New Emirates order....

[Flopgut]

"In a sign of the Gulf's increasing power in the industry, Emirates Chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum said he was confident of a shift in stance in the West that would allow the group to fly more of its planes to airports there.

"We are buying a product from their countries. So why would they not allow us to fly to these airports? If they don't, they can take their planes back," he said."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9AF0DF20131117?feedType=RSS&irpc=932

Not sure that's how it's suppose to work...

Even so, Boeing won't let Seattle workers build the airplane without pay and benefit cuts. US workers need to take a stand against this. We can't let this Sheikh leverage his airline into the US market based on buying Boeings, when at the same moment Boeing is ripping the nuts off its machinists. This is already a lose lose for the US worker, how does our government not take notice?

"Boeing pledged not to let a dispute with Seattle assembly workers over where the new 777 should be built interfere with its launch, which kicked off the November 17-21 Dubai show.

The U.S. group is looking for a home for the new jet after members of the International Association of Machinists rejected a proposed contract that would have seen Boeing commit to keeping the latest member of the 777 series near Seattle in exchange for restructured benefits."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9AF0DF20131117?feedType=RSS&irpc=932

Here's the problem from 30,000':

"ECONOMIC WEAPON OF CHOICE

The hub cities in the Gulf - Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha - are spending billions on infrastructure to draw more travelers from former hubs in Europe and Asia to the Middle East."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9AG09U20131117?feedType=RSS&irpc=6

Very poor choice of words by this author. Economic or other, it's been the weapon of choice by persons from this region before. Certainly had a lot more to do with the tipping of power in the world airline business than anything else.

 

[sniper]

"In a sign of the Gulf's increasing power in the industry, Emirates Chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum said he was confident of a shift in stance in the West that would allow the group to fly more of its planes to airports there.

"We are buying a product from their countries. So why would they not allow us to fly to these airports? If they don't, they can take their planes back," he said."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9AF0DF20131117?feedType=RSS&irpc=932

Not sure that's how it's suppose to work...

Even so, Boeing won't let Seattle workers build the airplane without pay and benefit cuts. US workers need to take a stand against this. We can't let this Sheikh leverage his airline into the US market based on buying Boeings, when at the same moment Boeing is ripping the nuts off its machinists. This is already a lose lose for the US worker, how does our government not take notice?

"Boeing pledged not to let a dispute with Seattle assembly workers over where the new 777 should be built interfere with its launch, which kicked off the November 17-21 Dubai show.

The U.S. group is looking for a home for the new jet after members of the International Association of Machinists rejected a proposed contract that would have seen Boeing commit to keeping the latest member of the 777 series near Seattle in exchange for restructured benefits."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9AF0DF20131117?feedType=RSS&irpc=932

Here's the problem from 30,000':

"ECONOMIC WEAPON OF CHOICE

The hub cities in the Gulf - Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha - are spending billions on infrastructure to draw more travelers from former hubs in Europe and Asia to the Middle East."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9AG09U20131117?feedType=RSS&irpc=6

Very poor choice of words by this author. Economic or other, it's been the weapon of choice by persons from this region before. Certainly had a lot more to do with the tipping of power in the world airline business than anything else.

Congress will tell Mahtum to buy Camels for the tourist for a tour of his great country.

BTW dont call us to help you out during the next ME conflict or war
We are not going to help you MF

 

[8sugarsugar]

Congress will tell Mahtum to buy Camels for the tourist for a tour of his great country.

BTW dont call us to help you out during the next ME conflict or war
We are not going to help you MF

so, let me understand this..... you are upset that Emirates bought 150 Boeing 777X's and because of this, America should stop being its ally?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Yep.....pretty much....

F em when Iran gets a little restless.

They have declared an economic jihad. They don't need bullets or roadside bombs to deflate the west's economy.

 

[General Lee]

so, let me understand this..... you are upset that Emirates bought 150 Boeing 777X's and because of this, America should stop being its ally?

I think you guys should buy Antonov 124s. How's this, you guys have no choice. Even though you buy A380s, Germany and France still limit you to the number of cities you can go to in those countries. Should be the same here.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[bizicmo]

See this where numbers seem to get the best of Americans. These areas you pointed out are home to around 4 billion people. Even if only 20%(it's higher than that) can afford to fly once/year, that's still 800,000,000 people. 267% the size of the US. All within 6-7 hours flight of DXB and DXB just happens to be situated in the most advantageous location. The US carriers can't compete not because of product, labor rules or pricing, it's location, location, location...... You can't convince people to buy another widget when they already have one. Especially when the quality of your widget is subpar. Many of these areas are of course poor but fly on BA, KLM, Lufthansa, EK, etc. through Africa and you will be amazed at how full first and business class is. The top duty free destination worldwide on all airlines that fly there is Lagos. Go figure.

Depending on the region 50% to 80% of the population lives on less then $2 a day. They will never fly, they are only concerned with their next meal. Just like the U.S. their income distribution will look like a pyramid with the less then $2 a day people on the bottom, the biggest level. Here in the U.S. the top 1% of the population owns some 50% of the wealth I would guess the top 1% there probably owns even a larger share. So the bottom of the pyramid makes less then $2 a day, 50% to 80%, they will never fly. The next largest group will probably be, and I am making this up, making less then $100 a day. That group will probably make the majority of the rest of the population, with the top 1% making the rest of the money. The $100 a day crowd is a lot of people that can vary from $5 a day up to $100 a day. The people on the bottom of that group will probably save their entire lifetime for maybe a couple of flights in their lifetime while the people at the top of that group will make a dozen trips in their lifetime. The homeless guy at I45 and FM 1960 is in that crowd at $5 to $100 a day and he is at the bottom of our pyramid. Yes over time they will have more people move up to what is their middle section of their pyramid and the US will have more people moving down to the bottom of our pryamid but right now we have more people traveling.

 

[Green]

There's a lot of stupid being thrown around on this thread. You guys should take some time to formulate your arguments first. So ordering 150 Billion worth of Boeing aircraft is declaring economic jihad against the West? I would imagine Boeing is throwing an epic party at the moment celebrating this order. I don't' think they feel attacked in any way. Not to mention the politicians can point to all the jobs and economic stimulus these orders will create.

yeah but what about the US airline workers? Since when has congress or the general public given two sh#ts about the fate of the average US pilot? Come on guys! Nobody cares about overpaid pilots! That's the public perception. Nobody came to the rescue when the pensions were dumped. Nobody cared when deregulation and then the rise of SWA destroyed the career expectations of airline pilots. Congress gave out ATSB loans only to the airlines that 'controlled labor costs' while the legacy airlines went bankrupt and laid off tens of thousands.

It should be patently obvious that the government and the public ONLY care about cheap airfares and good service. If Emirates can do it cheaper then you won't see anybody raising a finger to deny access. The only countries limiting frequency are those who give a sh#t about unions and workers' rights. Both of those are dirty words in the good ol USA. The writing is on the wall in big capital letters. Might as well mentally prepare for it so you are not hugely disappointed five years from now.

Oh and all this talk about lack of gates, etc. I imagine if EK can order 150 777x's plus 50 A380's they will figure out a way to buy/lease some gates. I think that might take them all of one week to sort out. I wonder how Virgin America plus all the other new airlines managed to get gates when they don't exist? The only places they can't get gates and landing rights are those where the unions have more power than the corporate lobbyists. Doesn't sound like that's the case in America.

 

[General Lee]

Green,

Your rulers have no choice. They can try to warn "if you don't let us fly to your cities, we'll return the planes..." Ok, what will you replace them with? How about Antonov 124s? How about Comac? Hilarious. If you don't like protectionism in some form, too bad.


As far as gates go, VA waits for gates at big airports. They wait for mergers, where the airlines have to divest some assets (AA/US). They can't just go in and take gates. Look at LHR. No more room, and BA doesn't want to hand over more to you. Sorry. Pick smaller cities like Kansas City, and gamble with a nonstop to Glasgow. Good luck with that...

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Green]

General,

I am all for protectionism. I think it's necessary in a global economy where capitalism will always seek the lowest cost provider. That leads to a maritime industry scenario where crews spend 9 months out of the year at sea making f#ck all.

BUT the US has made it clear they will not back their aviation workers. Point to any US politician crying out for reduced access to foreign carriers. They don't care general. That's my point. Look at the AA/US Airways merger. Do you think the department of justice was thinking how can we ensure our airlines are as strong as possible to compete on a global scale? Of course not!! They only care about the cheapest fares for joe six pack. That is the sad truth buddy! It's called REALITY.

I'm sure Obama, Bush, and any other president's cabinet would be celebrating an order for 150+ US built aircraft. So far we have ALPA raising a fuss over the looming threat of the middle east airlines. I seem to remember ALPA protesting the ill effects of deregulation, lost pensions, and the LCC's undercutting the legacies. How did that pan out for us?

 

[Green]

I'm sure the domestic US industry will be fine. But over the next decade I would bet good money that you will see legacies losing the fight over international capacity with EK, Qatar, etc. It's a big sh#t sandwich but unless we see a radical shift in policy you better plan on it.

 

[Whip Whitaker]

Good god, General Grant. 18000 posts in 11 years? That's over 4 posts a day every day for the last decade. I'm guessing you don't have much of a social life.

 

[General Lee]

I'm sure the domestic US industry will be fine. But over the next decade I would bet good money that you will see legacies losing the fight over international capacity with EK, Qatar, etc. It's a big sh#t sandwich but unless we see a radical shift in policy you better plan on it.

Not from the US. Americans don't need to fly to the Gulf to back track to Europe, or go to Asia. You may affect the European carriers, but not us. And plucking certain one way routes, like MXP to JFK, will have very little affect. The European countries will become more stringent if you really start affecting them. Your next turn will be to overtake Africa. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Good god, General Grant. 18000 posts in 11 years? That's over 4 posts a day every day for the last decade. I'm guessing you don't have much of a social life.

This type of response usually comes from someone who cannot debate. I usually do multiple responses each time I log on, so you are wrong. Guys like you don't want people to do something they enjoy also. That is sad....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Green]

General,

I think EK has already severely disrupted the european carriers. The big European hubs are being replaced by DXB. Instead of flying to Heathrow or Paris and then on to Asia, India, or Africa passengers are making one stop in Dubai then heading wherever.

MXP-JFK is just the first of many. The biggest impediment to Emirates at the moment is a lack of available aircraft. Once more airframes start arriving I think you will see Spain-USA, UK-USA, and Asia-USA. Given the capacity constraints at Dubai the logical response will be to open more routes which do not touch the hub.

When given a choice between a better product at a cheaper price or a US legacy I'm guessing most pax will choose EK. Possibly not those who are tied to a frequent flyer program. Lets see how the next 5 to 10 years pans out. EK is reaching critical mass and the brand is gaining awareness in the US. It's the last piece of the puzzle for Emirates.

 

[General Lee]

General,

I think EK has already severely disrupted the european carriers. The big European hubs are being replaced by DXB. Instead of flying to Heathrow or Paris and then on to Asia, India, or Africa passengers are making one stop in Dubai then heading wherever.

MXP-JFK is just the first of many. The biggest impediment to Emirates at the moment is a lack of available aircraft. Once more airframes start arriving I think you will see Spain-USA, UK-USA, and Asia-USA. Given the capacity constraints at Dubai the logical response will be to open more routes which do not touch the hub.

When given a choice between a better product at a cheaper price or a US legacy I'm guessing most pax will choose EK. Possibly not those who are tied to a frequent flyer program. Lets see how the next 5 to 10 years pans out. EK is reaching critical mass and the brand is gaining awareness in the US. It's the last piece of the puzzle for Emirates.

Wow, World domination is on your mind.... The European carriers are going to set up defenses, and if it doesn't work, then the Govts will continue to clamp down. It's just basic economics and politics. Enough complaints to the leaders, and they may not stay as leader too long. Dubai has a problem though, actually many, namely Doha, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, and others. Everyone over there is trying for the same thing, connecting pax. The European airlines will have to get their financials in order, but when they do, nonstops will trump Gulf connections. You are also going up against airlines like Singapore, Malaysian, Air Asia, Garuda, etc. They have lower costs than you do. All the Gulf carriers will mainly compete against themselves, and it will crush you.


And, keep trying with Europe to the US routes, like, laughably, Birmingham to BOS. Yeah, keep it going.... Very interesting...


Bye Bye---General Lee