NetJets To Picket

[G4dude]

SICs gotta bail. I love it.

I meant hopefully they will get a job that's even better than the one at NJA. I am hoping a good thing will come out of the furloughed pilots' adversity. My info is a lot of our laid off pilots snagged really good jobs.

 

[G4dude]

Got it. I respect your opinion of the union, even if it's not favorable.
However, I'd still be curious to know your answers to the questions I posted.

Also curious to know how the union will mess up a good thing? What, specifically, has the union done to reduce the quality of this job? For the record, we on the "A" side were hoping that when the integration was complete that the company would adopt more of NJI's practices than sticking with the "A" side's practices. Sadly, it didn't work out that way. But I'd love to hear how you think that was the union's doing (if that's what you believe).

Who changed the airlining policy? Who switched the 401k without any details and completely in violation of the CBA? Who brought the IRS in so that we're now taxed beyond 2 crew meals (I realize that the "I" side didn't do per diem, but as we are now all under the CBA, you get per diem and the new crew food/per diem tax rules affect you too)? Who wants to alter our scope clause so they can allow more outsiders to do our flying? Who decided that the Gulfstream program was essentially over and we are going with Globals (which, by the way, if it hadn't been for the integration would have spelled the end of your employment here.)? Who has decided to start bringing pilots to CMH for a carpet dance for using our supposedly 'no fault' fatigue call policy?

There's just too much more to post here. But given all of that, what is causing you to question if the UNION is going to mess things up? Who is responsible for all of that? Who is trying to prevent a great deal of that? Integration aside (I suspect that would have happened with this new management team even without the union asking for it), what has the union done that makes you wonder if the union is going to mess up a perfectly good job? Okay, you don't like the tone and content of Luthi's messages. Fair enough. But what, exactly, is he advocating that would make this job worse?

The only people I see trying to make the job less than what it once was are not working for the union.

The specifics are valid, and will be worked out in time. My worry is macro. I am worried the union will gradually increase NJAs operating costs to the point where we can't compete in the marketplace. In my formative years, I saw the Eastern Airlines employees perpetually at war with their employer. They eventually created such an underperforming company that the stock was worth more dead than alive, creating Frank Lorenzo. He was not the problem, the underproductive and sullen unions, especially the machinists, were the problem. Lorenzo merely bought the dead carcass.

 

[Jack Campbell]

I meant hopefully they will get a job that's even better than the one at NJA. I am hoping a good thing will come out of the furloughed pilots' adversity. My info is a lot of our laid off pilots snagged really good jobs.

I appreciate your good wishes. The reality is that there are a lot of great guys who were furloughed from NJA whose careers are in ruins and their personal lives have been severly negatively affected. The current job market is beyond horrible and we cannot afford to wait for a recall or when the majors may begin hiring in 2012. When a pilot is out of the cockpit for a few months, most employers do not consider him for employment. As a furloughed pilot, I would say that a select few furloughed pilots found some really cool jobs, some furloughed pilots found decent jobs that pay the bills and keep them current, and most of us are suffering greatly right now. Myself, I am doing well, but I have a lot of experience and got lucky being in the right place at the right time and was willing to make a great sacrifice to stay employed. But my QOL is nowhere near where it was at NJ.

 

[G4dude]

I appreciate your good wishes. The reality is that there are a lot of great guys who were furloughed from NJA whose careers are in ruins and their personal lives have been severly negatively affected. The current job market is beyond horrible and we cannot afford to wait for a recall or when the majors may begin hiring in 2012. When a pilot is out of the cockpit for a few months, most employers do not consider him for employment. As a furloughed pilot, I would say that a select few furloughed pilots found some really cool jobs, some furloughed pilots found decent jobs that pay the bills and keep them current, and most of us are suffering greatly right now. Myself, I am doing well, but I have a lot of experience and got lucky being in the right place at the right time and was willing to make a great sacrifice to stay employed. But my QOL is nowhere near where it was at NJ.

We need a healthy growing economy as soon as possible. Best wishes to all.

 

[BentOver]

The specifics are valid, and will be worked out in time. My worry is macro. I am worried the union will gradually increase NJAs operating costs to the point where we can't compete in the marketplace. In my formative years, I saw the Eastern Airlines employees perpetually at war with their employer. They eventually created such an underperforming company that the stock was worth more dead than alive, creating Frank Lorenzo. He was not the problem, the underproductive and sullen unions, especially the machinists, were the problem. Lorenzo merely bought the dead carcass.

You do understand your are maybe one of the .01% of pilots who may actually think Lorenzo wasn't a problem...... It would be one thing if your opinion just differed, but you're on a whole new level of out there. I hate to say it but ya gotta grow a back bone man....... I'm not against differing opinions but really???

Lorenzo is considered, among other things, the worst thing ever to happen to an airline pilot in the 80's and early 90's. He was doing his thing before I was even in high school. And even I know he was a complete jacka.ss.....

 

[wacoflyr]

Lorenzo merely bought the dead carcass.

If that's the case, I can't think why he was forbidden by the justice department from ever being involved with any airline for the rest of his life. You don't get banned for life for doing good deeds.

 

[BentOver]

If that's the case, I can't think why he was forbidden by the justice department from ever being involved with any airline for the rest of his life. You don't get banned for life for doing good deeds.

Yes, unfortunately NJA has atleast one person who doesn't think Lorenzo was bad for aviation. Please don't judge the rest of us based on 1.

 

[realityman]

The specifics are valid, and will be worked out in time. My worry is macro. I am worried the union will gradually increase NJAs operating costs to the point where we can't compete in the marketplace. In my formative years, I saw the Eastern Airlines employees perpetually at war with their employer. They eventually created such an underperforming company that the stock was worth more dead than alive, creating Frank Lorenzo. He was not the problem, the underproductive and sullen unions, especially the machinists, were the problem. Lorenzo merely bought the dead carcass.

Your fears are valid, however at this time we aren't asking for more. We're asking, no, DEMANDING that our employer honor the contract we currently have. That's not unreasonable. What response do you think the company would have if you are on the 7/7 schedule, but decided you were only going to show up for work for 5 of those days just because you didn't like it? Do you think there might be some action taken by the company to correct that behaviour (carpet dance, demotion, or fired?)? Well, not sure why some folks are so worried that the union is taking action when it's the company violating the contract. Sorry, the contract applies to BOTH parties.

Anyway, I've enjoyed the back and forth with you G4, but you just lost pretty much ALL credibility with me as soon as I read your comments regarding Lorenzo above. You were just kidding, right?! If nothing else, wacoflyer's comment hit the nail on the head. Oh poor Lorenzo, he was just taking advantage of a good business opportunity brought about by those nasty unions?uke:

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Hate the game, not the player. We hate the idiots who think nothing is wrong at Netjets

Too funny...

I love their posters, but didn't realize they had videos, too. Some of those hit a little close to home!

Actually, Waldo would prefer to pump your hand and drop F-bombs like a garbageman (ya know- come down to your level) and then slip away to use the hand sanitizer.

But seriously, we know their side will be taking names etc. Is there someone on our side planning to videotape this event so it can't be maligned or downplayed later?

 

[rajflyboy]

G4

could you possible be on the "S" list?

 

[OPECJet]

I'm surprised the company hasn't tried to re-time the lunch break during company recurrent to NOT coincide with the picket event.

 

[imacdog]

Anyway, I've enjoyed the back and forth with you G4, but you just lost pretty much ALL credibility with me as soon as I read your comments regarding Lorenzo above.

I'm surprised it took as long as it did. :laugh:

 

[G4dude]

G4

could you possible be on the "S" list?

What's that?

 

[G4dude]

Your fears are valid, however at this time we aren't asking for more. We're asking, no, DEMANDING that our employer honor the contract we currently have. That's not unreasonable. What response do you think the company would have if you are on the 7/7 schedule, but decided you were only going to show up for work for 5 of those days just because you didn't like it? Do you think there might be some action taken by the company to correct that behaviour (carpet dance, demotion, or fired?)? Well, not sure why some folks are so worried that the union is taking action when it's the company violating the contract. Sorry, the contract applies to BOTH parties.

Anyway, I've enjoyed the back and forth with you G4, but you just lost pretty much ALL credibility with me as soon as I read your comments regarding Lorenzo above. You were just kidding, right?! If nothing else, wacoflyer's comment hit the nail on the head. Oh poor Lorenzo, he was just taking advantage of a good business opportunity brought about by those nasty unions?uke:

My point is that if it hadn't been Lorenzo, it would have been Icahn or Pickens or somebody else, buying a dead company whose assets were worth more than the functioning corporation. I am no fan of Lorenzo.

 

[G4dude]

Yes, unfortunately NJA has atleast one person who doesn't think Lorenzo was bad for aviation. Please don't judge the rest of us based on 1.

What on earth led you guys to think I am a fan of Lorenzo? Nothing in my posts said that.