NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

[QOL_is_great:)]

You don't understand the CASS system

I saw some posts about this on the fracs board ("ATTN: Frac Guys"), but they got deleted due an unrelated topic in same thread causing all responses on that thread to be deleted then topic closed...

Just wondering what ALPA's stance on that would be, since when working they are sent on full fare (or more likely bulk rate, yet still not considered nonrev) tickets to work. Not to mention at the fracs we all collect airline and hotel points/miles for our personal use.
What does ALPA have to do with a government (TSA) program that is used by DOT companies (Part 121 and 135)? If you are asking about ALPA's involvement then should you not ask about other unions?
Yes, NJA does pay for each pilot to travel to/from work and during any movement while working.
Why does it matter if a NJA crewmember or any other fractional crewmember receive points for hotels and airlines? Makes no sense in your argument for ALPA trying to stop NJA from buying into the program.

At my frac we used to have a jumpseat agreement with one of the airlines, but once it became obvious that there wasn't really any such way to reciprocate on the phantom "repo" flights, we were dropped. That was when we had limited basing and the company wouldn't pay from home. NetJets pays to airline pilots from their home airports, so I am wondering what ALPA's stance is.
It's each and every airlines choice to have a company on their jumpseat list and/or to have them off it. Are you worry that a NJA crewmember will be able to j/s and you won't?

Why would they get CASS if the rest of the fracs can't? Especially when they are so vocal about hating airlining and their "paying passenger" status. Why is it a big "secret" that this is being worked on? Does this mean they like the majors guys now?
NJA won't "get" the CASS program since it's not free. The program does cost each company and it's no different for NJA and its crews. Why does it concern you so much that NJA may have access to the program?

Comments from the ALPA front? I'd sure like to jumpseat, but reciprocating just doesn't pan out for ANY of the fracs
Again, what or why does ALPA have to provide a comment or be concerned. It's each company's and their union's choice to have another company on their j/s list. It sounds like you are concerned that someone else (NJA crewmembers) will have something you don't. Here's an idea, start a movement at YOUR frac (name you failed to mention) and get them to pony up the annual fee for the CASS program.
You also need to understand CASS and it's benefits for a company. Each company pays for the use of the system with an annual fee. That's why not every operator is on it and why some 135 operators are using it. It allows quicker/easier travel through security for the crews. It allows or would allow use of one key airport within a major city which is currently inaccessible to a fractional company.
I could care less about the program since I don't j/s to and from work. You are correct that a fully funded ticket awaits me each time I travel. As for security, I go through the line like every other pax and have no issues. Play the game better then most and the TSA agents don't play nasty with me.
You need to get a grip, loosen your tighty whities, chill out and make your company pay for the CASS program so you'll stop whinning.

 

[gunfyter]

I think we should leave things the way they are.

Its kind of comical some days, to see a dozen NJ pilots getting secondary screening at HPN while not another single person does.

 

[PCL_128]

What does ALPA have to do with a government (TSA) program that is used by DOT companies (Part 121 and 135)? If you are asking about ALPA's involvement then should you not ask about other unions? [/COLOR]

ALPA is pretty much single-handily responsible for the creation of the CrewPass program. The computers that you see at the CrewPass check points were even paid for and provided by ALPA. So yes, ALPA does have a little more involvement in the program than every other union. That being said, I doubt they care whether NJA gets into CASS.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

voice of ill-reason

What would the SAFETY committee's stance be on CASS for self-admitted "paying passengers not airline crew" in order to fly through security without being checked the way other "paying passengers" do? Would that enable them to bring onboard items other paying passengers wouldn't (in theory) get through security?
You really need to research the CASS program before you talk about the program.
Question for ya. What would stop a pilot jumpseating on ABC airline who works for XYZ airline from bringing an item not allowed by paying pax (in theory)? You are telling me and the rest here that the CASS system if for airline only crews? What about the pure frieght operators or the 135 crews? Does the CASS only apply to a company that holds a 121 certificate issued by the DOT? I believe it would shock you that NJA has a current 121 certificate.

What is the approval process for CASS? Do ALPA Safety Committees have a way to make their input known to those who do the approving?

Does ALPA have a play with all of the below companies? I know they don't and I wonder why you must ask for ALPA's stand if you are a fractional driver yourself. Note that note every carries listed below is an airline nor a 121 operator.

ABX Air

Air Cargo Carriers

AirNet

AirTran

Air Wisconsin

Alaska

Allegiant

Aloha

America West

American

American Eagle

Ameristar

Arctic Transportation Svcs

Arrow Air

Astar

ASA

ATI

Atlas

Bering Air

Big Sky

Cape Air

Capital Cargo

Chautauqua

Colgan

Comair

Commutair

Compass

Continental

Delta

Empire

Evergreen

Everts Air

Executive

ExpressJet

FedEx

Florida West

Freedom

Frontier

Gemini

GoJet

Great Lakes

Hageland Aviation

Hawaiian

Horizon

IFL Group

Island Air

jetBlue

Kalitta Air

Kalitta Charters LLC

Kalitta Charters

Kalitta Charters II

Key Lime Air

Lynden

Lynx Aviation

Mesa

Mesaba

Midwest

Murray Air

North American

Northern Air Cargo

Northwest

Omni Air

Pace

Penair

Piedmont

Pinnacle

Polar

Primaris

PSA

Republic

Ryan Int'l

Shuttle America

Skyway Enterprises

SkyWest

Southwest

Spirit

Sun Country

Swift Air

Tradewinds

Trans North Aviation

Trans States

United

UPS

US Airways

USA 3000

USA Jet

Virgin America

World

Xtra Airways

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

program good for ALPA's membership

ALPA is pretty much single-handily responsible for the creation of the CrewPass program. The computers that you see at the CrewPass check points were even paid for and provided by ALPA. So yes, ALPA does have a little more involvement in the program than every other union. That being said, I doubt they care whether NJA gets into CASS.

Not sure how much ALPA played or financial support they gave, but I know that after two years of development and testing by ARINC, the TSA, the FAA, and participating aircraft operators, the TSA granted final approval of the CASS system in September 2005. CASS is now available for use by all United States aircraft operators that operate under a TSA approved Aviation Security Program. It is a gov't. program and I am sure ALPA has a very large membership base that it is to their benefit to see that this program went through.
I believe this is a great program and it has many benefits outside of the j/s for those that commute.
I agree with you that ALPA may not care if NJA is in the program. NJA would have to pay their annual fee just like everyone else so who would care since we have paid seats.
Also, it's been said here and I'll say it too; NJA crews are not looking for the j/s.
It's also funny just how many airline crews (front and back) and gate agents don't understand we are not jumpseating. I understand why since we are in uniform. The gate agent or the FA think we need to see the captain prior to boarding. Once they find out that we are fully-funded pax and how we do business then it's a different world. Hell, a lot of guys/gals hold a business elite status with the same perks due to the amount of travel that takes place.

 

[PCL_128]

There are two separate programs here: CASS and CrewPass. CASS went into effect in 2005, but CrewPass is brand new and still in the test stages.

 

[Eot Sugnuf]

Really? You hired them directly out of college?

BTW, the ticket agent can remove the SSSS on your boarding pass. Have you tried to ask? Not saying they will, but they can.

I had a ticket agent line through my SSSS with a sharpie and said I was good to go. That was a fun morning with the TSA.

 

[CA1900]

I had a ticket agent line through my SSSS with a sharpie and said I was good to go. That was a fun morning with the TSA.

They did that with me a few weeks ago in Long Beach. TSA was not amused. :laugh:

 

[snoopy14]

NJA pilots will not be jumpseating on the airlines and 121 pilots will not be riding on NJA, period.

I constantly get hassle by TSA as an NJA guy. Just yesterday I was on US Air
and received quad S on my ticket. Being in uniform I was told by TSA that the couldn't take liquids because of the quad S. He told me to have it removed at the ticket counter. US Air said "NO WAY". So I checked my bags for $15. The problem is TSA is different in every city.

Cass is simply to relieve TSA stress for our crewmembers. We have that right as a 135 operator.


Now I don't hate the airlines, but I hate what they have become. Some of these gate agents and flight attendants have no customer service training at all. I feel like its a government run program. Just like the guy on here telling us to use our own airplanes to get to work, what an idiot, NJA buys close to 125,000 airline tickets a year.

 

[FO 4 Life]

College huh?

I guess I don't get your joke.

Emory is a college in Atlanta. EMERY Worldwide was the airline. I spent many nights in the sort in
DAY and never saw a tail painted Emory.

 

[Hogprint]

Maybe they are working on CASS so they can be in the CrewPass program when or if it starts so they don't have to be hassled by TSA when they airline.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Same mold

Hey Hogprint, looks like we were cut from the same mold or at least share the same foundation. Hueys and Cobras, out in front. Eating cold MREs and sleeping on the ground will make ya appreciate certain things and ways of life.
It's amazing how some will complain about the simplest of things.

 

[JungleJett]

Just like the guy on here telling us to use our own airplanes to get to work, what an idiot, NJA buys close to 125,000 airline tickets a year.

Maybe he should have thanked us instead of calling us elitist...and gay.

Wonder what his airline would think about one of its employees tell us not to fly on CAL?

 

[Hogprint]

Hey Hogprint, looks like we were cut from the same mold or at least share the same foundation. Hueys and Cobras, out in front. Eating cold MREs and sleeping on the ground will make ya appreciate certain things and ways of life.
It's amazing how some will complain about the simplest of things.

Looks like it QOL! Love the avatar!

Snakes:
5/17 Cav - Camp Mobile, ROK
4/3 ACR - Ft Bliss

The most fun you can have with your clothes on!

 

[gutshotdraw]

Looks like it QOL! Love the avatar!

Snakes:
5/17 Cav - Camp Mobile, ROK
4/3 ACR - Ft Bliss

The most fun you can have with your clothes on!

You need to get out more Hoggy

 

[Hogprint]

You need to get out more Hoggy

I know it's sad...

Late show tomorrow, can't even hang till midnight...I must be gett'n old!

 

[RJ Bum]

I love all this talk about the lack of a reciprocal agreements. NJA payed Delta $9500 for me alone last year. I do understand the arguement though being a former airline guy. However NJA as well as other fractionals help your job security more than you may think....

 

[glasspilot]

Ahh, but we giveth less than we taketh.

Last year, from Jan 1 08 to Jan 1 09, I flew 374 flights according to my logbook pro.

Now for some fun with numbers.

374 flights.

= 187 live legs

- 0.01% = 185.13 (for training flights)

185.13 true live legs.

X 4 (avg number of pax) = 740 pax flights.

If those same pax paid just $500 for those same flights on airlines then that would be $370,260 that my FO and I are directly responsible for diverting from the airlines.

I think that number would be much worse as they would probably pay way more than 500 bones per ticket as they would assuredly fly 1st class if available.

If they paid $1,500 per flight then it's $1,110,780.

If they would have paid $5,000 then it's $3,702,600. (see how the decimal changed so you can easily check my math?...) lol

Anyway,

That's why (some of) those airline guys don't like us very much. We're taking food off the table.

 

[Semore Butts]

Wtf??????

This thread isn't done?

I didn't hear anything about mom, apple pie, or pickup trucks?

I know tons of former 121/135 at Netjets. (Half my class in 2002 was Emory) Then came the Midway guys was it?

I have no desire to fly on a jumpseat. If the TSA waves me to the crew line, I go, if not,I don't.

VOR, I'm curious? You said you can't wait to leave fractionals. If you had a decent contract, where are you going thats a better gig? (No flame, just wondering?)

 

[BeeDubya]

Anyway,

That's why (some of) those airline guys don't like us very much. We're taking food off the table.

How does that make us any different than competing 121 carriers?

It could be argued that pilots from more profitable airline X are taking passengers (and food off the table) from less profitable airline Y. The fractionals are just another form of competition.

Now, reciprocity is another issue...