New ABX Contract

[hvydriver]

Lift is everything and speaks volumes.

That's unfortunately the response I expected. ALPA cannot let a ruling stand that states they are a Labor Organization. We're not counting on any help from 1224, no matter what your latest hotline says.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

If I gave the response you unfortunately expected do please enlighten me as to the response you wished for. Keep it sensible.

 

[hvydriver]

The "lift is everything" statement. Taken as written, it would seem to imply that ABX will simply run as much DHL material as possible, should we go on strike.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

No. It's an invitation to talk to the peer group with whom you share a common interest without the hand of ALPO national up your rear end using you as a puppet.

On the subject of struck goods. Why bring a suit against the one carrier whose support could make or break you which renders the cost of said support unemployment for that carriers pilot group?

 

[shooter]

The "lift is everything" statement. Taken as written, it would seem to imply that ABX will simply run as much DHL material as possible, should we go on strike.

wait a minute hvy...you want ALL DHL lift to be Astar, but expect others that currently provide lift for DHL to stop because you are not getting all the lift? Please explain that to me.

 

[hvydriver]

wait a minute hvy...you want ALL DHL lift to be Astar, but expect others that currently provide lift for DHL to stop because you are not getting all the lift? Please explain that to me.

Sigh. One last time, and I'm done talking to the wall. There is no suit against ABX. Only a grievance against DHL. The "lawsuit" that was filed was ABX against ALPA for an Unfair Labor Practice charge. If successful, that suit will gut any and all scope language at all ALPA carriers. Our Sect.1 grievance was filed against DHL prior to the buy of ABX in an attempt to stop the purchase. I've not posted why we did it before but I'm going to now, because the reason we did it isn't pretty. Then I'm done trying to talk reason. When our MEC approached your President (the one with the pants trouble) back when the buyout talks were in progress about forming an alliance, he told our reps. that: "We're not interested. Not only are we going to take all your flying, we're going to take over all of Europe's as well." Now, with a response like that, you bet we were trying to stop the purchase with a grievance. Now, thanks to Joe, all Scope language under the RLA is at risk. Good luck.

 

[shooter]

Sigh. One last time, and I'm done talking to the wall. There is no suit against ABX. Only a grievance against DHL. The "lawsuit" that was filed was ABX against ALPA for an Unfair Labor Practice charge. If successful, that suit will gut any and all scope language at all ALPA carriers. Our Sect.1 grievance was filed against DHL prior to the buy of ABX in an attempt to stop the purchase. I've not posted why we did it before but I'm going to now, because the reason we did it isn't pretty. Then I'm done trying to talk reason. When our MEC approached your President (the one with the pants trouble) back when the buyout talks were in progress about forming an alliance, he told our reps. that: "We're not interested. Not only are we going to take all your flying, we're going to take over all of Europe's as well." Now, with a response like that, you bet we were trying to stop the purchase with a grievance. Now, thanks to Joe, all Scope language under the RLA is at risk. Good luck.

thanks for the response.

I guess my questions should be how do you plan to resolve the grievance against DHL? Is it with ABX or at the expense of ABX? And how are you currently going forward to the resolution with regard to the above?

I agree w/you that response is pretty crappy and uncalled for as presented. Is that the reason your whole group currently has that exact same mind set?

I'm just asking questions here, so don't take any of it as flame bait.

 

[hvydriver]

thanks for the response.

I guess my questions should be how do you plan to resolve the grievance against DHL? Is it with ABX or at the expense of ABX? And how are you currently going forward to the resolution with regard to the above?

I agree w/you that response is pretty crappy and uncalled for as presented. Is that the reason your whole group currently has that exact same mind set?

I'm just asking questions here, so don't take any of it as flame bait.

Shooter,

Yes, that is the reason that we feel the way we do. Quite honestly, we haven't spoken of that publically before because we feel that it would be playing right into DHL/ABX/Astar's hands. (The whole divide and conquer strategy.) However, now is the time to "Cowboy Up". As far as the DHL grievance goes, IF ALPA is successful in getting the Unfair Labor Practice charge overturned in the 9th circuit, we will proceed back to the 2nd Circuit, and continue with the grievance against DHL. (all of that, as you are aware, will most likely take years to resolve.) If they are unsuccessful in the 9th circuit, then any CBA that was signed prior to the infamous Ross Aviation group being removed from ALPA representation will have a scope clause that is unenforceable. As you know from all of my previous threads on this subject, we never intended to "kill" ABX. What we do expect is to be made whole monetarily by DHL. Fat chance of that, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[shooter]

Shooter,

Yes, that is the reason that we feel the way we do. Quite honestly, we haven't spoken of that publically before because we feel that it would be playing right into DHL/ABX/Astar's hands. (The whole divide and conquer strategy.) However, now is the time to "Cowboy Up". As far as the DHL grievance goes, IF ALPA is successful in getting the Unfair Labor Practice charge overturned in the 9th circuit, we will proceed back to the 2nd Circuit, and continue with the grievance against DHL. (all of that, as you are aware, will most likely take years to resolve.) If they are unsuccessful in the 9th circuit, then any CBA that was signed prior to the infamous Ross Aviation group being removed from ALPA representation will have a scope clause that is unenforceable. As you know from all of my previous threads on this subject, we never intended to "kill" ABX. What we do expect is to be made whole monetarily by DHL. Fat chance of that, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

thx, I have never heard any of that happened before. But then again I'm not really in the know.

I'm just trying like heck to sharpen my business mind and get ready to open my doors by next summer. I hope to be working at ABX until I retire, but you never know and I need to do something else with my time anyhow. I will hope for both and never follow a DHL business model for myself.

No offense, but I'm batting for ABX until the game is over. Would be nice to work with Astar instead of being at a competitive level, but I think that ball is in your court to act first right now.

c ya, good luck.

 

[erichartmann]

Whatever. ALPA National won't let go of that suit, because if they let it stand, then it will defeat scope language in any and all ALPA agreements. You can thank Joe's attorneys for that. To beat a dead horse, check the dates. It was filed prior to DHL's purchase of ABE. Remember though, no concessionary contracts!

Yeah right! Joe's attorneys didn't file the initial lawsuit. Yours did. That suit was an attempt to get a grievance settled. How that would have ended up is anybody's guess. Bottom line is it looked like you were/are trying to take our jobs. Actions speak louder than words. Your actions serioiusly p.oed a lot of people you would like to have help from now. By filing both the grievance and the subsequent lawsuit you played right into DHL's hands, and put us in the same boat. You also gave Joe and Ford & Harrison a nifty trump to play on scope. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Can you say poorly thought through? :uzi: