NetJets Strike Passes By 93%

[FLYLOW22]

My personal favorite was the pilot who called in fatigued 15 minutes before an owner flight, even though he was coming off 15 hours of rest and no flights the previous day.

Yes, with behavior like that, its understandable that the schedulers will quickly learn who is a reliable professional and who is not...

It is hard to debate the actions of this pilot. You don't have all of the facts and neither do I.

Did the pilot sleep ok the night before? Did the pilot eat properly? Did the pilot just get off of a few min rest overnights? Did the pilot just finish several 14 hour days or do some back side of the clock/front side of the clock switcheroos? I would love to get you office types out here on the line for a tour or two. Love it.

Reliable professional or consumate professional?

Reliable sounds like Gary Hart talking. It has a double meaning. Reliable isn't always safe.

We are instructed by "management" to punch out for fatigue reasons at any time prior to a flight; 15 minutes included. We have seen "management" intimidate crews by bringing them into CMH for "counseling" as to why they fatigued out. We have also seem "management" terminate pilots for supposedly sleeping in the cockpit. "Management" seems to want it both ways. Pilots can't be tired according to NJA. They are supposed to be machines absent of any human characteristics resembling the need for adequate rest.

Fatigue will kill a crew and Owner(s) here one day if this attitude persists. It just will.

I think the pilot did the right thing. Flying fatigued makes no more sense than flying with no arms. Fatigue also doesn't just annouce itself to the pilot. It is quiet and insidious. Once it sets in... too late if your airborne.

I guess what "management" is telling us to do is hit the gas even thought the stop light is yellow. We might make it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Tell that to the aviation mechanics out there. The airlines have increased the percentage of maintenance outsourced from 37% in 1996 to 51% this year....

Simple facts are obvious....union representation of private sector employees has dropped to just 7.9% of all employees....here's the Bureau of Labor statistics official numbers:

Separation:

Ooooh. Now outsourcing is a comletely different animal than Union representation.

Management in Corporate America would oursource their mothers if they could. It's all about the numbers with the beano counters.

On Point:

Let's keep the topic on what it was; Aviation Employees remain some of the heaviest Unionized in history. Period. Undisbuted. Had those mechanic jobs you mentioned still existed absent of outsourcing then they would be Unionized. Outsourcing is not a voluntary employee action. It is imposed.

I admit that Union respresentation of private sector employees has declined in the US for several reasons. One of those reasons is the fact that MANUFACTURING JOBS, once hugely Unionized, have been outsourced to other countries thereby sacrificing quality for price. Some SERVICE JOBS (like aviation mechanics) have been outsourced as well but nowhere near the number of manufacturing jobs.

"Management" would love to outsource pilot jobs but fortunately for pilots in the US there are strong Cabotage laws.

Macro View:

Unionized labor is what brought pay and benefits in the US to the levels they were. Many of those pay and benefits packages are drying up as profits become more of a priority than labor well being.

As that trend continues to it's eventual breaking point (when more than an average number of Americans is affected- it's happening already) we will all see an increase in Unionization again. That is my prediction.

Management only increases pay and benes when they are forced to. They are profit maximizers. They are monolithic. It's nothing personal... it's business.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I admit that Union respresentation of private sector employees has declined in the US for several reasons. One of those reasons is the fact that MANUFACTURING JOBS, once hugely Unionized, have been outsourced to other countries thereby sacrificing quality for price. Some SERVICE JOBS (like aviation mechanics) have been outsourced as well but nowhere near the number of manufacturing jobs.

"Management" would love to outsource pilot jobs but fortunately for pilots in the US there are strong Cabotage laws.

Look at the auto industry - one of the largest manufacturing industries out there. Unions have been wholly unsuccessful in unionizing the transplant facilities that have been built in the US by Honda, Toyota, and others. Why?

Has all the auto manufacturing jobs that shifted from GM, Ford, and Chrysler resulted in a sacrifice of QUALITY? Face it....Toyota, Honda, and most other imports are vastly superior to the American product.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Look at the auto industry - one of the largest manufacturing industries out there. Unions have been wholly unsuccessful in unionizing the transplant facilities that have been built in the US by Honda, Toyota, and others. Why?

Has all the auto manufacturing jobs that shifted from GM, Ford, and Chrysler resulted in a sacrifice of QUALITY? Face it....Toyota, Honda, and most other imports are vastly superior to the American product.

I am not in the manufacturing industry, much less the automobile industry. I have no clue how one motor company treats it's employees compared to another.

I did notice that you mentioned several US based companies as Unionized and several Foreign based companies as non Union.

Again, can't comment on the topic as I am not well versed in that industry.

The majority of Aviation employees in the US are Unionized. I CAN tell you that is a fact.

 

[Hawkered]

We now have a union official telling everyone that the resignation of training captains in the Falcon was doomed before it started. Great news huh, so it was a job action? Or wasn't it?

Will s/he say the same thing of any future action?

So labelling all of the people who extended: 600 or so, will they all be labled as scabs? If so, how long will a strike action last?

We're screwed!!@

Hey Family Guy, we have more foreigners here than I've ever seen at any company, I don't think cabotage is protecting anyone. They are just happy to be in America.

 

[Diesel]

And I don't know you from Adam. So why is it OK for you to email me a copy of the memo?

Actually Dispatchr we both know who each other is. We've sent pm's and we have mutual friends upstairs. You know who I am and i know who you are. No big deal.

Sarka-
We all know the circumstances behind "Chip off the old block"'s wall incident. The reason why he punched is because he didn't see the big picture when his bosses and the other pilot did. It's that, "these are my pilots" attitude scheduling has.

Family Guy-
So we've shot down all your arguments and now you're main argument is that unions are in decline and we should become non union? Let's do apples to apples. Show me a list of airlines that have gone from union to non-union. Leaving one union to go to another or start another doesn't count. They are still remaining in some sort of union. There isn't any.

Actually the reverse is true. A lot more aviation companies are becoming union than not. You can blame the Jimmy Hoffa mentality all day long but if we were with ALPA would your view of us change? How about this why don't some of the managers actually take responsibility up there and do their job. Instead of taking the easy way out and blaming the union.

As for the pilot that called in fatigued 15 minutes before the flight. I say bravo. I don't even know the background info but I don't have to. That fact that he was willing to stand up and say I AM NOT SAFE TO FLY should be applauded. Of course you don't really have any idea about all the "extras" we have to do on the road to keep the plane turning.

Oh by the way 70 extended days for some guys are proven by the DATA the company is CONTRACTUALLY REQUIRED to give to the union. It is used to make sure that FAIR AND EQUATABLE distribution of flying. An extended day is different than an aftermidnight. It's noted in the COMPANY SUPPLIED DATA.

Hawkered-
Cut and paste me the link where the union is saying the falcon fleet was doomed from the start. I think that you're one of the guys that enjoy the extending and don't see the big picture.

 

[GVFlyer]

You have it good compared to us, but you are definately lowering the bar for G drivers around the country.

This simply isn't true. Look at any of the salary surveys and you will see that captains at NJI can make $135K; average GIV/GV captain pay is $125K.

GV






~

 

[dsptchrnja]

Management only increases pay and benes when they are forced to. They are profit maximizers. They are monolithic. It's nothing personal... it's business.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. Don't even know why you would even try to pass this argument off to people who know better. My pay (non-bargaining employee) more than doubled in less than 6 years with the company - all at the company's choosing.

During the same time frame your union hasn't been able to negotiate any pay raises for it's bargaining employees. The company even tried to raise FO pay outside of negotiations but the union was against it. Again, your union is the problem, not the solution.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Actually Dispatchr we both know who each other is. We've sent pm's and we have mutual friends upstairs. You know who I am and i know who you are. No big deal.

Must have me confused with someone else (NJAdispatcher perhaps?), and I just checked my PM history, never sent one, never received one from you.

 

[Some Dude]

You guys kill me. Defending anyone at the company who took gifts to change their schedules is wrong. Those pilots SHOULD HAVE BEEN TERMINATED ALONG WITH THE SCHEDULERS. Can anyone define GO TO TEAM? Sounds really safe having guys doing 17 hour duty days because they are on the GO TO TEAM. Can't wait to read that accident report and see the Billion dolllar lawsuit that will follow. This company has a history of ethics problem.