NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

[imacdog]

It was a factual statement. Some airlines consider the exit row an "upgrade" and charge accordingly. We as normal passengers are not entitled to free upgrades just like any other passenger, and I am not going to pay $25 of my own money to sit in an exit row. I am also going to avoid sitting in the dual exit rows that do not recline. Try not to have heartburn over it. Besides, there's nothing your rep can do about my company pursuing CASS. That's a jumpseat agreement thing; I'm sure you understand the difference. If your FAs need able-bodied assitance then I'm sure they can ask us for it, just like what happened with me yesterday.

 

[Flopgut]

Flop,

I too agree in part with what you are saying. A monster has been created by dereg...but that does not excuse the lack of simple customer service at most airlines. I was going to keep my opinions of CAL to myself but since you attacked NJA and Fracs in general, I will not.

CAL is near the top of my list for carriers I hate to fly on. Your opinion of your "solid" inflight service is not supported by my experience on COUNTLESS CAL flights. I know a TON of CAL pilots and more than a few of called to ask for my help to come over to the frac side of the business..why? The moral at CAL is tanking and it shows in the service.

But you are right...you get what you pay for and that goes for managment as well. They have clearly gotten what they paid for in some employees.

Keep doing what you are doing and I will continue to feel better about where I am now.

Well I'm going to vehemently defend my FA coworkers who are quite obviously some of the very best in the business. Safety is the ultimate customer service and we're doing that pretty darn well. Again, if it weren't for passengers with your elietest type attitude (who in this case grabbed their luggage during an evac) there would have been fewer injuries.

 

[gunfyter]

Here's a perfect example. You need to be upgraded?! You need something free?! You know what? Fine. You f-ing louses want to be like that? You don't need to be using Crewpass or CASS. Calling my rep now.

You have a rep at ARINC? Isn't that who operates CASS?

 

[fischman]

VOR is right

We at NetJets are trying to get into CASS. There are some details to be published, but until they are finalized, they will remain double-top secret. :nuts:


Seriously, VOR, you are making a mountain out of an ant hill. We are not expecting jumpseat privileges as they would be impossible to reciprocate due to 1) our inability to create a schedule, and 2) Mr. Santulli would NEVER sign off on it because we have a responsibility to the aircraft owners (our pax) to keep the airplanes pristine. How would you like it if the company that managed your $10 million asset let strangers use it whenever? I know I wouldn't.


This is no big deal.

 

[Flopgut]

It was a factual statement. Some airlines consider the exit row an "upgrade" and charge accordingly. We as normal passengers are not entitled to free upgrades just like any other passenger, and I am not going to pay $25 of my own money to sit in an exit row. I am also going to avoid sitting in the dual exit rows that do not recline. Try not to have heartburn over it. Besides, there's nothing your rep can do about my company pursuing CASS. That's a jumpseat agreement thing; I'm sure you understand the difference. If your FAs need able-bodied assitance then I'm sure they can ask us for it, just like what happened with me yesterday.

So you're not going to cough up $25 bucks for extra service/comfort, but you're going to cry and complain if you're not made to feel special? Fine. Take your coach seat and STFU.

My rep will call ALPA National. ALPA National can explain to oversight that what you guys are doing is dilluting a legitimate program for personal/corporate gain. AND, despite the fact you've been around for years and are in the transportation business, you've not lifted a finger to try to be a helpful hand.

 

[gunfyter]

Flopgut,

You might want to search the ALPA website for Netjets and enforcement of Duty and Rest regulations.

March 14, 1991

Part of the reason Reserve Rest got squared away....

and

I know that about 90% of Hilton Honors Diamond members are Netjets pilots. We stay in hotels more than we airline but most NJ pilots have Elite status in multiple FF programs ... so according to the airlines ... we are Elite. I do most of my airlines on SWA, Continental, and American.

We are paying plenty of money on Full Fare one-way tickets purchased day before and day of travel.... thus leading to the SSSS TSA strip search.

 

[glasspilot]

Hey Flop, you need to get laid, or kick the dog or something.

No one needs to "feel special". And it's a bit of a personal choice weather or not to spend ones own money for extra service / comfort as you say. I think it's pretty cheap to charge for it but I defend any airlines right to charge whatever they think the market will bear for any service or goods.

Know what would make me happy? Get off the God D@mn PA! It's only your ego forcing us to listen to the temp / dew point and which way the wind is blowing at 5 kts. And if you're flying something with an entertainment system that goes double. You must realize that when you key the mike everyone who was reading, or having a conversation, or watching tv has to stop and listen to your incoherent dribble about things that don't matter. If you must say something then how about just saying, "welcome aboard, your name, and what time we're going to get to the gate". That's it. Nothing more. Then take your own advise and STFU.

 

[Flopgut]

I am going to tell my mom....

Whaaaaaa

Call ALPA...maybe they can start earning the money you pay them.

What a tool...

And the FLOPGUT thing...I am sure that is not far from the truth having seen the likes of you in the terminal.

You are exactly where you belong...dudes like you are why I left the airlines.

I bet you are a '83 hire too...

Sure, ALPA may not be able to do anything. But I'm making the call anyway.

I'm so not hired in '83. That's fine though, shoot first, ask questions later.

Have fun over there. I know it's a good deal. All I'm saying is if you aren't going to help make our job easier/safer just don't try to make it harder.

 

[CA1900]

Despite the inflammatory headline, this has nothing to do with the majors or jumpseating. And it certainly has nothing to do with ALPA, of which we are not members nor do we have any interest in joining.

This is between NetJets -- a certificated air carrier -- and TSA. It doesn't involve you in any way.

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Flop, you need to get laid, or kick the dog or something.

No one needs to "feel special". And it's a bit of a personal choice weather or not to spend ones own money for extra service / comfort as you say. I think it's pretty cheap to charge for it but I defend any airlines right to charge whatever they think the market will bear for any service or goods.

Know what would make me happy? Get off the God D@mn PA! It's only your ego forcing us to listen to the temp / dew point and which way the wind is blowing at 5 kts. And if you're flying something with an entertainment system that goes double. You must realize that when you key the mike everyone who was reading, or having a conversation, or watching tv has to stop and listen to your incoherent dribble about things that don't matter. If you must say something then how about just saying, "welcome aboard, your name, and what time we're going to get to the gate". That's it. Nothing more. Then take your own advise and STFU.

I say very little on the PA. But that's not going to stop, some guys like to jabber on there.

I am stunned at the level of a$$holeness I see here on the airfares and paying for service. With all that's been said, this is still no less true: you guys gripe and complain about your seats and service when you're in coach. Buy a FC seat toolbags!! It's no different than the idiots I have to fly around that think they own the plane. If I get a real fussy customer I remind them that they can go and charter a plane for themselves. So I'll tell you the same thing. Don't gripe about service you didn't pay for. Period. We sell that, get your wallet out!

Years ago Bethune was in the terminal at EWR. There was a passenger that would not stop griping him out about a late flight. Finally Gordon asked him what he paid for the ticket. (I think it was around $400 dollars) Gordon got $400 out of his wallet and handed it to him and took his ticket, then told him to go find another airline.

Look, we (CAL) are not the be all, end all in customer service. But you compare 4 grand for a transcon on CAL vs. 40 grand on you guys, we're a pretty good deal. (that's about first class fare) I'd like to do the same thing Gordon did to all you guys. Give you your money back, take your ticket, and see how well you could run that outfit.

 

[172driver]

My list of airlines from decent service to horrible: JBLU, SWA, CAL, DL, AA, NW, UA, US Air.

Even if you guys have something against NJ pilots, you really ought to listen, because we are the customers that matter. Maybe not us specifically, but business travelers just like us.

I airline 8-10 times a month, usually less than 500 miles at a time, one-way, and my tickets cost between $700-1200 each. That's somewhere around $100K a year my company is spending on airlines. We are the ones keeping food on your table, not the $150 seat fillers. For those that think we should be paying more, perhaps you don't understand what we are paying or which customers keep your airline alive?

I'm not asking for special treatment. If I were, it would be because I am a good customer, not because I'm a pilot. What I am asking for is the level of service to rise for all pax. You guys don't have to experience the other side of the cockpit door enough to realize how horrifying things have gotten on some carriers.

Every week on the way home, I have a choice whether to use the ticket the company buys me, or to cancel it and apply the value toward a ticket I buy myself. If I choose not to fly on your airline because the service sucks, you just lost one of the few pax whose ticket price would have paid for the entire crew on that leg.

In these economic times, I am doing everything in my power to retain customers at my company. If you were smart you would do the same. Besides that, it's the professional thing to do, whether you work at Walmart or Delta.

It's interesting how the poor service correlates with labor problems; just look at the list. I understand the mentality because I went through an airline BK. All I can say is don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Oh, and again, the CASS thing has nothing to do with jumpseating. It's strictly a means to get us through security faster and with less checked bags. I don't really think ALPA gives a damn, nor do I think they have a leg to stand on if they do. We go through the same background and passport checks that you do.

 

[gunfyter]

You must be a line-check airman if you airline that much... I do about $2000 to $2500 in airlining a month.

Thats maybe $30k a year. Still a lot of money gotta be one of the top Frequent Flyers of all the rest of the pax on any trip I am on.

I have had good service on CAL. I like it.

You want to stop me from getting CASS ... so I have to be gate-raped every time I go to work or go home from work? Honestly, that is the thing that sucks for us. We often get the SSSS because of the last minute tickets, one-way fare etc..

This whole thread is started because of that paranoid VOICEof INSANITY ... who thinks NJ pilots are out to destroy his life and career. After we did everything we could to help him.

 

[172driver]

Just a regular line puke...18-day schedule, short tours. That usually gives me four tours a month with the occasional mid-tour airline thrown in. I also live in one of the most expensive cities for airline tickets.

 

[Flopgut]

My list of airlines from decent service to horrible: JBLU, SWA, CAL, DL, AA, NW, UA, US Air.

Even if you guys have something against NJ pilots, you really ought to listen, because we are the customers that matter. Maybe not us specifically, but business travelers just like us.

I airline 8-10 times a month, usually less than 500 miles at a time, one-way, and my tickets cost between $700-1200 each. That's somewhere around $100K a year my company is spending on airlines. We are the ones keeping food on your table, not the $150 seat fillers. For those that think we should be paying more, perhaps you don't understand what we are paying or which customers keep your airline alive?

I'm not asking for special treatment. If I were, it would be because I am a good customer, not because I'm a pilot. What I am asking for is the level of service to rise for all pax. You guys don't have to experience the other side of the cockpit door enough to realize how horrifying things have gotten on some carriers.

Every week on the way home, I have a choice whether to use the ticket the company buys me, or to cancel it and apply the value toward a ticket I buy myself. If I choose not to fly on your airline because the service sucks, you just lost one of the few pax whose ticket price would have paid for the entire crew on that leg.

In these economic times, I am doing everything in my power to retain customers at my company. If you were smart you would do the same. Besides that, it's the professional thing to do, whether you work at Walmart or Delta.

It's interesting how the poor service correlates with labor problems; just look at the list. I understand the mentality because I went through an airline BK. All I can say is don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Oh, and again, the CASS thing has nothing to do with jumpseating. It's strictly a means to get us through security faster and with less checked bags. I don't really think ALPA gives a damn, nor do I think they have a leg to stand on if they do. We go through the same background and passport checks that you do.

This is a nice, fair minded post. I would have agreed entirely a year ago; however, I think things are changing. NJA guys are not paying uniquely high fares any longer. It's all more the same high fares for more passengers. We've taken a lot of seats out of the market and I think that's going to continue.

I had a previous career where I dealt with premium passengers. The ones I liked the best didn't care how much it costs, they wanted the service. I understand that most of those types of customers are now with NJA. And that's fine. NJA service is demonstratively superior to an airline. Here's the deal: The airline is not the royal barge...And we're not trying to be the royal barge. We have to be secure/safe and predictable. That's it.

I would like to know how NJA pilots, or the guys running NJA would handle a customer who gripes about the service they are getting? Imagine for a second you've got a loud, semi-disgruntled customer who is disgusted with NJA service and insists he's getting screwed. This customer has bought in a certain level that is 10-25% below your most esteemed level of service. You explain that if he paid a premium fare he'd get the premium service which you know is going to make him happy and is the best you can do. But the customer won't do it. He won't cough up 25% more money and you know he has it to spend. He just keeps mocking your product and stinking up the place in front of other customers. What would NJA do?

 

[glasspilot]

Fractionals are a bit different. We don't have different tiers of service. There are bigger and faster planes, but the service is the same.

We all do have passengers that love to gripe about any myriad of things from short runways, to flow control to the crazy things like the guy who wanted a flight hour credit because we didn't have the sugar packets that he liked. Seriously.

But they all get the same level service...top notch. I have heard of owners being shown the door before though. They can quit us and we can quit them too.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

NJA service is demonstratively superior to an airline. Here's the deal: The airline is not the royal barge...And we're not trying to be the royal barge. We have to be secure/safe and predictable. That's it.

ANA's concept of service is a lot different than yours

 

[Caveman]

Seems to me the obvious solution is if a frac crew is going through security to work a flight from that airport they should go through the crew line. If they are going through security as a paying passenger they should go through normal pax screening.

If I buy a ticket to go somewhere I still have to go through passenger security screening. The fact I'm a 121 pilot is irrelevant.

 

[glasspilot]

Here's my sched:

MCO - ORD (airline) 0600 - 0830 (all times EST)

ORD to PWK cab 0900 - 0930

PWK to DEN 1030 - 1300

DEN to blah blah blah.

My company expects to get up to 14 hours of duty out of me and that starts 1 hour prior to my airline flight. Not 3 or 4 hours to accommodate insane lines at security.

I said it before. We're all pilots from the exact same stock. At the Airlines and the Fractionals we have pilots who are prior military and those who come from the commercial sector. We all operate under FARs part 121 or 135. There's not a huge difference between the two. Ones scheduled, ones on demand. Both require the same background check. Both fly for hire. Both employ professional pilots to complete the mission. Both must comply with all manor of regulations. I've done both and I have to tell you I can't tell the difference from FL370.

So to everyone I ask...

If you're an airline pilot: please help us get to where we are going. Please don't be too annoyed when we use the crew lanes. Thanks for the whole can of soda and offers of bottled water prior to push back. It's not necessary, but it's noticed and appreciated.

If you're a fractional pilot: Please stop complaining that the seat is uncomfortable or the service is substandard. It is what it is and we're just getting what the rest of America deals with day in and day out. The pilots aren't proud of it but the customers have voted with their wallets and guess what...thanks to the Internet cheap tickets sell.

My main point is we're all in the same boat. Stop throwing water on the other guys in OUR boat!

 

[Flopgut]

ANA's concept of service is a lot different than yours

At our highest service levels I think we compare favorably. If ANA had to slug it out in a domestic, low fare environment I'm not too sure they would handle it as well as US carriers have.

I do acknowledge you work for a great airline.

 

[Outta Here]

Flopgut are you stuck in predereg. when i say crappy seats i don't do it to offend you or your coworkers. The service is not what was 25 years ago. You still fly the plane the way the rest of the other 121 guys have been doing it for years.
Now how the CUSTOMERS are being treated And I use customer strongly is another story. I am gold on Delta and silver on UsAir. I point that out to show how much I airline around, not to brag. Its the fact the Airlines can't figure out how to make money and they turn that into nickel and dimming the customer and reduce quality of service. But like I said it does not reflect YOU other Pilots or FA's.
If the CASS gets approved and like I said it is not for jumpseating its for other reasons, I will be the FIRST guy to welcome ANY 121 guy aboard to go where we are ferrying!