NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

[glasspilot]

Everyone should stop trying to stop benifits that don't affect them. I don't begrudge anyone getting a benifit.

If airline guys airline pays for parking then how's that affect me? It doesn't. Let 'em have it.

If I go through the crew lane then how that affect airline guys? It doesn't. Let us have it.

Jumpseat, in a perfect world, would work with the fractionals. There would be a master website or 800 number that guys could call and see what's open. A dead leg would be open and any fractional / airline guy could sign up on a first come first serve basis. It's not that hard.

Ya'll need to stop shooting fod across the barriers and start embracing your brothers. We do occupy the same airspace.

If anyone of you saw a plane in flames at the end of a runway would you think, "ahh..it's just one of those guys..." or would you think, "God, I hope that pilot and his passengers got out okay.."

Get it? We do the same job really...

 

[gunfyter]

This is not about we are not the same type of pilot nor should it be, this is about reciprocity plain and simple. ... I'm sorry to bring this to your attention but when you and I commute as passengers our status is that of a passenger.

I don't see that TSA has anything to do with reciprocity. It has to do with Security. It is a waste of time and here is why.

Its not that we go through the pax line. Its that we go through the selectee line. TSA is wasting their time strip searching pilots for too big a shampoo bottle that they could be devoting to people who do not have the 10 yr background checks etc..

After all the selectee searching ... I commute to a place where a jet is waiting for me to fly. What did they accomplish?

I don't care either way ... but right now every time I walk through the pax line ... TSA sends me to the crew line anyway. This will make it a lot easier for them (TSA) ... easier for everyone... since we have the same background checks and employment requirements as everyone else. It would be the smart thing to do.

 

[Diesel]

Look Diesel, I'm not rooting against you. But to say things will never change is a stretch. Never is a long time. You guys gripe and bawl about your seats all the time. Here's an idea: Buy a first class seat!! We do offer a higher level of service. We just want you to pay for it, OK? I'm sure you've had a entry level customer want a GIV experience at a CE-500 price, right? Well, that's getting to be what we're seeing out of you. Airlines have taken enough capacity out of the market and the seats are selling. If it ain't you guys at full fare y class it'll be somebody else. I haven't noticed too many upgrade only types filling up FC either, so somebody is buying the seats. You want more service? Cough up more money. I think we could both agree, there's nothing worse than a fussy customer who wants more service than they pay for?

Ummm lets see I'm elite with about every hotel and airline there is out there. So yes I fly first class most the time because of upgrades but I also fly first international because thats what I mostly do. Your higher level of service sucks. It never will compare to Virgin, BA, AF, or Singapore to name a few.

This has to do with security not airlines jump seat.... speaking of which why would we want to use it when I've got more damn airline miles than I know what to do with.

VOR is trying to start a fight with the fractional and airline guys. His thread title sucks and some NJ pilot must have pissed in his cereal.

Nothing to see here. I get paid either way to stand in line or not I could care less.

 

[gunfyter]

VOR ... was an anti-union, Kenn's Kool-Aide drinker who believed that "You guys don't need a union ... whatever NJ union gets in their next CBA ... i'll give you NJ + 10% I am the best MEC you guys could ever want." Yes he believed it.

Well when the 2005 NJA CBA came out ... VOR's management renegged on its promises. NO RAISES! He switched over to the Union supporter's side. We helped him get his pilot group unionized ... but I guess he thought WE would negotiate the contract for him too.

And thats VOR in a nutshell.

 

[JungleJett]

Hey VOR...

Get upstairs and do your homework. Only then will be allowed to play Dungeons and Dragons.

Leave the pilots alone.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Its not that we go through the pax line. Its that we go through the selectee line. TSA is wasting their time strip searching pilots for too big a shampoo bottle that they could be devoting to people who do not have the 10 yr background checks etc

You can argue that you deserve special treatment all you want but at the end of the day you are a passenger on a flight, what you do for a living is irrelevant even if it happens to be flying

 

[ackattacker]

I hate to wade into such an uncivilized thread...

However it seems the NetJets guys are saying "we don't want to jumpseat, we just want in on Crewpass when it comes out so we can breeze through security. Why would 121 pilots care?"

Well, I'm pretty sure Crewpass is intended for *working crewmembers.* If everybody and there uncle is in Crewpass then it makes for a line at the Crewpass door, defeating the purpose.

It's academic though because I highly doubt even 121 pilots will ever be able to bypass security when they are off duty. I'm in CASS right now but if I bought an actual ticket with cash at the last minute I'd still be a selectee, CASS wouldn't help one bit and I doubt CrewPass would either. If you want to breeze through security and not be selectee's, you should be working on the Registered Traveller program.

 

[gunfyter]

You can argue that you deserve special treatment all you want but at the end of the day you are a passenger on a flight, what you do for a living is irrelevant even if it happens to be flying

I don't want any special treatment "on the flight".

I want access to the airport. An issue between us and TSA. Not between us and any airlines. So that WE can better conduct our business... which is at every airport in the country.

If you look at the list of CASS members you see non-scheduled freight companies like for example Murray Air. They have as much business in the Airline terminal portion of the airport as we do.

I just want the same access to the airport the Murrays, Airnet, and USA JET have. They are not the only ones.

 

[Flopgut]

Ummm lets see I'm elite with about every hotel and airline there is out there. So yes I fly first class most the time because of upgrades but I also fly first international because thats what I mostly do. Your higher level of service sucks. It never will compare to Virgin, BA, AF, or Singapore to name a few.

This has to do with security not airlines jump seat.... speaking of which why would we want to use it when I've got more damn airline miles than I know what to do with.

VOR is trying to start a fight with the fractional and airline guys. His thread title sucks and some NJ pilot must have pissed in his cereal.

Nothing to see here. I get paid either way to stand in line or not I could care less.

Then you should feel more than welcome to stay the ******************** off my airline.

 

[popgoesbubble]

If anyone of you saw a plane in flames at the end of a runway would you think, "ahh..it's just one of those guys..." or would you think, "God, I hope that pilot and his passengers got out okay.."

If it was Voice of Reason B19 or Instructordude I think I'd be playing U2 "It's a Beautiful Day" and Buying a few rounds of these at the Hotel Bar for every Flight crew:beer:

For the record I dont think Frac crew's should use the Crew lines. When I airline to or from work in Uniform I nicely refuse the crew line when TSA waves me over. It's not in my best interest if I miss my flight on Day 7 home I am nicely compansated by the Company.

 

[JungleJett]

Fellow frac guys/gals...

Let this die. It will not be decided here and this thread is serving no purpose. I took part in it and am as responsible as the next guy...but I am done.

We do not have much say in it and neither do the 121 guys.

 

[CA1900]

Fellow frac guys/gals...

Let this die...

That's worked so well for the other threads... :laugh:

 

[Flopgut]

Dude, I'm not "shining you on" or whatever. I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't even know who Santulli is. I do not work for NetJets.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about fractional pilots wanting special perks from the flight crew or in flight crew. The only "perk" that I really want is the dang crew lane at the security checkpoint. That doesn't really affect you does it?

I would like nothing more than to give rides to airline guys. Show up to my plane on a dead leg and your going. I do understand though that without a schedule that would be hard for you to get to. Maybe something could be done with an 800 number or a web site or something. Someone commented about owners not wanting their "asset" used. That's crap as I know pilots would treat the plane like gold.

Anyway, I'm not trying to dis any of you 121 guys. I rode Independence Air to the ground so I know first hand the life of the 121 side of the world.

Can't we all just get along?

It takes about three seconds after saying hello to a NJA guy til they start complaining about your airline. The instant you identify them as a crewmember, they stick their ticket in your face. The moment you identify them as a customer they wave their ID in your face. They are obviously spoiled and confused. They fly people around who expect and recieve outstanding service, but that's not who they are. Despite what they THINK.

One of these NJA clowns made a spectacle of themselves in the boarding area the other day because we didn't let him board with the crew. That's no joke. Another recent problem I had with NJA guy: We had a crew swap in Newark and the load FA came down to the plane and was sobbing. She had come from another flight and a NJA pilot went off on her for a sticker she was wearing. It was election day and her "I voted" sticker had a particuliar political affiliation to it. The NJA pilot got in her face and screamed how offended he was. He went from zero to total exaggeration in a nano second. She took the sticker off right away but this guy didn't let up. He did wait until they were airborne but he sought her out during the service and made it known he was former airline and he was sure that what she had done seriously contradicted airline policy and that he was going to get her fired. Hour and a half flight and this guy wouldn't stop snearing at her. It was pure and simple intimidation after a certain point. She explained to me that finally another pilot asked the guy to cool it. And he did. I don't think she realized it, but I think it was this guys' other pilot crewmember. Then, at the top of the jetway the guy went at her again. Look, she probably shouldn't have worn the sticker. When it was pointed out to her that it had a particuliar affiliation, she took it off and apologized. That correction should have been enough. I have become newly proud of my FAs in recent years as I think they do a pretty good job and put up with a lot of crap. Some of them are durable sorts, and some a pretty delicate. This NJA toolbag ripped into a lady that was dealing with a lot and he damm near shattered her. Listen up: If any of you NJA guys have a problem with the FA that you can't handle in two or three polite sentences, you go find the captain after landing. OK? Don't escalate it. Cause if you do, and it's me or a captain like me, it's going to get interesting.

We airline types aren't riding on your equipment making your at duty, non-deadhead time suck. What else do we have to do for you? We're doing a harder job for a lot less money than we used to...AND we're still doing it pretty well. Especially these FAs.

BTW Glasspilot 99% of that post was not aimed at you. Just got on a roll.

 

[FLYLOW22]

YAWN...

Doesn't ALPA have much larger, more pressing issues to deal with like...

defining SENIORITY RIGHTS for it's members.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Flopgut, So this guy was a tool.

In my experience, about 98.7 percent of fractional and corporate pilots are respectful and appreciative of their airline colleagues every time they travel. I know I am since I'm married to a major airline pilot that has lived through furlough (twice), bankruptcy, and a strike. It has also been my experience that about 98.7 percent of airline pilots and flight attendants are respectful and appreciative of the fractional pilots and the full fare business they bring their airline.

The fact that Netjets and NJASAP are seeking certification through the CASS program for Netjets pilots should be of ZERO importance to any 121 crewmember. We are not seeking access to the jumpseat. We are simply seeking recognition from the TSA that we ARE NOT A SECURITY THREAT and their time and effort would be better spent screening other passengers. Netjets pilots have been repeatedly vetted through various security protocols and it is a waste of resources for the TSA to re-screen us.

This is not a plea for "special treatment." It is simply an application through the appropriate channels to help the TSA DO THEIR JOB more effectively. Any certificated carrier that is willing to open their crew database to the program and pay the associated costs can be considered for participation.

VOR has his panties in a wad because Netjets is once again doing the heavy lifting in making this happen. Once this process is successfully completed, his employer will also be able to apply for entry into the program and he and his pilot group will also be spared the eye-rolling futility of performing the "double bend-over" on crewmembers that pose ZERO security threat to the system.

Clearly, VOR is part of the 1.3 percent that muck up the system for everyone. PROFESSIONAL COURTESY is the guiding principle for me and I believe also for most of the aviation community.

WE DO NOT WANT THE JUMPSEAT. Netjets' application to CASS is simply an effort to make the system work better for EVERYONE.

 

[Full of LUV]

I'd be careful.....

It takes about three seconds after saying hello to a NJA guy til they start complaining about your airline. The instant you identify them as a crewmember, they stick their ticket in your face. The moment you identify them as a customer they wave their ID in your face. They are obviously spoiled and confused. They fly people around who expect and recieve outstanding service, but that's not who they are. Despite what they THINK.

One of these NJA clowns made a spectacle of themselves in the boarding area the other day because we didn't let him board with the crew. That's no joke. Another recent problem I had with NJA guy: We had a crew swap in Newark and the load FA came down to the plane and was sobbing. She had come from another flight and a NJA pilot went off on her for a sticker she was wearing. It was election day and her "I voted" sticker had a particuliar political affiliation to it. The NJA pilot got in her face and screamed how offended he was. He went from zero to total exaggeration in a nano second. She took the sticker off right away but this guy didn't let up. He did wait until they were airborne but he sought her out during the service and made it known he was former airline and he was sure that what she had done seriously contradicted airline policy and that he was going to get her fired. Hour and a half flight and this guy wouldn't stop snearing at her. It was pure and simple intimidation after a certain point. She explained to me that finally another pilot asked the guy to cool it. And he did. I don't think she realized it, but I think it was this guys' other pilot crewmember. Then, at the top of the jetway the guy went at her again. Look, she probably shouldn't have worn the sticker. When it was pointed out to her that it had a particuliar affiliation, she took it off and apologized. That correction should have been enough. I have become newly proud of my FAs in recent years as I think they do a pretty good job and put up with a lot of crap. Some of them are durable sorts, and some a pretty delicate. This NJA toolbag ripped into a lady that was dealing with a lot and he damm near shattered her. Listen up: If any of you NJA guys have a problem with the FA that you can't handle in two or three polite sentences, you go find the captain after landing. OK? Don't escalate it. Cause if you do, and it's me or a captain like me, it's going to get interesting.

We airline types aren't riding on your equipment making your at duty, non-deadhead time suck. What else do we have to do for you? We're doing a harder job for a lot less money than we used to...AND we're still doing it pretty well. Especially these FAs.

BTW Glasspilot 99% of that post was not aimed at you. Just got on a roll.

If I were a frac guy, I'd be careful about getting the jumpseat. Next contract could start back to no more home base direction with the company saying, we'll give you a day to jumpseat to the gateway, etc. As Deisel claimed you have more miles than god, why would you want to risk taking a jumpseat privledge and dealing with jumpseating to/from work? If I had unlimited airline miles from two or three majors, I'd give up any jumpseat privledge in a heartbeat. Today, you can reserve any empty seat on any airline with enough miles, who needs an offline jumpseat access with that kind of power?

 

[kman]

If I were a frac guy, I'd be careful about getting the jumpseat. Next contract could start back to no more home base direction with the company saying, we'll give you a day to jumpseat to the gateway, etc. As Deisel claimed you have more miles than god, why would you want to risk taking a jumpseat privledge and dealing with jumpseating to/from work? If I had unlimited airline miles from two or three majors, I'd give up any jumpseat privledge in a heartbeat. Today, you can reserve any empty seat on any airline with enough miles, who needs an offline jumpseat access with that kind of power?

Don't think its going to happen anytime soon, a lot of guys would rather take a pay cut than go back to the old system.

And this has nothing to do with jumpseating, you guys just don't listen. It has to do with crewpass and flying into DCA.

why would the company risk a saleoff (heard this can cost as much as 50k) for sake of saving lets say a 500.00 walk up fare? There is no way the company function with not knowing if guys had confirmed seats on flight, since we don't have any hubs(besides Tetorhole). Jumpseating would be just too risky for getting crews to their aircraft relably.

 

[Full of LUV]

Not what I was saying....

Don't think its going to happen anytime soon, a lot of guys would rather take a pay cut than go back to the old system.

And this has nothing to do with jumpseating, you guys just don't listen. It has to do with crewpass and flying into DCA.

why would the company risk a saleoff (heard this can cost as much as 50k) for sake of saving lets say a 500.00 walk up fare? There is no way the company function with not knowing if guys had confirmed seats on flight, since we don't have any hubs(besides Tetorhole). Jumpseating would be just too risky for getting crews to their aircraft relably.

Not saying the company would use j/s to get you to your assignment, just saying that if after you have J/S for awhile, company says lets require all new pilots to live in a major airline hub, or all, that way we can begin on day one with a one leg flight to assignment. When you say, but I live in peoria, they say, too bad, jumpseat. That is in essence how the 121 world works now!
Luv

 

[imacdog]

So you're not going to cough up $25 bucks for extra service/comfort, but you're going to cry and complain if you're not made to feel special? Fine. Take your coach seat and STFU.

My rep will call ALPA National. ALPA National can explain to oversight that what you guys are doing is dilluting a legitimate program for personal/corporate gain. AND, despite the fact you've been around for years and are in the transportation business, you've not lifted a finger to try to be a helpful hand.

Just to make sure we're clear, as this conversation has been very informative and enlightening. You are the one who wants me and other professional pilots to volunteer to sit in the exit row. Remember, you are asking this because in general, a professional pilot would probably of more help in operating the exit and evacuating passengers in the event of an emergency. As a reminder, this was your post:

You know I always have wondered why the fractional guys don't volunteer as exit row occupants, or able bodied frequent flyers or the like?

I say, I would be happy to assist but am not willing to pay out of pocket to sit in that row when my coach ticket already has me in about the same level of comfort. You now think I am whining and complaining, and should STFU.

What am I missing here?

 

[Flopgut]

Just to make sure we're clear, as this conversation has been very informative and enlightening. You are the one who wants me and other professional pilots to volunteer to sit in the exit row. Remember, you are asking this because in general, a professional pilot would probably of more help in operating the exit and evacuating passengers in the event of an emergency. As a reminder, this was your post:



I say, I would be happy to assist but am not willing to pay out of pocket to sit in that row when my coach ticket already has me in about the same level of comfort. You now think I am whining and complaining, and should STFU.

What am I missing here?

Some large corporate clients do care more about the operation and quite selflessly want to be part of the solution. They aren't pilots and they aren't seeking (what amounts to) extraordinarily priviledged treatment. You've been among the least attentive and dejected group of customers any airline has. And you've been that way for a long time. When you compare this to what you asking for it is really unbelievable.

The only people who should get what you're asking for should do so because they want to act out of an abundance of regard for the entire operation. You're about the furthest thing from that.

I'm about done with this thread. I don't think I've even made a dent. Airline staff is supposed to treat you NJA guys like you are their favorite plant and if you choose to treat them as a housepet that's suppose to be OK. I'm guessing that's how you're treated so you want to project it onto us. Fine. I'll remind myself that each and every flight I should take a moment to see if I have a NJA pilot on board and make sure the whole crew makes him/her feel extra special.