brokeflyer
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NetJets Working on CASS Approval?
- Thread starter Voice Of Reason
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fischman
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No. You don't.:beer:
theskyking
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av8trinabarrel
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I know I feel better. Thanks Dr. Phil!
-FlyAuburn-
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This thread is ridiculous. This is very simple.
Crewpass is a new system that was/is being tested at 10 large airports around the country by the TSA. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with jumpseat privileges. Apparently the way it works is that the individual pilot has a special ID that is scanned into a computer and checked against a database to confirm the identity and that the individual has been admitted to crewpass. They then proceed through the line and on their way without being treated like a standard pax.
The entire point is to get NJ pilots through security faster and more efficiently. We all airline at least two days out of every tour, and sometimes more if our plane breaks and we need to get to another one. Due to the last minute one-way nature of most of our travel, it is quite common as a frac pilot to get SSSS. This is especially true if you are not a frequent flyer on a particular airline.
Considering the fact that many NJ pilots are former 121 airline pilots, and some even FFDO qualified ones at that, and the fact that we all go through the same EXTENSIVE background checks as airline pilots including fingerprinting, it is ridiculous that we ever get treated this way at an airport security line.
Yes, we hold a paid ticket. This is because we will never be able to reciprocate. Yes we are passengers, but not "normal" passengers. When a 121 pilot or FA nonrevs they go right through security, but somtimes we get treated like criminals.
Right now we grin and bear it, but hopefully soon enough we will get treated like professional pilots.
For that matter VOR, why shouldn't you or any other frac/135/professional pilot that goes through the same background check and gets admitted to crewpass be afforded the same priveledge?
Crewpass is a new system that was/is being tested at 10 large airports around the country by the TSA. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with jumpseat privileges. Apparently the way it works is that the individual pilot has a special ID that is scanned into a computer and checked against a database to confirm the identity and that the individual has been admitted to crewpass. They then proceed through the line and on their way without being treated like a standard pax.
The entire point is to get NJ pilots through security faster and more efficiently. We all airline at least two days out of every tour, and sometimes more if our plane breaks and we need to get to another one. Due to the last minute one-way nature of most of our travel, it is quite common as a frac pilot to get SSSS. This is especially true if you are not a frequent flyer on a particular airline.
Considering the fact that many NJ pilots are former 121 airline pilots, and some even FFDO qualified ones at that, and the fact that we all go through the same EXTENSIVE background checks as airline pilots including fingerprinting, it is ridiculous that we ever get treated this way at an airport security line.
Yes, we hold a paid ticket. This is because we will never be able to reciprocate. Yes we are passengers, but not "normal" passengers. When a 121 pilot or FA nonrevs they go right through security, but somtimes we get treated like criminals.
Right now we grin and bear it, but hopefully soon enough we will get treated like professional pilots.
For that matter VOR, why shouldn't you or any other frac/135/professional pilot that goes through the same background check and gets admitted to crewpass be afforded the same priveledge?
B19 Flyer
....
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This "my plane is cleaner than your plane" stuff is complete BS. I think we all know what the NJA pilot group did to owner satisfaction when it came between them and a huge payraise. Fastforward to the present and we've got NJA pilots who gripe even more about customer service lacking than the NJA owners did! AND the NJA owners were actually spending their own money for the service! Which is in sharp contrast to a NJA pilot who only goes where the company needs (and pays for) them to go. Furthermore, how did NJA and the NJA owners fix their customer service issues? They got their wallets out and paid for it!! They gave you a huge contract. And I think that is great BTW. How about you do no less for us? You don't like the service at the airline? Get behind us getting a raise instead of this BS.
fischman
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There is a difference in the condition of the NJA planes and airliners. NJA planes look (99% of the time) like they came off the factory line.
Airliners are incapable of providing basic sanitation. I'm not kidding when I say that I would rather sit on a port-a-potty (sp?) than an airline lav. They are a bio-hazard.
I don't even want to guess what is living on the tray tables.
I don't look in the seat back pockets anymore. I have found to much used gum and too many diapers. Ignorance is bliss.
If they were cleaned even once a week, that would be a VAST improvement. These planes aren't just dirty, they are disgusting.
Airliners are incapable of providing basic sanitation. I'm not kidding when I say that I would rather sit on a port-a-potty (sp?) than an airline lav. They are a bio-hazard.
I don't even want to guess what is living on the tray tables.
I don't look in the seat back pockets anymore. I have found to much used gum and too many diapers. Ignorance is bliss.
If they were cleaned even once a week, that would be a VAST improvement. These planes aren't just dirty, they are disgusting.
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gunfyter
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Fisch,
I think we do not blame crew and other workers. We blame management. There is no reason to fall into the trap layed by VOR and 19.... to place a wedge between NJ and Airline crews.
Plus this has nothing to do with CrewPass ... which we will need if for no other reason than to get into our own airplanes ... ref the posts concerning TSA and LASP. Write in about the TSA LASP
NJ management is, IMHO, simply better than other managements ... They allow us to Excel to the limits of our potential. For others this is not always the case.
I think we do not blame crew and other workers. We blame management. There is no reason to fall into the trap layed by VOR and 19.... to place a wedge between NJ and Airline crews.
Plus this has nothing to do with CrewPass ... which we will need if for no other reason than to get into our own airplanes ... ref the posts concerning TSA and LASP. Write in about the TSA LASP
NJ management is, IMHO, simply better than other managements ... They allow us to Excel to the limits of our potential. For others this is not always the case.
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BeeDubya
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Owner satisfaction has never dipped below 85% .....
I could go find some similiar quasi-accurate report for my airline/customers as well. We both know what you did to get the big contract. Not that I blame you, just deal straight with us as well.
av8trinabarrel
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Please explain to me how I can help you get a raise? I would love to help you raise the bar and bring back your furloughs(some of which are my friends).
I conducted my own neutral study yesterday as well. I had my father, who is a major airline guy and a FI virgin, read this thread from start to finish. I said nothing to him other than "what do you think". After he picked himself up off the floor from laughing so hard, he singled out you and voice of desperation. "These guys probably don't have the balls to say anything to your face, but come on here and get the keyboard bravado that looks really desperate" is a direct quote. Now that your blood pressure is through the roof, let me know how we (Net Jets) can be of assistance. Try and keep the name calling to a minimum.
That's funny. I was here before, during, and after the 4+ year battle to secure a worthwhile contract. On many occasions, customers would ask me directly how the negotiations were going and provided direct verbal support in our behalf. Don't you think it's possible owner pressure on management had some effect? Especially since their management fees went up before negotiations even began under the guise of increasing our salaries?
As far as supporting FLOPS for a good raise, I support all of us in that regard. Who was there for us when we went through the pain? IBT sure as hell wasn't. What do you think created 1108, and then NJASAP? We did it soley on our own, along with support from our owners. (B19, don't bother. You weren't even part of it so you have no "expertise" to comment here).
It'll fall directly on the pilots of FLOPS to secure your own cntract. Even if we were still part of 1108, we would have no more influence than we do now. It took a great deal of blood, sweat, and tears. The real question is do you guys have what it takes to do the same? I think the answer to that is yes, as soon as you get more unity in your quest.
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acaTerry
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Not always so. I have been experiencing an increase in linemen who will "doo" the job, but the crewmember (me) is required to take the pot out and place it back in. The claim is that the FBO mgt is instructing line personnel to have crew remove it because line personnel have spilled the goody juice in the plane and the FBO has to pay for the subsequent cleaning or reupholster when necessary.
And since when do we hate eachother (airline vs NetJets)???!!!??? I remember when I was in the airlines we all got along well. The JS pretty much belonged to the captain, and I always gave it (or a back seat if available) to any Executive Jet (pre-NetJets days) pilot that wanted it whether they had a ticket or not. Now this peepee match...geez. Look airline people, fact is that airline travel sucks. This is not an attack on you specifically, but on your airline. But come on, leaving the seatbelt on the whole time for a 3 hr flight? Making no PA except "suzy be seated for departure/arrival", even when sitting for 25 minutes and NOT in line? ROLLING YOUR EYES WHEN SOMEONE ASKS YOU A QUESTION AS IF YOU ARE DONATING BLOOD TO ANSWER IT????!!!!
It seems to me at least, that there are 2 types (generally speaking) of airline pilots out there: 1) those who do not know how to care for their pax, and 2) those who don't care. Go ahead and get p1ssed off at us for pointing this out. And don't try to blame it on pay. We did better on 17/ hr on a 70 hr month than you on 35/hr and 83 hrs a month. It's just a matter of pride in your work. Here's the math:
LTP + IF = PS Thus, PS = C = GMAOPG
Decoded:Low Time Pilot (easy, fast path to airlines) + Immaturity Factor = Poor Service. Thus, Poor Service = Criticism = Get Mad At Other Pilot Groups.
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I don't know. We have frac guys like voice of rediculous posting on the major's board trying to creat a rift between us for something that has absolutely no impact on him. We may as well give "some" 121 folks a "real" reason to be pissed. (For the maroons out there, I am just kidding).
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When it was your contract, career and customers [owners] it was pretty clear to you. You withheld enthusiasm (STFD was the battlecry I believe) to the point that your customers urged your mgt to reward you with an industry leading contract. Well, if you are in fact the Christ-like-important airline customers that some of you believe you are, then if you would please fill in airline mgts on the details of being paid well and how that relates to an improved operation our problems will be well on their way to being over.
Now, of course, I know this really won't do too much. But if you did follow through with this at least half as much as you complain about us, our mgt would notice. It's no less than your customers did for you.
We NEVER treated our customers with less than extreme enthusiasm and professionalism. It was also our "battlecry" to never treat our bread and butter poorly. We recognized they were our source of income. That's what good CEOs recognize too, like RTS. That's why we had such support from our owners. Airline CEOs are nothing but short term caretakers in it for themselves. How many airline CEOs have been around for over 20 years with the same carrier?
Therein lies a big difference between our business model and yours. As a ticket holder, even at $1000 for a one way-one hour flight, it doesn't compare with the guy/gal/firm who pays millions for our service. If we call and voice a complaint or suggestion to your company, how far do you think it goes compared to one of our owners' complaints? They have a direct number for RTS himself. I seem to have lost that number for your CEO.
BTW, even though we purchase about 125,000 full fare same day tickets each year, even if we quadrupled our complaints, it's still a very small percentage of your total volume. We have no choice when booked with you. The paying public doesn't really give a damn. They fly whoever is cheapest and tolerate abhorent pax service the few times they do travel. If they have any recollection at all, they book on a different carrier. If our customers do that, it is a much bigger impact.
There should be no direct complaint to airline personnell from any of us while on duty. Those complaints should be directed via the proper channels, however pointless it seems. At the same time, there should be far greater service provided from your end to every customer. It's not your bread and butter's fault your management treats you like crap. Besides, the amount of money someone makes has nothing to do with how they treat their fellow humans. Why should anyone believe there will be better customer service with better pay?
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BeeDubya
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I'm not sure what you think I was trying to say. I was just pointing out, that even during the 2004/05 negotations, owner satisfaction never dipped below 85%.
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2017264620080520
Owner satisfaction. Is that anything like your on-time performance numbers? (Which I'm sure are stellar) Big deal. You want me to pull out a bunch of JD Power awards? We got em! Big deal as well.
Let's drop the BS. OK? I'm sure you kept up sufficiently with man-servant, fartcatcher duties while being inflexible enough to exact your will upon contract negotiations.
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This forum was filled with posts of NetJets pilots talking about writing up airplanes and delaying flights while fighting for the '05 contract. I was completely supportive, but just be honest about it. End the holier-than-thou crap about never drawing the customer into your battles. It just ain't true.
It would help more than you think. However, I believe you enjoy the complaining too much. And, in fact, aren't as interested in your fellow crewmwmbers seeing increase as your customers were in seeing you do well. I don't know what kind of person you really are, but that ought to bother you at least a little.
BeeDubya
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You're reading A WHOLE LOT into what I wrote... things I NEVER said (nor implied). When having these discussions, I think it's important to discuss facts. If we're going to discuss owner satisfaction during negotiations, we ought to have the right number. If we want to compare it to any other operator's owner/customer satisfaction, we ought to use the correct numbers. Abstracts without foundation are worthless.
The comment was made "I think we all know what the NJA pilot group did to owner satisfaction when it came between them and a huge payraise." My response was to say that, yes, I DO know EXACTLY what we did to owner satisfaction. So, I agree, let's be honest about it.
AvroJockey
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Preach it brotha!
Yesterday I was on a ExpressJet flight home. I decided to forgo the $5 Starbucks because I could get a free cup on the airplane. When asked what I would like to drink the FA said, "You're not going to make me brew coffee just for you...are you?" OMG!...because throwing a coffee packet in a machine and pushing a button is so much work. I got a Diet Coke instead.
I'm so happy and blessed to have a job now where I can take pride in my product. I couldn't have said that 6 months ago.
fischman
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We always treated the owner with the upmost respect. Never bite the hand that feeds you.
All right Mr. numbers, did you as a pilot group not do exactly what it took to get it done? Would you have gone further? Or would your abundant regard for you personal brand and character have caused you to just give up on a contract? The battlecry was: STFD. We all heard it.
BTW, be honest about how much you guys as a group want to match your own customers efforts on your behalf and show some regard for us? What if you have to get a little more uncomfortable for us to get done what we want to get done?
glasspilot
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Here's a tip. Don't drink anything made from the water that comes out of the tanks of a 121 aircraft. The same guys that refill the potable water refill the blue juice and not in that order. Plus, the tanks are NEVER cleaned or sterilized. The "Trolley Dolly" did you a favor.
gutshotdraw
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FLYLOW22
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Then WHY Fisch, why do I feel thoroughly chewed on when I fly 121?
I just don't get it.
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