NetJets To Picket

[BentOver]

Then I would go and get a cushy job somewhere else, with my credentials. I still don't need a group of (sorry fischman) thugs representing me. By the way, the reason I would lose my job in your scenario is because of - wait for it- the UNION. Oh the irony!

The real irony is that you, a self-proclaimed anti-union guy, is now part of one of the strongest unions in aviation. hmmm, go figure...

Like I said earlier, you're gonna have to learn to accept it. Your interests now are lumped in with 2500-3000 other voting members. Who are out for the collective good of the pilot group. No more behind the scenes deals to make yourself the apple of managements eye. (of course this still assumes you're not management, which, given the amount of time you spend here, is still up for debate)

 

[fischman]

Then I would go and get a cushy job somewhere else, with my credentials. I still don't need a group of (sorry fischman) thugs representing me. By the way, the reason I would lose my job in your scenario is because of - wait for it- the UNION. Oh the irony!

If you want to call the Teamsters thugs (No offense to CitationAir or FLOPS), go right ahead. There is a reason the Teamsters were voted out and NJASAP was created. I think calling yourself a thug is a bit hypocritical though brother!

Also, I will disagree with you thinking that you would lose you job in that scenario due to the union. When you were a non-bargaining employee, you were at the whim to management (which is what you claimed to have wanted). If management decided to fire all of you guys and start from scratch with an all new Global fleet with cheaper, younger, new-hire pilots there isn't a thing you could have done about it. (Which, if I were a manager, I would consider doing. It is going to cost millions for all those type ratings. Why not get the cheapest pilot you can?) The Union has NO SAY in the amount, or type of employees the company decided to keep on payroll.

Luckily for you, you now belong to a union where that can not happen. If management wants a reduction in work force, it will be done fairly in seniority order. Does that mean some GLC guys will lose jobs? Yes, but so will guys from other fleets as well.

 

[B19 Flyer]

At 58 years old, I would consider this one of the most desperate moment of my life walking around with a sign saying that my employer has tried to screw me. The haven't and if you think they have, you are an idiot for working for them. I have always thanked my employer for giving me a paycheck...and if you don't, go to work for somebody you do want to thank!

Man up. What I understand is they changed the friggen manager of a employee benefit plan which means jack in life.

..and the idiot that keeps posting concessions never work...it is called negotiating. You don't want to deal, they will find someone else that will and you lose! Too many pilots and not enough jobs. Your contract means nothing if there isn't any money to pay you.

A post that makes perfect sense? Gret, nobody's gonna pay attention to you.

 

[B19 Flyer]

The real irony is that you, a self-proclaimed anti-union guy, is now part of one of the strongest unions in aviation. hmmm, go figure...

Like I said earlier, you're gonna have to learn to accept it. Your interests now are lumped in with 2500-3000 other voting members. Who are out for the collective good of the pilot group. No more behind the scenes deals to make yourself the apple of managements eye. (of course this still assumes you're not management, which, given the amount of time you spend here, is still up for debate)

Hang on a minute... got to pick myself up off the floor on this one...:laugh:

Explain the line above to all those furloughed pilots...

I've just gone through 3 pages of whine after whine after whine.

Would all of you like some cheese with that whine?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Honest question:

How can you not see that QOL adjustments that the company arbitrarily makes only line the CEO's pockets? They don't "save" the company, or make it more competitive. The ONLY thing that does that are MORE OWNERS that the EMT is DRIVING away. Doesn't that bother you?

Yes... you can check the books. The CEO has gone from cotton to nylon inside his pockets. Clearly, he's lining his pockets and it's perfectly legal. He's about to hit the silk next....

 

[B19 Flyer]

Like I said earlier, the "flat economy" is not longer a valid excuse. We are not selling shares because the EMT is DRIVING THE OWNERS AWAY. Our company doesn't advertise because most of our business was written by word of mouth. What do you think happens when the owners recommendations to their friends is negative? That is precisely what is happening my friend.

The great thing about you working in a union shop is now if the company decides to make the job "less desirable" than another job, they can't arbitrarily do it. They have to comply with the CBA, and you won't HAVE to go looking. See where I'm going here?

I see exactly where you are going. The thing about working for a union shop is that when the revenue begins to flatten, then decrease the company still needs to comply with the CBA which was agreed to when the revenue wasn't flat!

You see, this way those on the bottom end of the list get to look for new employment while those on the top of the list get to keep their lifestyle!

What could be better than being a union pilot with a great paycheck and watching the "commoners" fall off the list a bunch at at time. Oh, the excitement of it all! :beer:

 

[CA1900]

A huge percentage of US workers are non union.

And yet a huge percentage in the aviation sector is unionized. Ever thought about why that is?

 

[fischman]

Yes... you can check the books. The CEO has gone from cotton to nylon inside his pockets. Clearly, he's lining his pockets and it's perfectly legal. He's about to hit the silk next....

I'm curious how you have such intimate knowledge of what type of pockets the CEO has?

 

[LAZYB]

NJI had some discretion with pay. My main point is that I want the company to be free to behave in it's self interest. I also want to be free to behave in MY self interest. If those two things intersect, I have a job. I don't want or need somebody else representing me in my dealings with the company. This is not some radical idea, by the way. A huge percentage of US workers are non union.

You are as obtusely insightful and intellectual as Obama, or a beauty pageant contestant.

 

[BentOver]

Hang on a minute... got to pick myself up off the floor on this one...:laugh:

Explain the line above to all those furloughed pilots...

I've just gone through 3 pages of whine after whine after whine.

Would all of you like some cheese with that whine?

Let me spell it out for you assuming you have the ability to read.....

I'm furloughed from Netjets, and would rather be furloughed than be taking it in the shorts with a non-union carrier. Or even worse, be part of a Union that gives in to every wimper management makes.

 

[CA1900]

Exactly. Plus, the company will furlough/recall the exact same number of pilots* whether or not we take concessions. The only difference is whether the job is worth coming back to.


* unless scope is one of the concessions. Then they'll furlough many more.

 

[imacdog]

Sorry, I just don't share your opinion of management's motives and actions. Doesn't mean I am evil. Or a liar.

You can stop pretending any time.

 

[BentOver]

Exactly. Plus, the company will furlough/recall the exact same number of pilots* whether or not we take concessions. The only difference is whether the job is worth coming back to.


* unless scope is one of the concessions. Then they'll furlough many more.

In a weird way, I think management doing the "furlough as many as would be recalled due to 1.5.4(c)" may work out in NJASAp's favor, and possibly some pilots..... Follow me if I don't sound too ridiculuous....

1) How poorly would that scenario look to the viewers of CNBC, or on Squawk Box.....A network that has had Santulli on a few times, Sokol, and of course the great WB...And concerning one of the companies the late, not so great, David Sokol was once at the controls of. Netjets already looks pretty messed up given the relationship with Sokol. ow add in the harshness of furloughing guys at will only to recall them back in 120 days.

2) Along with that, paying them for 2 months. Recalling them 2 months later, incurring the charge of retraining, and/or re-typing them in a new a/c.

3) Some SIC's may benefit from obtaining another type. I know the X is a terrible type to have. Very few jobs for X guys. But I'd love to have the chance to get a free type ala Netjets stupidity. All for getting dicked round by managements furlough/recall scenario.

4) 2 Months leave with pay followed by a short sit at home may work for alot of people?


I don't know for sure what they will do with a breach of 1.5.4(c), but maybe the expected plan isn't all that bad. (for those that can afford a 2 month break etc)....

Of course just a straight recall would be acceptable too!! Maybe they'll get their heads out of their a.sses and just bite the bullet instead of facing the bad press?

 

[G4dude]

And yet a huge percentage in the aviation sector is unionized. Ever thought about why that is?

Because airlines have such a huge capital outlay in equipment and infrastructure, the unions hold a gun to their head and say, "give us confiscatory wages and benefits or we will shut you down."

 

[G4dude]

You are as obtusely insightful and intellectual as Obama, or a beauty pageant contestant.

The funny thing is, y'all think I am some sort of radical. My views are middle of the road at the former NJI. Even my co captain last week, who is very liberal politically and a big Obama supporter, hates unions, and thinks NJASAP leadership is a bunch of fools.

 

[G4dude]

Let me spell it out for you assuming you have the ability to read.....

I'm furloughed from Netjets, and would rather be furloughed than be taking it in the shorts with a non-union carrier. Or even worse, be part of a Union that gives in to every wimper management makes.

And I would fight for your right to choose. Why did you not give me the same right, instead forcing me to pay dues to a union I vehemently disagree with? By the way, I would take any job I could, union or not, if it allowed me to feed my family.

 

[OPECJet]

And I would fight for your right to choose. Why did you not give me the same right, instead forcing me to pay dues to a union I vehemently disagree with? By the way, I would take any job I could, union or not, if it allowed me to feed my family.

No one is forcing you to pay dues.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The funny thing is, y'all think I am some sort of radical. My views are middle of the road at the former NJI. Even my co captain last week, who is very liberal politically and a big Obama supporter, hates unions, and thinks NJASAP leadership is a bunch of fools.

And how is our favorite Air and Space Museum Docent these days? That must have been a sight, you two flying together....

 

[G4dude]

And how is our favorite Air and Space Museum Docent these days? That must have been a sight, you two flying together....

Believe it or not, although the guy you cite is another liberal who dislikes unions, but my friend in this case was DS. Cheers!

 

[G4dude]

No one is forcing you to pay dues.

Either pay or lose my job. Sounds like force to me, Opec.