NetJets To Picket

[G4dude]

Do you think the NJA FO's, furloughed NJA FO's, and furloughed GLC people are talking about there boats and investments?

I'll bet if they aligned your duty assignment with your hire date, alot of GLC people would be talking about other things?

Typical F.U., I've got mine answer.

Read that Confessions of a Union Buster book yet? Didn't think so.

I actually thought it would be more fair it they HAD aligned us with our hire date. I would have ended up in a Hawker or something, but it would have been more fair, in my opinion.

 

[G4dude]

I understand. Read what CA1900 wrote. That's it exactly. All those things you talk about while flying, we talk about the same. AND we talk about the current state of things between the company and labor.

You joined our union during the transition to a mostly hostile management team. You haven't been working under our contract, and as CA1900 said, maybe are used to changes without worry. We were actually pretty darn happy and content after the '05 contract. The '07 IBB made it even better. Sure, a few complained. But come one, you know as well as I do that in any group of people, if you tell them you'll pay them $1 million a year to work Wednesdays only, one or two will always say EVERY WEDNESDAY?! So yes, there has been so ongoing griping, but mostly I've seen a pretty happy and content pilot group.
UNTIL the new team started messing with our contract. I bring up the 401k thing a lot, but mainly because it's one of the most glaring examples. There are many more.

I used the 'building a house with a contractor who violated the contract' example previously to try to make my point. I don't think it really sunk in with you. How about this: Just making up some numbers here, but let's say under our contract, and at your years of service, you should get $4000 in each paycheck (after withholding taxes, 401k contribution, elective coverages, etc...). You get this amount EVERY paycheck and it's what is specified in section 27 of our CBA. Now suppose on your next paycheck, it shows up for only $3900. What are you going to do? Let it slide? After all, it's ONLY $100 out of $4000. At the end of the month you'll have received $7800 in take-home pay, and only been shorted $200. Will you speak up about it? What if the company says "Sorry, not interested in hearing your whining. We're hurting and this will help us.". So, will you pursue it? What if they short you $500 in each paycheck? How about only $50? How much would they need to short you on your paycheck before you might be willing to picket (with others who have been shorted) to express your displeasure about it?

Well, this 401k change could potentially cost each of us THOUSANDS of dollars. Admittedly, I won't know for certain until AFTER the change has been completed, but given the lack of details forthcoming from the company, combined with the CBA violation, combined with others who know about this stuff who are VERY upset about it, does not give me confidence that this move will be good for our retirement accounts.

Here's another way to look at it. If this was going to be such a good thing for all of us, what would have been so hard about the company complying with the contract in regards to this change? You haven't been part of this union for very long, but I've been in it for 15 years now, and I've never seen them turn down something from the company that would be good for the entire group. So if this change is so great, as the company contends, why not work within the confines of the CBA to make it happen? Why are they keeping so many of the details about this switch so secret, even now? We're not talking about the company's business plan here, we're talking about OUR money. Don't you think we're ENTITLED to the details BEFORE the change happens? I've heard a lot about the non-union types about how difficult the union is making things, "Luthi's rantings", malcontent pilots, why don't we just let things happen, etc... but I haven't seen much from these same people looking with a critical eye at the company's actions. If this change is so wonderful, our CBA would most assuredly NOT have been a roadblock to getting it implemented. In fact, it could have been done cooperatively (as required), and garnered a tremendous amount of good will amongst the pilots.

So have you asked yourself why the company has chosen the more difficult route?

Good post! Other than inefficiencies in CMH, we are happy with the company. We don't get y'all and your unhappiness at all. Maybe we are missing something. We are mainly hoping the union doesn't screw up a good thing. Just a different way of observing the same phenomena.

 

[nordo_2]

It just seems to me y'all are constantly looking for something to be angry about. My buds in the G have lots of 401K money too, and they are calm and serene about the change. The two groups think very differently, our attitudes in the cockpit and in life are happier and more contented. We talk about planes and boats and investments and politics and women, while you seem to talk about the contract and how stupid and dishonest management is. I like our way of thinking a lot better, Realityman, no offense intended. The NJI guys in the G4 are not happy with the attitudes of the majority of the A guys who have come over, it's not as enjoyable a job now. I personally wonder if union types can ever be happy.

Lots of contentment and satisfaction over here on the bottom. The furloughed folks too.

 

[G4dude]

Lots of contentment and satisfaction over here on the bottom. The furloughed folks too.

I bet. I feel the FOs will have to go elsewhere, hopefully to a better job. Maybe Southwest.

 

[OPECJet]

Lots of contentment and satisfaction over here on the bottom. The furloughed folks too.

You think the furloughed NJA folks are content and satisfied?

 

[nordo_2]

You think the furloughed NJA folks are content and satisfied?

No. sarcasm at its worst. No worries I be one soon myself.

 

[fischman]

Good post! Other than inefficiencies in CMH, we are happy with the company. We don't get y'all and your unhappiness at all. Maybe we are missing something. We are mainly hoping the union doesn't screw up a good thing. Just a different way of observing the same phenomena.

We are mainly hoping that management doesn't screw up a good thing, although it seems they already are...:bawling:

 

[OPECJet]

No. sarcasm at its worst. No worries I be one soon myself.

I kinda figured. Hope it doesn't happen!

 

[gutshotdraw]

As an aside, I do know one furloughed pilot making BANK in Asia and won't be back. Another landed a good job based in his home city. I know it's tough but there are jobs out there and unfortunately, none of the 495 will be recalled this decade. Hate the game, not the player.

 

[BentOver]

As an aside, I do know one furloughed pilot making BANK in Asia and won't be back. Another landed a good job based in his home city. I know it's tough but there are jobs out there and unfortunately, none of the 495 will be recalled this decade. Hate the game, not the player.

We hate the idiots who think nothing is wrong at Netjets

 

[realityman]

Good post! Other than inefficiencies in CMH, we are happy with the company. We don't get y'all and your unhappiness at all. Maybe we are missing something. We are mainly hoping the union doesn't screw up a good thing. Just a different way of observing the same phenomena.

Got it. I respect your opinion of the union, even if it's not favorable.
However, I'd still be curious to know your answers to the questions I posted.

Also curious to know how the union will mess up a good thing? What, specifically, has the union done to reduce the quality of this job? For the record, we on the "A" side were hoping that when the integration was complete that the company would adopt more of NJI's practices than sticking with the "A" side's practices. Sadly, it didn't work out that way. But I'd love to hear how you think that was the union's doing (if that's what you believe).

Who changed the airlining policy? Who switched the 401k without any details and completely in violation of the CBA? Who brought the IRS in so that we're now taxed beyond 2 crew meals (I realize that the "I" side didn't do per diem, but as we are now all under the CBA, you get per diem and the new crew food/per diem tax rules affect you too)? Who wants to alter our scope clause so they can allow more outsiders to do our flying? Who decided that the Gulfstream program was essentially over and we are going with Globals (which, by the way, if it hadn't been for the integration would have spelled the end of your employment here.)? Who has decided to start bringing pilots to CMH for a carpet dance for using our supposedly 'no fault' fatigue call policy?

There's just too much more to post here. But given all of that, what is causing you to question if the UNION is going to mess things up? Who is responsible for all of that? Who is trying to prevent a great deal of that? Integration aside (I suspect that would have happened with this new management team even without the union asking for it), what has the union done that makes you wonder if the union is going to mess up a perfectly good job? Okay, you don't like the tone and content of Luthi's messages. Fair enough. But what, exactly, is he advocating that would make this job worse?

The only people I see trying to make the job less than what it once was are not working for the union.

 

[CA1900]

We don't get y'all and your unhappiness at all. Maybe we are missing something. We are mainly hoping the union doesn't screw up a good thing.

The union is the only thing preventing this management team from turning this into a $27,000-a-year job again, with regional QOL.

Just a different way of observing the same phenomena.

You guys keep observing. We'll keep doing the legwork, as always.

 

[nordo_2]

I bet. I feel the FOs will have to go elsewhere, hopefully to a better job. Maybe Southwest.

SICs gotta bail. I love it.

 

[rajflyboy]

The definition of G4

A monkey >> F___king a Football

 

[fischman]

Got it. I respect your opinion of the union, even if it's not favorable.
However, I'd still be curious to know your answers to the questions I posted.

Also curious to know how the union will mess up a good thing? What, specifically, has the union done to reduce the quality of this job? For the record, we on the "A" side were hoping that when the integration was complete that the company would adopt more of NJI's practices than sticking with the "A" side's practices. Sadly, it didn't work out that way. But I'd love to hear how you think that was the union's doing (if that's what you believe).

Who changed the airlining policy? Who switched the 401k without any details and completely in violation of the CBA? Who brought the IRS in so that we're now taxed beyond 2 crew meals (I realize that the "I" side didn't do per diem, but as we are now all under the CBA, you get per diem and the new crew food/per diem tax rules affect you too)? Who wants to alter our scope clause so they can allow more outsiders to do our flying? Who decided that the Gulfstream program was essentially over and we are going with Globals (which, by the way, if it hadn't been for the integration would have spelled the end of your employment here.)? Who has decided to start bringing pilots to CMH for a carpet dance for using our supposedly 'no fault' fatigue call policy?

There's just too much more to post here. But given all of that, what is causing you to question if the UNION is going to mess things up? Who is responsible for all of that? Who is trying to prevent a great deal of that? Integration aside (I suspect that would have happened with this new management team even without the union asking for it), what has the union done that makes you wonder if the union is going to mess up a perfectly good job? Okay, you don't like the tone and content of Luthi's messages. Fair enough. But what, exactly, is he advocating that would make this job worse?

The only people I see trying to make the job less than what it once was are not working for the union.

Again, you earn your FI.com handle. Good post, full of fact and reality.

 

[G4dude]

SICs gotta bail. I love it.

I meant hopefully they will get a job that's even better than the one at NJA. I am hoping a good thing will come out of the furloughed pilots' adversity. My info is a lot of our laid off pilots snagged really good jobs.

 

[G4dude]

Got it. I respect your opinion of the union, even if it's not favorable.
However, I'd still be curious to know your answers to the questions I posted.

Also curious to know how the union will mess up a good thing? What, specifically, has the union done to reduce the quality of this job? For the record, we on the "A" side were hoping that when the integration was complete that the company would adopt more of NJI's practices than sticking with the "A" side's practices. Sadly, it didn't work out that way. But I'd love to hear how you think that was the union's doing (if that's what you believe).

Who changed the airlining policy? Who switched the 401k without any details and completely in violation of the CBA? Who brought the IRS in so that we're now taxed beyond 2 crew meals (I realize that the "I" side didn't do per diem, but as we are now all under the CBA, you get per diem and the new crew food/per diem tax rules affect you too)? Who wants to alter our scope clause so they can allow more outsiders to do our flying? Who decided that the Gulfstream program was essentially over and we are going with Globals (which, by the way, if it hadn't been for the integration would have spelled the end of your employment here.)? Who has decided to start bringing pilots to CMH for a carpet dance for using our supposedly 'no fault' fatigue call policy?

There's just too much more to post here. But given all of that, what is causing you to question if the UNION is going to mess things up? Who is responsible for all of that? Who is trying to prevent a great deal of that? Integration aside (I suspect that would have happened with this new management team even without the union asking for it), what has the union done that makes you wonder if the union is going to mess up a perfectly good job? Okay, you don't like the tone and content of Luthi's messages. Fair enough. But what, exactly, is he advocating that would make this job worse?

The only people I see trying to make the job less than what it once was are not working for the union.

The specifics are valid, and will be worked out in time. My worry is macro. I am worried the union will gradually increase NJAs operating costs to the point where we can't compete in the marketplace. In my formative years, I saw the Eastern Airlines employees perpetually at war with their employer. They eventually created such an underperforming company that the stock was worth more dead than alive, creating Frank Lorenzo. He was not the problem, the underproductive and sullen unions, especially the machinists, were the problem. Lorenzo merely bought the dead carcass.

 

[Jack Campbell]

I meant hopefully they will get a job that's even better than the one at NJA. I am hoping a good thing will come out of the furloughed pilots' adversity. My info is a lot of our laid off pilots snagged really good jobs.

I appreciate your good wishes. The reality is that there are a lot of great guys who were furloughed from NJA whose careers are in ruins and their personal lives have been severly negatively affected. The current job market is beyond horrible and we cannot afford to wait for a recall or when the majors may begin hiring in 2012. When a pilot is out of the cockpit for a few months, most employers do not consider him for employment. As a furloughed pilot, I would say that a select few furloughed pilots found some really cool jobs, some furloughed pilots found decent jobs that pay the bills and keep them current, and most of us are suffering greatly right now. Myself, I am doing well, but I have a lot of experience and got lucky being in the right place at the right time and was willing to make a great sacrifice to stay employed. But my QOL is nowhere near where it was at NJ.

 

[G4dude]

I appreciate your good wishes. The reality is that there are a lot of great guys who were furloughed from NJA whose careers are in ruins and their personal lives have been severly negatively affected. The current job market is beyond horrible and we cannot afford to wait for a recall or when the majors may begin hiring in 2012. When a pilot is out of the cockpit for a few months, most employers do not consider him for employment. As a furloughed pilot, I would say that a select few furloughed pilots found some really cool jobs, some furloughed pilots found decent jobs that pay the bills and keep them current, and most of us are suffering greatly right now. Myself, I am doing well, but I have a lot of experience and got lucky being in the right place at the right time and was willing to make a great sacrifice to stay employed. But my QOL is nowhere near where it was at NJ.

We need a healthy growing economy as soon as possible. Best wishes to all.

 

[BentOver]

The specifics are valid, and will be worked out in time. My worry is macro. I am worried the union will gradually increase NJAs operating costs to the point where we can't compete in the marketplace. In my formative years, I saw the Eastern Airlines employees perpetually at war with their employer. They eventually created such an underperforming company that the stock was worth more dead than alive, creating Frank Lorenzo. He was not the problem, the underproductive and sullen unions, especially the machinists, were the problem. Lorenzo merely bought the dead carcass.

You do understand your are maybe one of the .01% of pilots who may actually think Lorenzo wasn't a problem...... It would be one thing if your opinion just differed, but you're on a whole new level of out there. I hate to say it but ya gotta grow a back bone man....... I'm not against differing opinions but really???

Lorenzo is considered, among other things, the worst thing ever to happen to an airline pilot in the 80's and early 90's. He was doing his thing before I was even in high school. And even I know he was a complete jacka.ss.....