New Nutjets Payscale (proposed)

[Snakeplt]

I am VERY POSITIVE that this is a joke. I am VERY POSITIVE that the MEC was just KIDDING and they are still in heavy negotiations....THIS is what they sent us...just couldn't be true...LOLOLOLOL....I am laughing through the tears !

FIRST OFFICER - 7on 7off SCHEDULE (All Classes)
YR1 - $ 33,500 Old YR1 - $ 27,108 ($6,392/yr Diff - $532/month add. pay)
YR2 - $ 34,760 Old YR2 - $ 28,368 ($6,392/yr Diff - $532/month add. pay)
YR3 - $ 36,020 Old YR3 - $ 29,628 ($6,392/yr Diff - $532/month add. pay)
YR4 - $ 37,280 Old YR4 - $ 30,888 ($6,392/yr Diff - $532/month add. pay)
YR5 - $ 38,540 Old YR5 - $ 32,160 ($6,380/yr Diff - $531/month add. pay)

FIRST OFFICER - RESERVE SCHEDULE (Old Flex) (All Classes)
YR1 - $ 39,000 Old YR1 - $ 32,364 ($6,636/yr Diff - $553/month add. pay)
YR2 - $ 40,260 Old YR2 - $ 33,624 ($6,636/yr Diff - $553/month add. pay)
YR3 - $ 41,520 Old YR3 - $ 34,884 ($6,636/yr Diff - $553/month add. pay)
YR4 - $ 42,780 Old YR4 - $ 36,144 ($6,636/yr Diff - $553/month add. pay)
YR5 - $ 44,040 Old YR5 - $ 37,404 ($6,636/yr Diff - $553/month add. pay)

CAPTAIN - 7on 7off SCHEDULE (ALL CLASSES)
YR1 - $ 41,500 Old YR1 - $ 37,560 ($3,940/yr Diff - $329/month add. pay)
YR2 - $ 44,000 Old YR2 - $ 39,816 ($4,184/yr Diff - $349/month add. pay)
YR3 - $ 53,000 Old YR3 - $ 47,208 ($5,792/yr Diff - $483/month add. pay)
YR4 - $ 65,000 Old YR4 - $ 57,996 ($7,004/yr Diff - $584/month add. pay)
YR5 - $ 69,000 Old YR5 - $ 60,984 ($8,016/yr Diff - $668/month add. pay)
YR6 - $ 71,500 Old YR6 - $ 64,188 ($7,312/yr Diff - $610/month add. pay)
YR7 - $ 74,000 Old YR7 - $ 67,560 ($6,440/yr Diff - $537/month add. pay)
YR8 - $ 80,000 Old YR8 - $ 74,496 ($5,504/yr Diff - $459/month add. pay)

CAPTAIN - RESERVE SCHEDULE (Old FLEX) (ALL CLASSES)
YR1 - $ 52,500 Old YR1 - $ 48,060 ($4,440/yr Diff - $370/month add. pay)
YR2 - $ 55,000 Old YR2 - $ 50,316 ($4,684/yr Diff - $391/month add. pay)
YR3 - $ 64,000 Old YR3 - $ 57,708 ($6,292/yr Diff - $525/month add. pay)
YR4 - $ 76,000 Old YR4 - $ 68,496 ($7,504/yr Diff - $626/month add. pay)
YR5 - $ 80,000 Old YR5 - $ 71,484 ($8,516/yr Diff - $710/month add. pay)
YR6 - $ 82,500 Old YR6 - $ 74,688 ($7,812/yr Diff - $651/month add. pay)
YR7 - $ 85,000 Old YR7 - $ 78,060 ($6,940/yr Diff - $579/month add. pay)
YR8 - $ 91,000 Old YR8 - $ 84,996 ($6,004/yr Diff - $501/month add. pay)

So if you are a COMPLETE LOSER and just can't find a job elsewhere and LOOK FORWARD to making up to $39,000 a year by year FIVE ($44k/yr on the SLAVE schedule) please apply !!! IF YOU THINK YOU WILL UPGRADE TO CPT IN UNDER FIVE YEARS YOU ARE AN IDIOT !

For those interested in the payscale AFTER year 8 (when pay by weight takes effect...you reach $100k at year TWELVE only if you fly the FALCON, the X or the G200 (Captain's Pay). YOU NEVER REACH $100k in ANY OF THE LIGHTER JETS...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL !!!!!!!!!!! (This is for the NON-SLAVE SCHEDULE)

IF you bid the SLAVE RESERVE SCHEDULE, you reach $100k at year 10 UNLESS you fly the Ultra or 400XP (these turds NEVER get to 100k). The HEAVY (so **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** funny) IRON drivers (Falcon/X/G200) get to $100k at year TEN under the SLAVE SCHEDULE...WHAT A FREAKIN' JOKE !!!! OUR UNION AND MEC ALLLLL SUCK !!!!!!!!!

IF there are any other aviation companies out there considering letting the TEAMSTERS on your property....DON'T !!! THEY SUCK !!!

 

[On Your Six]

Terrible - a huge slap in the face to all NJA pilots.... Tell those slimeball Teamsters to shove it! I would expect a big exodus from NJA in the next few months...

 

[boxhauler]

Think Twice

There are a lot of you young pilots lurking on this board that would love to fly a jet. I remember those days. I used to fly right seat in D18 in the middle of the night delivering Wall Street Journals just to fly. If you have any self worth at all, please do not come to NetJets at this time. The best thing you can do is take the interview and then turn down the job when they tell you the pay scale, or make some excuse not to accept at this time. Tell them it will be a family decision due to the pay scale and you will let them know. Wait until the dust settles and we get a decent contract.

 

[miles otoole]

Good luck convincing most drooling CFIs. They get 3 times their current pay, get to fly a jet, get benefits, get to "rub elbows", get a regular schedule, get to fly to "ASSSSSSSPENNNNNNNN-mmmmmmm, California.................", and after 3 years and 2000 + hours of turbine SIC time, make themselves very qualified for a "better" corporate job.

I have talked to more than a few young CFI studs and the PERCEPTION is that
a) This is a very tough economy, b) This is a great opportunity to gain valuable experience. "You gotta do what you gotta do." This mantra is repeated time and time again, as well as "When doctors intern, look at the pay (low) versus the effort (high) and responsibility (high).
I really don't see an answer. You will ALWAYS have very smart and motivated young college educated guys and gals who know that they must do their time in the right seat. The only way, IMHO, to steer many of these young studs away from this portion of the industry is to drop the 1st year FO pay to under $20K. Demand then might drop precipitously. Heck, $34,000? That's barely below what most college grads in other industries make in entry level jobs, all without sitting behind a desk working 50 hours a week.
I just don't see it a changin' anytime soon.

 

[milehigh6080]

Good luck convincing most drooling CFIs. They get 3 times their current pay, get to fly a jet, get benefits, get to "rub elbows", get a regular schedule . . . .

I have talked to more than a few young CFI studs and the PERCEPTION is that
a) This is a very tough economy, b) This is a great opportunity to gain valuable experience. "You gotta do what you gotta do." . . . .

I really don't see an answer. You will ALWAYS have very smart and motivated young college educated guys and gals who know that they must do their time in the right seat. The only way, IMHO, to steer many of these young studs away from this portion of the industry is to drop the 1st year FO pay to under $20K. . . . .

As one of the often maligned thousands of youngun's trying to get a break, I have to say that Miles' assesment is pretty much dead-on accurate. When you're working as a CFI for $15-20 a flight hour and you're cracking $12,000 in a good year, it's hard to look at a job as an FO at $34k and turn it down because it's sub standard. Even though we all know that it is, it's certainly much closer to the standard than we're experiencing right now.

I just recently in the past couple months started to move out of instructing, and it feels great. Not because the pay is a whole lot better, but for other reasons like a guaranteed pay and medical benefits. As an instructor, you endure weeks where the weather is bad and you can't fly much that week- so guess what, you just don't eat that week. As an instructor you bend over backwards for students who aren't putting in 1/4 of the effort that you are. As an instructor you can see a reduced student load in winter time, if you're in a slower area, or simply have a slow spell in your marketing campaign. It's rough. I'm not complaining, I wouldn't trade my time spent instructing for anything, and I never plan to let my CFI lapse. I genuinely like the actual process of instructing, but I really really despise working as a CFI, it's an awful way to make a buck.

So when you have the chance to move out of instructing, you don't walk, you run. Everyone here who has instructed at one time did the same thing, and I seriously doubt any of them left the instructing ranks to go directly into the right seat of a large business jet or a major airline. The vast majority left for a job that was far short of their eventual goal. I doubt most will even leave instructing to go to Net Jets. And that's the beginning of the problem.

From the minute we make the decision to pursue a career in flying, it quickly dawns on us that it's a long road to travel, there is a very definate ladder to be climbed. So we start off instructing because we know it will lead to the next job. We take the next job, which even though it comes with a lot of compromise, it'll give us better experience for the next job. Etc etc. As professional pilots we are all climbing or have climbed the ladder it's just part of making it as a professional pilot. There's always the mentality that it's ok to take a job because it's temporary, a means to an end. Employers understand that and it's unrealistic to assume that most of them won't exploit it. We want the most that we can get to do a job and they want to pay the minimum that they have to for us to do the job.

We constantly recieve advice from those who have gone before us and made it to a more stable point in the career- they all tell us to hold our standards high, don't work for substandard wages, don't settle for bad schedules, etc etc. But the problem is, for them to have reached the point where they feel qualified to give that advice, they have probably made the same mistakes that they turn around and warn against. It's not that the advice isn't appreciated, I and many others understand that it's being given for our own good as well as the general good of the profession, but it's very hard to take it with more than a grain of salt when everyone knows that every pilot who has made it anywhere in this field has made the same sacrifices that we're making.

Is there a solution to the whole problem? Maybe or maybe not. But that doesn't stop us from trying. As pilots we're used to identifying a problem and then immediately and decisively working to correct it. As upcoming pilots, the problem is that we have low pay and bad schedules, so we identify a position that is incrementally better and we take it and continue to look for an even better position. As pilots who are a little further along without many more levels above their current position, the solution is to band together and attempt to work with (or against) their employers to recieve better pay, work rules and benefits while blaming pilots further down on the ladder for lowering the bar. Chances are they lowered the bar themselves once when it was the best solution for them, just as their current efforts are the best solution for them now. But the solution is not going to come about that quickly or easily. At various points in climbing the ladder, we'll all look up and complain that those who went before contributed to the problem and we'll look down and complain that those below us are perpetuating it. Maybe we're all part of the problem, but I don't think that blaming those who are in the same shoes as you were a short time ago is the answer. Maybe it'll get better in the future, but it's going to be a very long process and getting overly worked up or excited about it is just going to raise your blood pressure and not really do much more good.

Milehigh

 

[tripacer]

I got one question for Griz, Snakeplt, and ALL the other posters here who are whining about the TA.

Why did you take the job 3-5 years ago, and then stay, if it's so bad at NetJets?

I guess it is because you guys can't go back to the bankrupt air carriers you came from. Do us all a favor and QUIT - PLEASE.

Bitching about a $25 thousand dollar signing bonus - GOD .. go fly at a regional airline for a few years and you'll realize you got it pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good at NJA.

 

[miles otoole]

Bitching about a $25 thousand dollar signing bonus - GOD .. go fly at a regional airline for a few years and you'll realize you got it pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good at NJA.

I agree-of course, very few will see 25,000. Entry pay at NJ is BEAuuuutiful.

 

[xrated]

Let me first say I have some good friends at Netjets and I wish them the best. But fact is, all three of the guys I know went to Netjets knowing what the pay was going to be and their long term goal was to eventually get out. I've spoken to all three in the last couple days and while they are disappointed, they are not suprised. Since they plan on leaving ASAP, they'll probably take the money and run. So with that said, they all knew it was a "stepping stone" or somthing to get them by.

Now, approx three years ago when EVERYTHING was taking a big dump, most Netjets guys were loving life. Flying cool planes, company was growing, hiring pilots,(some of which complain on this board) rich people were still rich and "Uncle Warren" was allways going to take care of them....and they were going to reap the benefits of an "Industry leading contract". IBT lapel pins and bag tags were visable at every FBO from TEB to SMO.

Punches were thrown towards furloghed airline guys, regional pilots and those who flew for other fractionals. As a pilot for a vendor of Netjets, I was even looking down the barrel of a few angry Netjets pilots....even got called a SCAB?

Fast forward a few years and here we are. All those holding out for "The BIG ONE". Well here it is folks, what are you going to do? A few select airlines are hiring, there are good corporate jobs to be had, military is trying to keep people, and some have degrees in other non aviation fields.

To those who are "Whining", you hiried on when the pay was Sh!t, what was your excuse? Why shouldn't a pilot making 18k-22k a year try to get on? And who the F@&k told you a union was going to solve your problems? What did they do for the Majors, the Auto Industry or the Steel Worker. Short term, ya things were good, but it dosen't last.....does it?

To answer a question of yours tripacer, I don't think many of the guys complaining on this board came from airlines that furloghed. Most furloghed pilots are very humbled and very appreciative of what they have. They should know. I know a couple of the Netjets pilots who post on this board seem to have come straight from military flying to NJA. Speaking from expereience, (My Grandfather, Dad, and Brother all millitary pilots), the civillian flying world can be quite a shock for many of them.

Good Luck to all those at Netjets.

 

[Snakeplt]

Interesting.

Milehigh...that was a very thoughtful and well-written piece.

SPEAKING AS A FURLOUGHED MAJOR AIRLINE PILOT AND EX-MILITARY PILOT, allow me to set the record straight with Tripacer and Xrated (who seem to have all the answers). It is truly amazing that you have actually SEEN the posted numbers above but you JUST DON'T GET IT !!! Not only is this an INSULT to the hard working NUTJET pilots currently on the payroll, this is another WEAPON that other companies can use to show that PAYCUTS are needed in every facet of aviation. OUR DEFEAT IS YOUR DEFEAT !!!

Tripacer: Some of us came here out of NECESSITY ! More of us STAYED out of HOPE. I too worked at the regionals and there ain't much difference between a GOOD regional and NUTJETS ! IF you are a Nutjets employee asking the "whiners" to QUIT, then we know you just LOVE the TA and will vote YES. If you are an OUTSIDER, who REALLY AND TRULY doesn't know the first foking thing about NUTJETS, go crawl back under the rock you stuck your stupid, ugly piehole out of !

XRated: You seem to know alot of people who know alot of people who know alot of people but YOU DON'T KNOW JACK about NUTJETS unless you work here - NOT EJM or EJI fool, but NJA !!! You are WAY OFF THE MARK on your "speculation" that ex military or ex major airline pilots are HAPPY or THANKFUL to be working at NUTJETS...yes, maybe INITIALLY after the furlough it was a good HIDING PLACE until things returned to whatever NORMAL is, but not now ! But why am I telling YOU this, you obviously seem to ALREADY KNOW all about this because of the info you have received from a friend of a friend of a friend. The real WHINERS are both of you...you are just PRAYING that enough of us quit so that you suck-ups can move right in...LOL. COME ON ADMIT IT !!! So transparent, not unusual but STILL amazing !

 

[Sctt@NJA]

We should drop the first pay to below 20k to prevent young folk from using NJA as a stepping stone????


Oh lord help us this is the mentality that will destroy us. You guys remember what our minimums are?? 2500 total time, 500 multi ect.

Not many CFIs around with those hours. Not that you can get hired with those hours anyway.

NJA is not an entry level aviation job. It just looks like one.

This is something we need to change. Paying LESS is not the answer.