NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

[172driver]

My list of airlines from decent service to horrible: JBLU, SWA, CAL, DL, AA, NW, UA, US Air.

Even if you guys have something against NJ pilots, you really ought to listen, because we are the customers that matter. Maybe not us specifically, but business travelers just like us.

I airline 8-10 times a month, usually less than 500 miles at a time, one-way, and my tickets cost between $700-1200 each. That's somewhere around $100K a year my company is spending on airlines. We are the ones keeping food on your table, not the $150 seat fillers. For those that think we should be paying more, perhaps you don't understand what we are paying or which customers keep your airline alive?

I'm not asking for special treatment. If I were, it would be because I am a good customer, not because I'm a pilot. What I am asking for is the level of service to rise for all pax. You guys don't have to experience the other side of the cockpit door enough to realize how horrifying things have gotten on some carriers.

Every week on the way home, I have a choice whether to use the ticket the company buys me, or to cancel it and apply the value toward a ticket I buy myself. If I choose not to fly on your airline because the service sucks, you just lost one of the few pax whose ticket price would have paid for the entire crew on that leg.

In these economic times, I am doing everything in my power to retain customers at my company. If you were smart you would do the same. Besides that, it's the professional thing to do, whether you work at Walmart or Delta.

It's interesting how the poor service correlates with labor problems; just look at the list. I understand the mentality because I went through an airline BK. All I can say is don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Oh, and again, the CASS thing has nothing to do with jumpseating. It's strictly a means to get us through security faster and with less checked bags. I don't really think ALPA gives a damn, nor do I think they have a leg to stand on if they do. We go through the same background and passport checks that you do.

 

[gunfyter]

You must be a line-check airman if you airline that much... I do about $2000 to $2500 in airlining a month.

Thats maybe $30k a year. Still a lot of money gotta be one of the top Frequent Flyers of all the rest of the pax on any trip I am on.

I have had good service on CAL. I like it.

You want to stop me from getting CASS ... so I have to be gate-raped every time I go to work or go home from work? Honestly, that is the thing that sucks for us. We often get the SSSS because of the last minute tickets, one-way fare etc..

This whole thread is started because of that paranoid VOICEof INSANITY ... who thinks NJ pilots are out to destroy his life and career. After we did everything we could to help him.

 

[172driver]

Just a regular line puke...18-day schedule, short tours. That usually gives me four tours a month with the occasional mid-tour airline thrown in. I also live in one of the most expensive cities for airline tickets.

 

[Flopgut]

My list of airlines from decent service to horrible: JBLU, SWA, CAL, DL, AA, NW, UA, US Air.

Even if you guys have something against NJ pilots, you really ought to listen, because we are the customers that matter. Maybe not us specifically, but business travelers just like us.

I airline 8-10 times a month, usually less than 500 miles at a time, one-way, and my tickets cost between $700-1200 each. That's somewhere around $100K a year my company is spending on airlines. We are the ones keeping food on your table, not the $150 seat fillers. For those that think we should be paying more, perhaps you don't understand what we are paying or which customers keep your airline alive?

I'm not asking for special treatment. If I were, it would be because I am a good customer, not because I'm a pilot. What I am asking for is the level of service to rise for all pax. You guys don't have to experience the other side of the cockpit door enough to realize how horrifying things have gotten on some carriers.

Every week on the way home, I have a choice whether to use the ticket the company buys me, or to cancel it and apply the value toward a ticket I buy myself. If I choose not to fly on your airline because the service sucks, you just lost one of the few pax whose ticket price would have paid for the entire crew on that leg.

In these economic times, I am doing everything in my power to retain customers at my company. If you were smart you would do the same. Besides that, it's the professional thing to do, whether you work at Walmart or Delta.

It's interesting how the poor service correlates with labor problems; just look at the list. I understand the mentality because I went through an airline BK. All I can say is don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Oh, and again, the CASS thing has nothing to do with jumpseating. It's strictly a means to get us through security faster and with less checked bags. I don't really think ALPA gives a damn, nor do I think they have a leg to stand on if they do. We go through the same background and passport checks that you do.

This is a nice, fair minded post. I would have agreed entirely a year ago; however, I think things are changing. NJA guys are not paying uniquely high fares any longer. It's all more the same high fares for more passengers. We've taken a lot of seats out of the market and I think that's going to continue.

I had a previous career where I dealt with premium passengers. The ones I liked the best didn't care how much it costs, they wanted the service. I understand that most of those types of customers are now with NJA. And that's fine. NJA service is demonstratively superior to an airline. Here's the deal: The airline is not the royal barge...And we're not trying to be the royal barge. We have to be secure/safe and predictable. That's it.

I would like to know how NJA pilots, or the guys running NJA would handle a customer who gripes about the service they are getting? Imagine for a second you've got a loud, semi-disgruntled customer who is disgusted with NJA service and insists he's getting screwed. This customer has bought in a certain level that is 10-25% below your most esteemed level of service. You explain that if he paid a premium fare he'd get the premium service which you know is going to make him happy and is the best you can do. But the customer won't do it. He won't cough up 25% more money and you know he has it to spend. He just keeps mocking your product and stinking up the place in front of other customers. What would NJA do?

 

[glasspilot]

Fractionals are a bit different. We don't have different tiers of service. There are bigger and faster planes, but the service is the same.

We all do have passengers that love to gripe about any myriad of things from short runways, to flow control to the crazy things like the guy who wanted a flight hour credit because we didn't have the sugar packets that he liked. Seriously.

But they all get the same level service...top notch. I have heard of owners being shown the door before though. They can quit us and we can quit them too.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

NJA service is demonstratively superior to an airline. Here's the deal: The airline is not the royal barge...And we're not trying to be the royal barge. We have to be secure/safe and predictable. That's it.

ANA's concept of service is a lot different than yours

 

[Caveman]

Seems to me the obvious solution is if a frac crew is going through security to work a flight from that airport they should go through the crew line. If they are going through security as a paying passenger they should go through normal pax screening.

If I buy a ticket to go somewhere I still have to go through passenger security screening. The fact I'm a 121 pilot is irrelevant.

 

[glasspilot]

Here's my sched:

MCO - ORD (airline) 0600 - 0830 (all times EST)

ORD to PWK cab 0900 - 0930

PWK to DEN 1030 - 1300

DEN to blah blah blah.

My company expects to get up to 14 hours of duty out of me and that starts 1 hour prior to my airline flight. Not 3 or 4 hours to accommodate insane lines at security.

I said it before. We're all pilots from the exact same stock. At the Airlines and the Fractionals we have pilots who are prior military and those who come from the commercial sector. We all operate under FARs part 121 or 135. There's not a huge difference between the two. Ones scheduled, ones on demand. Both require the same background check. Both fly for hire. Both employ professional pilots to complete the mission. Both must comply with all manor of regulations. I've done both and I have to tell you I can't tell the difference from FL370.

So to everyone I ask...

If you're an airline pilot: please help us get to where we are going. Please don't be too annoyed when we use the crew lanes. Thanks for the whole can of soda and offers of bottled water prior to push back. It's not necessary, but it's noticed and appreciated.

If you're a fractional pilot: Please stop complaining that the seat is uncomfortable or the service is substandard. It is what it is and we're just getting what the rest of America deals with day in and day out. The pilots aren't proud of it but the customers have voted with their wallets and guess what...thanks to the Internet cheap tickets sell.

My main point is we're all in the same boat. Stop throwing water on the other guys in OUR boat!

 

[Flopgut]

ANA's concept of service is a lot different than yours

At our highest service levels I think we compare favorably. If ANA had to slug it out in a domestic, low fare environment I'm not too sure they would handle it as well as US carriers have.

I do acknowledge you work for a great airline.

 

[Outta Here]

Flopgut are you stuck in predereg. when i say crappy seats i don't do it to offend you or your coworkers. The service is not what was 25 years ago. You still fly the plane the way the rest of the other 121 guys have been doing it for years.
Now how the CUSTOMERS are being treated And I use customer strongly is another story. I am gold on Delta and silver on UsAir. I point that out to show how much I airline around, not to brag. Its the fact the Airlines can't figure out how to make money and they turn that into nickel and dimming the customer and reduce quality of service. But like I said it does not reflect YOU other Pilots or FA's.
If the CASS gets approved and like I said it is not for jumpseating its for other reasons, I will be the FIRST guy to welcome ANY 121 guy aboard to go where we are ferrying!