NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

[FLYLOW22]

All right Mr. numbers, did you as a pilot group not do exactly what it took to get it done? Would you have gone further? Or would your abundant regard for you personal brand and character have caused you to just give up on a contract? The battlecry was: STFD. We all heard it.

BTW, be honest about how much you guys as a group want to match your own customers efforts on your behalf and show some regard for us? What if you have to get a little more uncomfortable for us to get done what we want to get done?

How does this relate to NetJets pilots getting treated like aviation professionals when traveling through TSA checkpoints?

 

[PCL_128]

We always treated the owner with the upmost respect. Never bite the hand that feeds you.

Bullsh--. The threads are still archived here for everyone to read.

 

[AvroJockey]

Here's a tip. Don't drink anything made from the water that comes out of the tanks of a 121 aircraft. The same guys that refill the potable water refill the blue juice and not in that order. Plus, the tanks are NEVER cleaned or sterilized. The "Trolley Dolly" did you a favor.

Thanks for the tip...but I drank that water for over a decade and I'm still here.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Bullsh--. The threads are still archived here for everyone to read.

What is written and what is actually practiced are 2 very different things PCL.

Time to stop believing everything you read in this biz. That's the #1 rule in aviation.

No wonder most pilots are such easy targets. Sheesh.

Take it from 2 that were actually here in 2004/2005. What Fisch said is accurate.

The investment/expense $ amount for travel, the duration of the travel contact, the level of communication and the bond between Owner and pilot as compared to 121 passengers could NOT be any more diametrically opposed.

Sorry if that last part threw you... that's the part that contains no Paris Hilton spectacularism. It's meat.

Let me put it this way. The last time (at work) an Owner I wasn't flying walked up to me an struck up friendly conversation (about something other than "are you a pilot?") because he knew I was one of HIS pilots was this week. We spoke as if we were already familiar with each other. It was pleasant and intelligent. It happens all the time.

When's the last time a passenger conversation with you didn't contain a question about where the gate to XYZ was or what time the 2:40 departs?

In summary: There's no sense of Ownership in the 121 world anymore among passengers. It's a bus ride. Consequently, there is LITTLE TO NO bargaining power potential within the pilot group of a 121 carrier. Hate to say it.

Here at NetJets, we took and take care of our Owners. They could tell what our issues were simply by talking to us.

You would have thought that our Owners were pilots themselves the way they defended us and stood up for us.

And key here is that by defending us (the face of the company) they protected their investments.

 

[JungleJett]

I spent quite a bit of time talking to an owner..during the flight I might add. The guy was in his late 80's and had an intimate knowledge of airplanes and had some great input from a pax standpoint. He could not have been nicer. When we dropped him off in Florida, he came around the side of the airplane to personally thank me for the flight...and then we chatted a bit more.

I like my job again....it has been a while.

 

[fischman]

Then WHY Fisch, why do I feel thoroughly chewed on when I fly 121?

I just don't get it.

Because, Flylow, you have no callous on your a$$. Tell your hot wife to spank that thang a little harder. That way the sack slap on the airlines won't sting so much.imp:

 

[fischman]

Bullsh--. The threads are still archived here for everyone to read.

Oh! I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were sitting around FBOs and watching us interact with the owners?

I will tell you that we treated the owners with the professionalism they expected out of a NetJets pilot. We also (and still do) demand the highest level of mechanical reliability and aesthetics for the aircraft. Do you do the same?

 

[BeeDubya]

All right Mr. numbers, did you as a pilot group not do exactly what it took to get it done? Would you have gone further? Or would your abundant regard for you personal brand and character have caused you to just give up on a contract? The battlecry was: STFD. We all heard it.

BTW, be honest about how much you guys as a group want to match your own customers efforts on your behalf and show some regard for us? What if you have to get a little more uncomfortable for us to get done what we want to get done?

I have never publically discussed negotiating tactics or practices. I will not start now.

As FLYLOW said, what is written and what is practiced may be two different things.

Our dispute was with the company, NOT the passengers, owners or cardholders. Recognizing that the owners/cardholders are paying big bucks for our service, I have always treated them with the best "service excellence" I could. Without them, there is no job.

I don't know what you're asking from the last paragraph.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Because, Flylow, you have no callous on your a$$. Tell your hot wife to spank that thang a little harder. That way the sack slap on the airlines won't sting so much.imp:

Well crap... all I have are these scars on my back.

No callouses.

 

[FLYLOW22]

As FLYLOW said, what is written and what is practiced may be two different things.

Our dispute was with the company, NOT the passengers, owners or cardholders.

And thankfully, the PAST.

 

[BeeDubya]

And thankfully, the PAST.

AMEN, my friend!!

 

[Flopgut]

We also (and still do) demand the highest level of mechanical reliability and aesthetics for the aircraft. Do you do the same?

Get a load of this statement. You know, I hear your QS airplanes down in South America fairly often. (usually with a 2 series number) The anxiety and semi unfamiliarity with ATC and common practice leads me to believe you've got little real concept of the terrain your flying over. I wonder if your owners realize that? I don't have to wonder if your company trains special airports like mine does because I know you don't. Highest level of reliability my a$$.

 

[Flopgut]

I have never publically discussed negotiating tactics or practices. I will not start now.

As FLYLOW said, what is written and what is practiced may be two different things.

Our dispute was with the company, NOT the passengers, owners or cardholders. Recognizing that the owners/cardholders are paying big bucks for our service, I have always treated them with the best "service excellence" I could. Without them, there is no job.

I don't know what you're asking from the last paragraph.

Total BS. You cornholed the customers and you know it. And it would have gotten worse until you got what you wanted.

Can't understand what? Simple english? It's a statement. You are a lesser pilot advocate than the non pilot you fly around. You can't tolerate from others what is in fact the exact behavior you display yourself. You are the lowest form of pilot there is.

 

[BeeDubya]

Total BS. You cornholed the customers and you know it. And it would have gotten worse until you got what you wanted.

Can't understand what? Simple english? It's a statement. You are a lesser pilot advocate than the non pilot you fly around. You can't tolerate from others what is in fact the exact behavior you display yourself. You are the lowest form of pilot there is.

Flopgut,

I do not understand your hostility towards me. I have NEVER posted ANYTHING disparaging about my airline brothers and sisters, nor your attempts to improve your lives or livelihoods. I have never posted anything derrogatory about riding on the airlines, treatment by airline employees, etc.

You did not observe my behavior during 2004/05, so anything you have to say on the subject is speculation.

I have no idea what behaviors you think I exhibit that I cannot tolerate in others. Either you are confusing me with someone else or you are assuming facts not presented.

Fraternally,
BW

 

[FLYLOW22]

Get a load of this statement. You know, I hear your QS airplanes down in South America fairly often. (usually with a 2 series number) The anxiety and semi unfamiliarity with ATC and common practice leads me to believe you've got little real concept of the terrain your flying over. I wonder if your owners realize that? I don't have to wonder if your company trains special airports like mine does because I know you don't. Highest level of reliability my a$$.

Yes, it's true.

We fly to 5,000 airports in the US compared to 500 that ALL of the 121 world serves. That's only the US.

We don't fly the same routes to and from every day like you. We can't possibly memorize all of the frequencies between A and B.

We fly to literally ANY airport in the world with about 5,000 ft of runway. Our pilots fly the North Atlantic, Pacific and to South America. We do it all on any given day.

It's nice that you have the luxury of preparing for your trip a month in advance, flying with another pilot(s) in the same cockpit who is familiar with that same roue that they ALWAYS fly.

Our mission isn't so simple. But then again, that's okay. It's what we do.

BTW, define "special airport". I hope that you don't mean some sissy place like ASE.

Try Bermuda Dunes, CA, Coral Reef Club, FL, Telluride, CO, or just some random ranch airport in TX surrounded by cactus and tumble weeds.

I bet it's been a while since you've had to pick up an IFR clearance over the phone from flight service or cancelled IFR airborne. Hell, how about just flying a real downwind, base and final to a landing (at night to an airport not served by any visual or electronic glidepath info) instead of having ATC hold your hand onto the final approach course of a 10,000 ft dry runway during a CAVU day.

Ever been to Riverside California? Shhhh, Fisch. Don't tell him how fun that place is.

Yesm, I can say without a doubt that NetJets pilots routinely fly to more places, random places than the average 121 guy who does a few Bogata turns. Our apologies if we don't have the deep grumbly voice of a "heavy" pilot on the radio.

What a joke.

So, again... what is the relevance of this info to CASS and NJA?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Total BS. You cornholed the customers and you know it. And it would have gotten worse until you got what you wanted.

Can't understand what? Simple english? It's a statement. You are a lesser pilot advocate than the non pilot you fly around. You can't tolerate from others what is in fact the exact behavior you display yourself. You are the lowest form of pilot there is.

And you are a poo poo nee nee.

There.

Since this is what the thread has degenerated to.

I've actually hot a few more pieces of poo to fling... I haven't stooped this low in a long time.

So THIS is the level one sits to fly such a big, shiny jet. And a TILLER to boot!! Whooooo eeeeee.

Hey Flop. I can get a cup of coffee without saying the secret word, walling off the cockpit and coordinating a football defense line of flight attendants to do it. Isn't that cool?

Yup, all I do is reach right behind me. Hot, steamy coffee. Starbucks if I decide to brew it. Fresh water, free refills and and endless supply of chilled half n half.

Mmmmmmmmm.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Yes, it's true.

We fly to 5,000 airports in the US compared to 500 that ALL of the 121 world serves. That's only the US.

We don't fly the same routes to and from every day like you. We can't possibly memorize all of the frequencies between A and B.

We fly to literally ANY airport in the world with about 5,000 ft of runway. Our pilots fly the North Atlantic, Pacific and to South America. We do it all on any given day.

It's nice that you have the luxury of preparing for your trip a month in advance, flying with another pilot(s) in the same cockpit who is familiar with that same roue that they ALWAYS fly.

Our mission isn't so simple. But then again, that's okay. It's what we do.

BTW, define "special airport". I hope that you don't mean some sissy place like ASE.

Try Bermuda Dunes, CA, Coral Reef Club, FL, Telluride, CO, or just some random ranch airport in TX surrounded by cactus and tumble weeds.

I bet it's been a while since you've had to pick up an IFR clearance over the phone from flight service or cancelled IFR airborne. Hell, how about just flying a real downwind, base and final to a landing (at night to an airport not served by any visual or electronic glidepath info) instead of having ATC hold your hand onto the final approach course of a 10,000 ft dry runway during a CAVU day.

Ever been to Riverside California? Shhhh, Fisch. Don't tell him how fun that place is.

Yesm, I can say without a doubt that NetJets pilots routinely fly to more places, random places than the average 121 guy who does a few Bogata turns. Our apologies if we don't have the deep grumbly voice of a "heavy" pilot on the radio.

What a joke.

So, again... what is the relevance of this info to CASS and NJA?

Very well said. I was going to jump on that one if someone else didn't.

 

[Flopgut]

Yes, it's true.

We fly to 5,000 airports in the US compared to 500 that ALL of the 121 world serves. That's only the US.

We don't fly the same routes to and from every day like you. We can't possibly memorize all of the frequencies between A and B.

We fly to literally ANY airport in the world with about 5,000 ft of runway. Our pilots fly the North Atlantic, Pacific and to South America. We do it all on any given day.

It's nice that you have the luxury of preparing for your trip a month in advance, flying with another pilot(s) in the same cockpit who is familiar with that same roue that they ALWAYS fly.

Our mission isn't so simple. But then again, that's okay. It's what we do.

Puh-lease. Your "mission"? I don't even hear you guys out flying when the wx is bad. You guys might as well be VFR only. I've been on reserve for 7 years. I fly 6 different 737s and with as little two hours notice I've been sent to Quito, Ecuador during a volcanic eruption. Half your guys would pi$$ their pants.

And I'm certainly nothing special. Every pilot I work with does the same thing.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Very well said. I was going to jump on that one if someone else didn't.

Auburn,

Please disregard my next several posts. It's time for me to get down in the mud and play with flop so he can follow along.

I don't want him to feel left out.

(Meanwhile, in the real world I know that we have VERY good people working the CASS issue for all the right reasons. And I THANK THEM!!).

 

[FLYLOW22]

Puh-lease. Your "mission"? I don't even hear you guys out flying when the wx is bad. You guys might as well be VFR only. I've been on reserve for 7 years. I fly 6 different 737s and with as little two hours notice I've been sent to Quito, Ecuador during a volcanic eruption. Half your guys would pi$$ their pants.

And I'm certainly nothing special. Every pilot I work with does the same thing.

And, you think that is safe? Maybe for a $200 ticket, it is. Our clientele doesn't like to fly INTO Pompei. And no, you will not hear us flying into Level 5 weather with you. Feel free to be a real man with all that. We will see you at any large, medium or small field though after shooting any approach down to Cat 1 mins. Our planes just don't do Cat II or IIIabc. As much as I miss a 50 ft. AH...

You act like we all haven't done what you do in our past.


I fly 1 type of Cessna with no prior notice of a trip change. The day could change in an instant. That doesn't matter because we practice Professional Pace and go when we go. We don't take all day but we take adequate time to insure we are as safe as possible.

I'm sad for you that you feel that it is normal to need to memorize 6 different limitations and versions of a jet and then fly to strange places without the proper time to read up on it.

We are fortunate to have Int'l dispatchers prepare a trip specific package of info that contains weather, politics and current events. Heck, we even have translators and security meet us if necessary to handle all the bizznezz.

 

[Pervis]

Flylow, don't bother. Just another slug competing for ahole of the month. Clearly a very bitter individual who places blame for his own inadequacies upon others without the risk of doing so in person. You know the type.

 

[Flopgut]

Yes, it's true.

We fly to 5,000 airports in the US compared to 500 that ALL of the 121 world serves. That's only the US.

We don't fly the same routes to and from every day like you. We can't possibly memorize all of the frequencies between A and B.

We fly to literally ANY airport in the world with about 5,000 ft of runway. Our pilots fly the North Atlantic, Pacific and to South America. We do it all on any given day.

It's nice that you have the luxury of preparing for your trip a month in advance, flying with another pilot(s) in the same cockpit who is familiar with that same roue that they ALWAYS fly.

Our mission isn't so simple. But then again, that's okay. It's what we do.

BTW, define "special airport". I hope that you don't mean some sissy place like ASE.

Try Bermuda Dunes, CA, Coral Reef Club, FL, Telluride, CO, or just some random ranch airport in TX surrounded by cactus and tumble weeds.

I bet it's been a while since you've had to pick up an IFR clearance over the phone from flight service or cancelled IFR airborne. Hell, how about just flying a real downwind, base and final to a landing (at night to an airport not served by any visual or electronic glidepath info) instead of having ATC hold your hand onto the final approach course of a 10,000 ft dry runway during a CAVU day.

Ever been to Riverside California? Shhhh, Fisch. Don't tell him how fun that place is.

Yesm, I can say without a doubt that NetJets pilots routinely fly to more places, random places than the average 121 guy who does a few Bogata turns. Our apologies if we don't have the deep grumbly voice of a "heavy" pilot on the radio.

What a joke.

So, again... what is the relevance of this info to CASS and NJA?

Wow. You can't even spell Bogota. Makes me wonder. Coral Reef Club? You're actually going to mention the Coral Reef Club...in Florida...in the same sentence as Bogota? Now that's a joke.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Wow. You can't even spell Bogota. Makes me wonder. Coral Reef Club? You're actually going to mention the Coral Reef Club...in Florida...in the same sentence as Bogota? Now that's a joke.

I, ummmm, missed the punchline... unless it's your argument position here Flop.

Why not tell us a cool story of you single handedly flying the airplane into a squall while reading the paper, hand flying the ILS and smoking a cigarette while on approach to TikiTiki. The one where the Captain was incapacitated.

Do it for old times. Come on.

Bet you'd do a go around at Coral Reef... Not enough for you AND your ego on the runway.

 

[PCL_128]

Don't bother with them, Flopgut. Let them have fun with their giant airline-hating circle-jerk. I never had a bad word to say of frac pilots before this thread, but they've certainly shown their true colors. I've never seen so much ego and condescension before in my life, and that's saying a lot for pilots.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Don't bother with them, Flopgut. Let them have fun with their giant airline-hating circle-jerk. I never had a bad word to say of frac pilots before this thread, but they've certainly shown their true colors. I've never seen so much ego and condescension before in my life, and that's saying a lot for pilots.

Look at US Airways merger then. They USED to be ALPA by the way. Noticed your avatar. You must have it all figured out as an AirTran F/O a few years in the biz. Go through the meat grinder a few times at a few different carriers and let us know how you feel then. Been there, done that. Bought a NetJets T-Shirt. Done.

Buh bye PCL. Back to airline land laddy. We'll be the guys paying our way to help support your airline in the back.

And no... there is absolutely no condescension here. No jealously. No desire to fly the "big iron" for small pay.

I would love it if we could just wear street clothes when airlining... we would just "disappear" overnight. Imagine it... it would be awesome.

 

[imacdog]

When PCL starts talking about other pilots' egos, that's when you need to start checking for signs of the apocalypse.

 

[Flopgut]

And, you think that is safe? Maybe for a $200 ticket, it is. Our clientele doesn't like to fly INTO Pompei. And no, you will not hear us flying into Level 5 weather with you. Feel free to be a real man with all that. We will see you at any large, medium or small field though after shooting any approach down to Cat 1 mins. Our planes just don't do Cat II or IIIabc. As much as I miss a 50 ft. AH...

You act like we all haven't done what you do in our past.


I fly 1 type of Cessna with no prior notice of a trip change. The day could change in an instant. That doesn't matter because we practice Professional Pace and go when we go. We don't take all day but we take adequate time to insure we are as safe as possible.

I'm sad for you that you feel that it is normal to need to memorize 6 different limitations and versions of a jet and then fly to strange places without the proper time to read up on it.

We are fortunate to have Int'l dispatchers prepare a trip specific package of info that contains weather, politics and current events. Heck, we even have translators and security meet us if necessary to handle all the bizznezz.

You are adorable!! You copped to being able to fly only one type, OF CESSNA (!?), to some semi exotic places. WOW!! God, I admire you! You know, the reason you have a translator and all that other destination mgt types show up is because you don't know pig sh!t from apple butter and you'd probably become lost if the company didn't grease the wheels.

 

[Pervis]

I would love it if we could just wear street clothes when airlining... we would just "disappear" overnight. Imagine it... it would be awesome.

We can, and I do, when going home at the end of each tour.

 

[FLYLOW22]

You are adorable!! You copped to being able to fly only one type, OF CESSNA (!?), to some semi exotic places. WOW!! God, I admire you! You know, the reason you have a translator and all that other destination mgt types show up is because you don't know pig sh!t from apple butter and you'd probably become lost if the company didn't grease the wheels.

Yeah, a Cessna. It was a cute little thing that cruised at altitudes up to 51,000 ft at .92M. It would eat your classic for lunch. I enjoyed it very much.

You ought to see the Cessna Columbus or the SST they have planned. The Cessna SST will get to Bogota before you even reach cruise in the .73M 737 Classic.

Adorable? Yup! My exact words were "cute" when I learned my next Cessna's hydraulic system. Then I looked at the pay, benes and days off and I said "BAD ASS"!!

Translators. YES! They are great. They take care of customs and other handling arrangements in the NATIVE tongue. There's no need to try and make things harder by dealing with language barriers. Too many gotchas as it is than to worry about der, die, das.

Whatever floats your boat Flop.

 

[Flopgut]

Bet you'd do a go around at Coral Reef... Not enough for you AND your ego on the runway.

Are you serious??!! The Coral Reef Club? That exclusive, tiny airport with the golf course on the west side? The one south of Homestead on the coast? Been there. What is the big deal with that?