NetJets To Picket

[rajflyboy]

"Courts have ruled that a dispute is minor if the employer's action complained of by a contract employee is "arguably justified" by the collective bargaining agreement."

The change of our 401K provider is in no way "arguably justified". The CBA is quite clear. It also entails far more than a dispute between a contract employee and employer. This affects multiple bargaining units and non-contract employees alike, and involves hundreds of millions of dollars.

We can argue the intent, individual interpretations, and personal opinions all day. The only way we would have known for sure would have been to file an injunction before the fact to cease and desist. We may have found the effort fruitless, but at least we would have tried. I'd rather use dues for more productive efforts rather than key chains and such.

Meanwhile, I'll dress warm, wear comfortable shoes (fully uniforn compliant of course), look sharp this coming 12th of December, and await the results of the path we chose to take.

Good thoughts here

 

[fischman]

We pay dues and expect our leadership to enforce the current contract. Why is that not happening? Court action isn't working. That is pretty obvious.

What is obvious is your impatience with the system. These things take time. Stomping your feet, having a tantrum, and screaming "now NOW NOW" isn't how to get what you want.

 

[G4dude]

The really funny thing is that their actions have almost been a play by play of the book.. AND management apparently thinks we are not smart enough to read the book and realize what is going on.

On another note, right on cue, savethegoldengoose.com had an update this week. The idiot posted nothing more than a picture of Pinnocio (sp?) referring to Luthi.... How much more immature can management get?

When I read Luthi's rantings, I don't even recognize the company he is talking about. Neither do my colleagues at the former NJI. We are laughing at you guys, albeit ruefully, as you don't even realize how good your job is, how marvelous NJA is compared to reality. Can union people ever be happy and contented? I think not.

 

[CA1900]

We were very happy and content, up until Sokol started destroying what we all built.

 

[nordo_2]

When I read Luthi's rantings, I don't even recognize the company he is talking about. Neither do my colleagues at the former NJI. We are laughing at you guys, albeit ruefully, as you don't even realize how good your job is, how marvelous NJA is compared to reality. Can union people ever be happy and contented? I think not.

Go check SWA out smart guy....

 

[BentOver]

When I read Luthi's rantings, I don't even recognize the company he is talking about. Neither do my colleagues at the former NJI. We are laughing at you guys, albeit ruefully, as you don't even realize how good your job is, how marvelous NJA is compared to reality. Can union people ever be happy and contented? I think not.

I'm furloughed moron..... sooo ummm yeah my NJA job is great....

I don't like some of the decisions the Union has made.. (msg. board access, last years extended day msg., and I don't think the FWG was adequate (if they spent a year developing the FWG then I believe it was a huge waste of about 8 months))

But given my distain for alot of what NJASAP has decided, I would take being part of a Union 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. You and your NJI colleagues are no friends or co-workers of mine. (assuming I ever see NJA again)

And the best part is you are now part of NJASAP and there's not a thing you can do about it. Best get on board with the rest of the 3000 or so or have your little laugh with your very small minority. Your working conditions and QOL now depend on the voting majority.

Or, as many suspect here, go back to Eyers office and continue with your reach around.

 

[nordo_2]

I'm furloughed moron..... sooo ummm yeah my NJA job is great....

I don't like some of the decisions the Union has made.. (msg. board access, last years extended day msg., and I don't think the FWG was adequate (if they spent a year developing the FWG then I believe it was a huge waste of about 8 months))

But given my distain for alot of what NJASAP has decided, I would take being part of a Union 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. You and your NJI colleagues are no friends or co-workers of mine. (assuming I ever see NJA again)

And the best part is you are now part of NJASAP and there's not a thing you can do about it. Best get on board with the rest of the 3000 or so or have your little laugh with your very small minority. Your working conditions and QOL now depend on the voting majority.

Or, as many suspect here, go back to Eyers office and continue with your reach around.

What this guy said. I'm about to be furloughed. Best job? Really....

 

[realityman]

When I read Luthi's rantings, I don't even recognize the company he is talking about. Neither do my colleagues at the former NJI. We are laughing at you guys, albeit ruefully, as you don't even realize how good your job is, how marvelous NJA is compared to reality. Can union people ever be happy and contented? I think not.

Yes, it IS a good job. And I'd like it to stay that way, thank you very much! If you can't see what's going on, then it's only because you refuse to see.

Just wondering G4, but if you were to build a house, and you had a signed contract with the builder covering ALL of the specifics, and one of the things in the contract was that the builder MUST use a certain type of insulation that you want and paid for, and he isn't allowed to change it without your permission, would it then be okay with you if he used a different insulation, assured you it was just as good, but refused to give you any real details about it, and never consulted you about the change, and you had no way to verify the truth of what he was telling you until AFTER the house was built? Because that's just one of the things that you and your laughing buddies think is so amusing (although I know quite a few former NJI pilots, and while not all of them think a union is so great, I don't know any who have even implied that what we're doing is a joke of any kind) with this 401k deal.

Or maybe you really don't understand because up until recently you haven't been in this union, or operating with a contract. But I wonder if in your personal world, anytime you've done anything that required a contract, if you were, or would be, fine with those contracts being eroded or ignored by the other party. So? It's just a change in insulation. Still a great house! Oh, now the contractor says he'll be using a cheaper brick that isn't as good (even though you both signed a contract for the good brick). Eh, look how big and beautiful this house will be! Who cares about a small downgrade in brick quality! Wait, now he's not even going to install the windows at all?! Yeah, you paid for them, but hey, who cares about holes where the windows should be? I mean, just LOOK at what a great house this is gonna be!

Don't worry G4, you keep right on laughing. The rest of us will do the work so that all you'll ever see is a great job. Wouldn't wanna upset you by showing you the dirty underbelly of this house.

 

[brokeflyer]

what the company is doing to you guys is using a cheaper insulation than what you paid for and they just pocket the difference.....thats illegal.

 

[Hogprint]

When I read Luthi's rantings, I don't even recognize the company he is talking about. Neither do my colleagues at the former NJI. We are laughing at you guys, albeit ruefully, as you don't even realize how good your job is, how marvelous NJA is compared to reality. Can union people ever be happy and contented? I think not.G4Dude

Nothing like continuing the Us v/s Them attitude eh G4?

And the best part is you are now part of NJASAP and there's not a thing you can do about it. Best get on board with the rest of the 3000 or so or have your little laugh with your very small minority. Your working conditions and QOL now depend on the voting majority. BentOver

Truer words have not been spoken. Are you listening G4?

 

[fischman]

I'm curious if the GLC guys are going to be laughing after they have to fight for what we have. So far, they have been handed everything from the sweat off of NJASAP's brow...

 

[gutshotdraw]

I'm curious if the GLC guys are going to be laughing after they have to fight for what we have. So far, they have been handed everything from the sweat off of NJASAP's brow...

Gee, that's funny Fisch. I don't recall anybody from NJASAP in the cockpit next to me when I was earning the 7000 flight hours and Gulfstream type rating it took to get hired by NJI....

Jussss sayin.

 

[NJAowner]

The Law

Reality man -- while i do not know gth especifics in a labor venue since you say:

Just wondering G4, but if you were to build a house, and you had a signed contract with the builder covering ALL of the specifics, and one of the things in the contract was that the builder MUST use a certain type of insulation that you want and paid for, and he isn't allowed to change it without your permission, would it then be okay with you if he used a different insulation, assured you it was just as good, but refused to give you any real details about it, and never consulted you about the change, and you had no way to verify the truth of what he was telling you until AFTER the house was built? Because that's just one of the things that you and your laughing buddies think is so amusing (although I know quite a few former NJI pilots, and while not all of them think a union is so great, I don't know any who have even implied that what we're doing is a joke of any kind) with this 401k deal.

Your analogy is addressed by a very famous case. You may want to read the seminal Reading Pipe case, Jacob & Young v Kent. Labor law may me different but this may deal with your analogy, and more facts may be needed.

 

[BentOver]

Gee, that's funny Fisch. I don't recall anybody from NJASAP in the cockpit next to me when I was earning the 7000 flight hours and Gulfstream type rating it took to get hired by NJI....

Jussss sayin.

I know guys who went to NJI without the type....hope you didn't have to pay for the type.

There were no NJASAP guys next to me when I earned the 7000 hrs before going to NJA either. But I'm still proud to have been part of the Union, and still consider myself a NJASAP member... What's your point?

If it wasn't for the unionized workforces in aviation, the low pay would trickle down to every facet of aviation. Aviation needs unions because there are far too many that would do this job for free or for less. Unlike doctors/lawyers, pilots have shown their willingness to work for peanuts just to "be in the air, accumulating flight time."

 

[fischman]

Gee, that's funny Fisch. I don't recall anybody from NJASAP in the cockpit next to me when I was earning the 7000 flight hours and Gulfstream type rating it took to get hired by NJI....

Jussss sayin.

I'm referring to the CBA we fought for and the GLC guys are reaping the benefits of. I'm sure some will come back about getting a pay cut, but remember that the CBA is more comprehensive than section 27. All GLC crew members are benefiting from it whether they want to admit it or not.

 

[NachoMamma]

I'm referring to the CBA we fought for and the GLC guys are reaping the benefits of...All GLC crew members are benefiting from it whether they want to admit it or not.

and not one of them paid a single solitary dime for said privilege, but for some reason were integrated according to DOH anyway. Free seniority...what a deal.

 

[realityman]

Reality man -- while i do not know gth especifics in a labor venue since you say:

Just wondering G4, but if you were to build a house, and you had a signed contract with the builder covering ALL of the specifics, and one of the things in the contract was that the builder MUST use a certain type of insulation that you want and paid for, and he isn't allowed to change it without your permission, would it then be okay with you if he used a different insulation, assured you it was just as good, but refused to give you any real details about it, and never consulted you about the change, and you had no way to verify the truth of what he was telling you until AFTER the house was built? Because that's just one of the things that you and your laughing buddies think is so amusing (although I know quite a few former NJI pilots, and while not all of them think a union is so great, I don't know any who have even implied that what we're doing is a joke of any kind) with this 401k deal.

Your analogy is addressed by a very famous case. You may want to read the seminal Reading Pipe case, Jacob & Young v Kent. Labor law may me different but this may deal with your analogy, and more facts may be needed.

Thanks Owner. I will look it up during my standby time today.

I guess my point was for G4 that our contract, and by association, our compensation package, is being chipped away at little by little (although they are carving out bigger and bigger hunks as they go along), but he has said he finds it amusing "albeit ruefully" that we're trying to put a stop to it. Glad it's funny to him. I wonder if he finds it so funny how any airline under 10 hours will now be flown in coach, which is something that almost exclusively affects the Gulfstream pilots?
But hey, it's not that big a deal, right? Certainly not worth making a big fuss with the company over. It's just ONE thing, right? Why worry about that slightly lower quality brick. It's gonna be a beautiful house!

 

[G4dude]

I'm referring to the CBA we fought for and the GLC guys are reaping the benefits of. I'm sure some will come back about getting a pay cut, but remember that the CBA is more comprehensive than section 27. All GLC crew members are benefiting from it whether they want to admit it or not.

Not only do I NOT admit it, I maintain my job was BETTER when I worked for the non union NJI. And our future prospects were better, because we worked with management instead against them, which made NJI more competitive and more pleasant to work for.

 

[G4dude]

and not one of them paid a single solitary dime for said privilege, but for some reason were integrated according to DOH anyway. Free seniority...what a deal.

Free seniority for being FORCED to pay dues, you mean.

 

[G4dude]

Thanks Owner. I will look it up during my standby time today.

I guess my point was for G4 that our contract, and by association, our compensation package, is being chipped away at little by little (although they are carving out bigger and bigger hunks as they go along), but he has said he finds it amusing "albeit ruefully" that we're trying to put a stop to it. Glad it's funny to him. I wonder if he finds it so funny how any airline under 10 hours will now be flown in coach, which is something that almost exclusively affects the Gulfstream pilots?
But hey, it's not that big a deal, right? Certainly not worth making a big fuss with the company over. It's just ONE thing, right? Why worry about that slightly lower quality brick. It's gonna be a beautiful house!

Good post, realityman. I HATE the 10 hour rule, but it saves the company a lot of money, and I am willing to put up with it. A "slightly lower" quality of life here at NetJets seems a small price to pay for job security in this perilous economy. I want NJA to be competitive, to make a good profit, so I and my friends can stay employed and feed our families. You and I want the same things, but we differ on how best to secure them. Cheers!