or going to.

Finding a company that has never had a furlough, no hot reserve, has good benefits, pays you day one, pays all of your uniforms, and is growing all adds up to a company that is much better than a lot of other outfits out there.

Looking at airline pilot pay I found a quick comparison for the first three years as an FO and fourth as a captain:

1) Air Wisconsin: 23, 33, 34, 41

2) American Eagle 21, 30, 32, 45

3) ASA 19, 34, 35, 66

4) Chautauqua 22, 29, 33, 61

5) Comair 23, 37, 38, 66

6) Express Jet 20, 28, 31, 57

7) Pinnicle 21, 24, 30, 60

8) PSA 21, 27, 29, 60

9) Skywest 19, 27, 28, 61

10)Trans States 22, 25, 27, 58
Regional Average:
Year 1: $21.1 Year 2: $29.4 Year 3: $31.7 Year 4: $57.5 Four year Average: $34.9

When working out this demonstration I did not take into effect companies like Colgan Air, Corporate, Great Lakes, Mesa, Mesaba, Shuttle America or Skyway. I also did not compare per-diem or benefits.

NJA new Pay scales:

Year 1: $33.5 Year 2: 34.7 Year 3: 36.0 Year 4: 65. Four year Average: $42.3

This demonstrates an average difference of $7,400/year.

Using the same criteria I compared Flight Options and came up this:

Year 1: 33.9 Year 2: 36.0 Year 3: 39.9 Year 4: 62.1 Four year Average: $42.9



I understand that everyone is frustrated. At my previous employer (also Teamsters) we had passed a 96% strike vote before our TA got finalized. I think that NJA pilots obviously deserve more but to say that it will pass because of low time pilots with no jet time who will work for nothing is a very very inaccurate observation of our industry as a whole.
 
Hey snake,

So if you are a COMPLETE LOSER and just can't find a job elsewhere and LOOK FORWARD to making up to $39,000 a year by year FIVE ($44k/yr on the SLAVE schedule) please apply
Did you just describe yourself? Only difference is when you applied, you did it for less money. You say as a furloged pilot, it was a good "Hiding Place". If its not a good place to hide out now, whats keeping you there, the money?

To reply to your post, I don't intend on applying to Netjets and therefore don't pray that you quit. I hope you stay on because I find your rants quite amusing.
I got sick and tired of my last job, like you I was pissed about the situation, but unlike you, I did somthing constructive about it. I left and found a better job. I didn't spend months and months moaning and complaining about how horrible things were going to be. I didn't try to convince people to stay away from my employer. I just did somthing about it. Talk is cheap!

Look back a month or so, you posted you knew the TA was going to suck and you still stuck around.

So the questions back to you. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? I bet I know. You're going to vote down the TA, continue to rant and rave for the next god only knows how long, and sit there and take the abuse.
 
With a handle like Tripacer, 5000 hours, you should be just about ready to stop paying your dues. Every single one of us at NJ have paid more dues than you even know are out there. Your tripacer mindset is what this business doesn't need. Your kind will perpetuate low pay in the industry. You're almost there dude with your 5000 hours (don't know what the quality of time is) but you'll compete with those hired at the same time as you. Believe me your attitude will be evident and transparent at the interview. These guys are not amateurs. Not many young instructors will make it past the interview. Why not just try to be proactive if this is your chosen profession, and let's not perpetuate these embarassing wages and working conditions.
 
Xrated....another blunder on your part. I am in a POOL...you probably don't know what that is. I WILL be leaving soon...I WON'T be collecting ANY retro check before I go due to this SHAM of a TA....YOU will STILL be an ASSMONKEY ! SOME things DO change :)

One final thought for slimeboy and his friends. I have published the PAYRATES presented to us via TA. This was done for informational purposes for those considering coming here. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO COME HERE and want to rationalize your decision (regardless of WHATEVER you are saying to the contrary...blah blah blah). For YOU or anyone else to berate a NUTJET pilot currently on the property for not liking what we see highlights your ignorant view of aviation. I've been to the regionals, to the majors, to the cargo community and now to the FRACS...unless you have tasted a little of each, you truly don't understand HOW BADLY IT SUCKS HERE. Don't worry, people WILL leave NUTJETS, but not on YOUR timetable. Your comments, as are Tri-losers, are simply ignorant and mis-informed. TRIPACER thinks we have an "ENTITLEMENT" complex....YOU ARE A JOKE ! The ONLY thing he/she said that even remotely sounds correct is his comment on PFT. Here is another interesting quote:
"These pilots are nuts if they are expecting a huge payraise. They once PAID ME to fly these jets..." -R. Santulli
Talk about PFT biting a group of pilots right in the ass !
Before you stupidly assume anything else, I arrived here AFTER PFT was abolished.
 
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Oh, ok. Ya, that was a good one...ha ha.

Since you are leaving very soon, think you could hook me up with a Netjets app?
 
Oh geez...

Snakeplt you are one strange chicken. To spend so much time on this board begging...pleading...others not to apply to NJA is just plain strange.

You better hope there isn't a psych profile at your next employer, 'cause friend...you need therapy right now.
 
gunfyter said:
current contract​

Over $25,000 pay cut over a 14 year career as a PIC.

And you wonder WHERE your $25K signing bonus came from? NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY...

"There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't"

Ummm...discounted at 4% (estimate for the average inflation over the next 14 years), the difference is actually closer to $14,700 in 2004 dollars. I don't have the particulars of the $25K bonus, but anyone getting that money today is actually making out pretty well.
 
What About The Gateways???

What is the situation with the gateways??????
Are they going to do that pilot domicle thing for new hires after the contract???
 
skippy767 said:
What is the situation with the gateways??????
Are they going to do that pilot domicle thing for new hires after the contract???
No. Restricted to 4-5 gateway cities vs. many on the books now.
 

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