New ABX Contract

[HeavyjetDC8]

Muddy waters at best with perhaps a bit of revisionist history going on. If the one with the troublesome pants did however utter the phrases as stated then fighting words they would certainly be.

And as for fighting words, something of a threat aimed at you-know-who on the Astar hotline and web site.

A familiar song of Polar/Atlas battle lines - whose freight is it?

I mean, If I were to fly an Astar aircraft full of DHL freight during a strike then yes, I'm a scab.
But if I fly my ABX aircraft full of DHL freight during a strike then I'm simply doing my job. Feel free to quote the last sentence and if wrong, tell me why.

The hotline would imply that alpa now speaks for and stands in judgment of all flight crew having arrogated wide new sweeping powers unto itself. Way to go alpo.

So, say UAL is on strike and their passengers rebook on DAL. Is the DAL flightcrew now in violation of alpa dictates?

I ask because it's best to get this sorted out before the crap hits the fan rather than during with endless argument afterward.

Exactly what does a striking Astar want from ABX?

 

[penguin22]

Just pay attention to what the attorneys are saying. Its all right here:

http://www.nlrb.gov/research/decisions/board_decisions/template_html.aspx?file=http://www.nlrb.gov/shared_files/Board%20Decisions/345/345-51.htm&size=164

These are all direct quotes:

"ALPA has sought, in its grievance and in its federal court counterclaim, to enforce an interpretation and application of the scope clause in its collective-bargaining agreement with DHL Worldwide and DHL Holdings in the following manner: to require DHL Holdings and DHL Worldwide to terminate its subsidiary’s contract with ABX, pursuant to which ABX provides flying services for Airborne, flying that has traditionally and is presently being done by Teamsters members, and to assign this flying to ALPA members.

ABX is the primary employer in ALPA’s grievance and counterclaim because ALPA seeks the ABX flying positions for its members.

In the present case, the tactical object of ALPA’s grievance and counterclaim is the air transportation service performed by the Teamsters pilots who work for ABX.

ALPA filed an answer and counterclaim seeking (1) an order to compel expedited arbitration of its grievance with DHL Holdings and DHL Worldwide, and (2) an injunction to restrain DHL Holdings and its subsidiaries from contracting air transportation services to ABX

The Respondent’s grievance and counterclaim have the clear object of forcing DHL/Airborne to cease doing business with ABX

During the course of that hearing, ALPA reiterated and made clear its position that only ALPA members employed by ASTAR could fly the freight for Airborne that had previously and was presently being flown by the Teamsters Union flight crews of ABX.


. In the present case, ALPA is allegedly threatening DHL Holdings and its subsidiaries, employers within the meaning of Section 2(2), (6), and (7) of the NLRA, with the object of forcing these employers to stop doing business with ABX

ALPA’s actions “were an unambiguous attempt to force [DHL], a neutral employer, to cease doing business with [ABX]

4. By filing a grievance and a counterclaim against DHL Holdings and DHL Worldwide with an object to force or require DHL Holdings and DHL Worldwide to cease doing business with ABX, Inc

Indeed, the result of the Respondent’s success would be to create a large number of new jobs for ASTAR "

 

[hvydriver]

Well, like I said before, we were trying to stop the deal. We did that after your most excellent President said what he said. If you believe me or not, I really don't care. If you bother to look at my posts over the past year or so, you will find that I have been even handed and fair. If that's not enough, so be it. We've got our mission. You go do what you think might be the right thing to do, and we'll see where it goes. I'm done.

 

[erichartmann]

Well, like I said before, we were trying to stop the deal. We did that after your most excellent President said what he said. If you believe me or not, I really don't care. If you bother to look at my posts over the past year or so, you will find that I have been even handed and fair. If that's not enough, so be it. We've got our mission. You go do what you think might be the right thing to do, and we'll see where it goes. I'm done.

I think you should check your dates and times. As I recall the initial ALPO lawsuit and Joe's countersuit were filed before President Pants assumed the position.

 

[hvydriver]

I think you should check your dates and times. As I recall the initial ALPO lawsuit and Joe's countersuit were filed before President Pants assumed the position.

Oops, you are right Eric. It was the Pres. prior to Pres. Pants. It's been awhile now. It was Nov. of 03. My bad. It was at the Heritage Resturant in Cincy. We filed, took a merger assessment, DHL sued, then ABX jumped on, and then the former Pres. said that at the Heritage. It's starting to be like playing telephone.

 

[JohnnyPilot]

What did pants say at the Heritage?

 

[Cargoav8or]

Honestly guys, we don't need you to picket with us. The lawsuit is irrelevant in this case. You just have to decide whether you want to be a scab or maintain your integrity. The lawsuit will continue. You and I, everyone for that matter, knows that no court will take your jobs from you and award them to us. You, your management are losing your jobs on your own with your spirit of noncooperation. Not performance, not fleet, cooperation. I know ABF knew how to do it. You have fought DHL at every turn, deicing, atc, "c" containers and the list goes on. This is info from first hand accounts of people who were at those meetings. I have even witnessed some of your boys while on a jumpseat stop short of the unloader and say "f**k DHL, they can move it themselves". Whether you like it or not you are employees and ABX does not call the shots. Dasburg in meetings has stated that he does not like many things DHL has done but he knows his place and is being rewarded for it. You are being slowly kicked to the curb from your own doing and the current situation with us is one more form on noncooperation. We have asked plenty of times, so now we make points and hope you notice. Seems you caught this one, good job.

I've never heard from any MEC member that the intent was to take a job from you. Our intent as described to me was that we did not want the sale at all. Unfortunately, alpa apparently had other motives and blunders. News flash, many of us dislike alpa as much as you, but the case has no choice but to continue on now. We must try to be made whole at least monetarily. I am sorry for the angst it has caused between the groups, but as shooter said, were not freight dogs because were all cuddly, or something to that effect.

Flame away, I have no doubt you will. God forbid you should step back and take an honest assessment of the situation. None of us are better off against each other but if we have to be, I'm batting for Asstar.

 

[hvydriver]

I mean, If I were to fly an Astar aircraft full of DHL freight during a strike then yes, I'm a scab.
But if I fly my ABX aircraft full of DHL freight during a strike then I'm simply doing my job. Feel free to quote the last sentence and if wrong, tell me why.

The hotline would imply that alpa now speaks for and stands in judgment of all flight crew having arrogated wide new sweeping powers unto itself. Way to go alpo.

I've got a great idea. Instead of asking us line dogs, why don't you ask your President? The definition of struck work in our instance was agreed upon by all ALPA carriers at the Cargo meeting, and by your leadership. He should be able to tell you precisely what it is. If not, I suppose we could trot out a letter from FedEx, Kitty Hawk, etc, testifying that your guys were there, and did agree on it.

 

[GoABX]

Read the WORDS

I keep hearing "I know the words say this, but this is what we really want."

The words of lawsuit say I want ALL of your sh!t, and you can have none. (DHL cannot do business with ABX, ABX will essentially be shutdown and all of us will be unemployed with the exception of a few dozen ANA guys)

The Astar pilots' words are 1) we are defending scope, 2) we are trying to force a merger, 3) Don't worry we can't carry the freight anyway.

If a judge rules in your favor, but realizing Astar can't instantaneously get 60 planes.....allows DHL 12 months to comply. (i.e. ABX will slowly be terminated) Will Astar pilots then have a job action to save our jobs? No, you guys will hit the lottery, double in size, and say "Sorry, Dude, that is too bad."


Everyone is say why can't we get along. But if you read what the words of ALPA lawsuit say, it is shocking we have gotten along this well. If someone came into my house and did this, they would not fair so well.

BY YOUR ACTIONS YOU ARE TRYING TO DESTROY US. BY YOUR WORDS YOU SAY YOU DON'T MEAN IT.

 

[penguin22]

Oops, you are right Eric. It was the Pres. prior to Pres. Pants. It's been awhile now. It was Nov. of 03. My bad. It was at the Heritage Resturant in Cincy. We filed, took a merger assessment, DHL sued, then ABX jumped on, and then the former Pres. said that at the Heritage. It's starting to be like playing telephone.

So the comment by our Pres that you’ve been using to justify your legal job grab was made AFTER you guys were already in court. Any self respecting union president would say the same thing to somebody who’s in court trying to steal our jobs

Here’s the timeline: You said yourself the comment was made Nov of 03, at the Heritage Restaurant

24. On June 16, 2003, ALPA sent a letter to John Fellows, CEO of DHL Holdings and DHL Worldwide.
25. Fellows responded to ALPA in an undated letter sent on or about June 27, 2003.
26. Pursuant to the correspondence referred to in paragraphs 24 and 25, a meeting was held on August 7 between representatives of DHL Holdings, DHL Worldwide, and ALPA.
27. At the conclusion of the meeting of August 7, 2003, the ALPA representatives handed the DHL representatives a letter and grievance dated August 7.
28. On August 11, 2003, DHL Holdings and DHL Worldwide filed a complaint against ALPA in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York.
29. On August 18, 2003, ALPA filed an Answer and Counter Claims for Immediate Injunctive Relief. ALPA also filed a motion for a temporary restraining order and a preliminary injunction. That entire action is now stayed pending resolution of the instant charge