New Nutjets Payscale (proposed)

[Snakeplt]

Sctt...

You got that right brothah !!!

 

[Sctt@NJA]

I got one question for Griz, Snakeplt, and ALL the other posters here who are whining about the TA.

Why did you take the job 3-5 years ago, and then stay, if it's so bad at NetJets?

I guess it is because you guys can't go back to the bankrupt air carriers you came from. Do us all a favor and QUIT - PLEASE.

Bitching about a $25 thousand dollar signing bonus - GOD .. go fly at a regional airline for a few years and you'll realize you got it pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good at NJA.

I would like to answer this one more specifically.

I came to NetJets in November 2000 from a charter job. I took a small paycut to come here which I justified as worthwhile for future potential.

Keep in mind those were different times. I was making captains pay within a few months of my hire date. I was a released captain almost 6 months to my date of hire.

I had 2 gateways available with an easy drive from where I was living in south eastern Massachusetts.

Compare that experience with what a new-hire will have to go through if this TA passes. (it wont)

This new hire will have to pick up and move to an RCA. They wont make what I made my first year till year 4 or so. They have NO guarantee of EVER making more than 81K due to the new pay "classes".

And aside from what new hires will have to put up with there are decided set-backs in the TA for those of us who have been here for awhile.

Some people are definately here out of necessity. Others, like me,
came here out of choice. We took a gamble in the concept of fractional ownership. The fact that we continued to grow during a recession seemed to be proof that the idea was working and had a bright future. Today we have twice the number of pilots that we did when I was hired. That alone suggest phenominal potential.

So we had high expectations for this contract.

We have been let down. Big time.

Let's put it this way. A first year flight attendant on our BBJ makes about 15K more than a new hire FO. They make about 10K more than a 5 year FO. They make more than a second year captain! (talking about with our raises!)

This what what we mean by a kick in the nads, slap in the face ect...

You wouldn't be mad as hell?

 

[jppt2000]

Sctt,
By the way,
I have pretty close the same seniority as you
I too was hired in Nov 2000
I hope I'm wrong but our seniority places us in Class II category for pay
Even if you fly a bigger piece of equipment, you don't get the pay
We cap at 81K also

 

[Sctt@NJA]

I guess I will have to look at it again! Though the way I understood it, most of the people currently employed would be locked into "class IV". Since there are seniority protections in place you would be "class IV" as long as there was someone junior to you who is captain in a "class IV" airplane; X, G200, Falcon.

Only the very junior and the future hires will be subject to the lower "classes".
Correct me if I am wrong!!!!

 

[Hawk Driver]

Constructive Bid

Sctt,

The way I read the TA is that there will be a constructive bid for all the pilots. Essentially you will re-bid for your seniority in the group of planes. If after the re-bid you can still hold Class IV than you will be paid accordingly, however, if there are enough guys in front of you that can hold all of the seats open, you would be back to another Class...

Ex. 2000 Pilots on the seniority list.

You are #1000

If there are only 999 CPT's slots avail in Class IV planes, you would get the next available which would be Class III and paid accordingly.

They are calling it a constructive bid so it isn't a system flush which would cost millions. It is only a realignment for pay purposes only.

Now this is only my opinion from reading the TA.

HD

 

[Sctt@NJA]

OH MY GOD. You are correct of course. I was mistaken. Just re-read that part more carefully.

So the beauty of this deal is you can fly a Citation X and still be capped at the Ultra level.

Not like it matters. Its doomed to fail!

Oh MY GOD!!!!!!!

Its... just.... unreal.

This one little detail is just a drop in the bucket. But I am struck with fresh horror of just how bad this TA is.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

The horror is still stinking in. So the MEC wants me to agree to a new system where my ultimate pay potential goes DOWN from around 95K a year to possibly no more than 81K................ ahhhhhh..... my head is about ready to explode!!!!

 

[tripacer]

Griz

I dont have a bone to pick with you, nor am I mad. Why would I be? I just don't understand this sense of entitlement. Yes, pilots industry wide make poor wages - while management takes more than there fair share. But, did you really think you were going to be making $150k? You believed what your union was promising and the company was spewing. Welcome to the 'real' aviation industry.

I also would like to know what you mean by the "regional mindset". From my side of the tracks I am very familiar with the military mindset with regards to attititudes toward the regional industry. Again the sense of entitlement rears it's ugly head, until of course you are an ex-military pilot being furloughed from mainline - then the regionals look pretty tasty, and just to keep flying, you demand the pilot seat at a regional. How does that not constitute the same whorish behavior?

If you want to point fingers, I guess you could also scream at the guys at NJA who went the PFT (Pay-for-training) route also. Afterall, didn't that action tell management years ago that they could treat pilots anyway they wished, since they'd be willing to pay for a job at low-wages? I think we have finally come around, but it will take time to reverse the damage done.

At least you don't have ALPA negotiating your contract.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

"sense of entitlement"

Doesn't that usually refer to someone who expects things to just be handed to them?

We aren't looking for hand outs.

We are looking for honest compensation for what we do. We don't expect to be handed this, we know we need to fight for it. That our MEC has been so WEAK in this fight is what has us so disgusted.

 

[FrontierFan]

I have been watching everything pretty closely for the past couple of months and just came back from an interview. The question I have is where people are getting the idea that NJA is looking for low time instructors who "get to fly a jet for the first time" and therefor will fly for substandard pay. Here is a breakdown of the people I met at my interview:

1) Airforce (KC-135)

2) Marine Corps (Super Corbra, Beech 1900 121 time, and Citation type)

3) Piedmont Airlines (over three years on the DHC-8)

4) American Eagle (over 5 years on the E-145 and other Eagle T-props)

5) Career Charter Pilot (typed in the KA-350 who flew every Beech product except the 1900)

6) Career Charter Pilot (typed in 1900 and DHC-7)

7) Me (see profile)

I would guess that the average age was around 35. We all went through the NJA presentation that discased everything under the current contract and to my knowledge every one who was offered a job accepted. These folks were far from a CFI drooling over a jet. They were hard working professionals who did not see any future at their current employer and or had a couple of layoffs under their belt. No one is getting any younger and this contract is still better than any of us could find to work under elsewhere.



The fact is that while this TA is far off from what most people were hoping for it is still better than all of the regionals where most of us were coming from or going to.

Finding a company that has never had a furlough, no hot reserve, has good benefits, pays you day one, pays all of your uniforms, and is growing all adds up to a company that is much better than a lot of other outfits out there.

Looking at airline pilot pay I found a quick comparison for the first three years as an FO and fourth as a captain:

1) Air Wisconsin: 23, 33, 34, 41

2) American Eagle 21, 30, 32, 45

3) ASA 19, 34, 35, 66

4) Chautauqua 22, 29, 33, 61

5) Comair 23, 37, 38, 66

6) Express Jet 20, 28, 31, 57

7) Pinnicle 21, 24, 30, 60

8) PSA 21, 27, 29, 60

9) Skywest 19, 27, 28, 61

10)Trans States 22, 25, 27, 58
Regional Average:
Year 1: $21.1 Year 2: $29.4 Year 3: $31.7 Year 4: $57.5 Four year Average: $34.9

When working out this demonstration I did not take into effect companies like Colgan Air, Corporate, Great Lakes, Mesa, Mesaba, Shuttle America or Skyway. I also did not compare per-diem or benefits.

NJA new Pay scales:

Year 1: $33.5 Year 2: 34.7 Year 3: 36.0 Year 4: 65. Four year Average: $42.3

This demonstrates an average difference of $7,400/year.

Using the same criteria I compared Flight Options and came up this:

Year 1: 33.9 Year 2: 36.0 Year 3: 39.9 Year 4: 62.1 Four year Average: $42.9



I understand that everyone is frustrated. At my previous employer (also Teamsters) we had passed a 96% strike vote before our TA got finalized. I think that NJA pilots obviously deserve more but to say that it will pass because of low time pilots with no jet time who will work for nothing is a very very inaccurate observation of our industry as a whole.