NetJets Strike Passes By 93%

[flyfysh]

Diesel-Hey FaCfriend. Why do you care. You don't need to know what's going on. This is our fight. You have no say in what goes on period.

Do you work the line? Nope so you have no idea what is going on.

You probably have access to our union website and are doing the "everybody is saying" or "my friend told me" that way you don't lose credibility.

It doesn't concern you so shut the F up.

I beg to differ with you sir, any employee of this company has a dog in this fight whether you care to admit it or not. Something else you may have a hard time understanding is that it takes more than just the pilots to make this company run and do so safely and efficiently. I mean no disrespect because I honestly do believe that we have the very best pilots in the industry. (contrary to how some of them are representing themselves on this site)
I have been reading this site for quite some time and I balk at how people have lowered themselves to talk about their peers AND the company that still supplies them a paycheck. There is a positive side to this and that is that I am out in the field enough to know that it really is just a handful of you that continue to stir the pot.

 

[CMHTroll]

Craw back under your rock

Dispatcher you are wrong again. The schedulers did accept gifts. You didn't read the memo. I know you were NOT part of the investigation. YOU ARE CLUELESS SO DON'T TRY TO DEFLECT THE FACTS. DON'T TRY TO ACT LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT WAS REVEALED. YOU WERE NOT THERE. THE ACTIONS WERE ENDORSED BY THE COMPANY, THAT IS WAY SOME PILOTS ARE STILL GETTING 40 TO 70 EXTENDED DAYS A YEAR. Now explain to me what the f the "Go to Team" is. You act like you know so much but you do not.

Looks like it is another mystery memo. Dispatcher does have a point. Although he should not post company information,his information does prove the point. And everyone remembers reading that memoon the Crew-ops web site. Now, if you have a super secret special memo that says something different... well what made you so special?

Another baseless accusation. If you have facts, use them with the ethics number. If you don't go and craw back in your hole or under your union rock.

 

[Some Dude]

Man you guys think you know everything because you work in CMH. You guys were NOT involved in the investigation. Enough said.

 

[Hawkered]

Family Guy,

The real issue here is that these numbskulls all think its the '20s and they can go 'round acting like Hoffa. Their actions and threats to those of us that do extend are illegal. I know in the X, if we didn't extend, there would be enormous detriment to the company which would screw us all out of a raise anyway.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Dispatcher, Wrong again, you were NOT part of the investigation. You did NOT receive the MEMO I am referring to. I WILL NOT POST THE MEMO. You sir could be terminated for posting a company memo on this site. I have signed a nondisclousure policy therefore I will NOT disclose any company info. Are you that stupid to think that was the only memo? Hello? persons involved in the investigation received more info than the casino employees. Duh! I said they received gifts and your memo quotes the company as stating that receiving gifts is okay. Nice morals. Your memo doesn't mention the value of the gifts or how many times the gifts were accepted. It's a nice spin by the company.

So, I won't be ordering "crow" for my crew food. Next time you want to discuss something you know nothing about I suggest you don't. You lose every time.

I can't even begin to sort through the hypocrisy.

1. I never claimed to be part of the investigation.

2. You asked if I got the memo and obviously I did. Now it's not the one you were referring to. How convenient. If there is a memo out there just for those in the investigation then why did you ask if I had it?

3. Obviously there is no non-disclosure policy for company distributed memos. But, since you have such a problem with it, and I don't trust you anyway, I have paraphrased the memo so we can get on with the real issue.

4. So what is the real issue here anyway? I mean, this happened years ago, what exactly is your point in bringing all this up on a public forum anyway? The dust had already cleared. Please don't tell me that you think you know better than the independent investigators? If you disagree with the decision then just say so and move on - but don't go around years later and continue to accuse people who have been cleared of wrongdoing. You are making a fool of yourself.

5. On one side of your mouth you guys complain that the company isn't a family anymore and out the other you complain that someone is getting gifts. Guess what? In my family we give appropriate gifts to each other to show we appreciate one another. There is no fear of a grievence being filed if I accept it. You need to come back to reality if you think you can have it both ways.

 

[dsptchrnja]

edit- Dispatchr I copied your post and i thought even doing that was asking for trouble.

Jesus man you posted a company memo on a Public website? WTF are you thinking man.

And I don't know you from Adam. So why is it OK for you to email me a copy of the memo?

 

[flyfysh]

Man you guys think you know everything because you work in CMH. You guys were NOT involved in the investigation. Enough said.

My choosing to reply to a thread does not imply that I live in CMH, that is pretty narrow-minded. (For the record, you are incorrect) You assume so because I did not agree with the disparaging remarks that have been posted on this site. You are correct, I was not a part of the investigation but heard about it just as everyone else did. Do I agree with how it was handled, at this point that is neither here nor there, we need to stay focused on getting to a resolution of the issues at hand. Quite honestly, we are like dogs chasing our tails by rehashing the past and it is getting us nowhere. Enough said.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Hawkered what part of the COMPANY published the list do you NOT understand?

Hawkered, the list was started because the company must provide an equitable amount of flying for all pilots. We need to know who volunteered and who received extended days so the whole group can see if the company showed any favortism in it's scheduling practice. I have a right to learn who worked all their "off days" and didn't work their schedules days. This is to TRY to prevent the "A Team" abuse that happened before. Sorry but we still have some suck a$$es here that would do anything to lick the ball sweat from a company manager.

Two completely different explanations in just 3 hours and 27 minutes..... must be some kind of record.

So make up your mind DUDE. Are you going to blame the Company for publishing the list or admit that it was at the request of the union?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Yes Virgina, stupidity does run rampent in the glass house.

Anyone else see the irony in this statement?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Dude are you kidding me? You're saying that some pencil pusher used all his investigative skills and says there is no A team. Then we get a memo there is a "go to team".

You must see it everyday. You dispatch why don't you just look at the names you are filing for. Notice how a lot of the cherry trips get picked up by certain captains?

I can't remember any of these "number crunchers" talking to any of the pilots or any of the union officials. They must not have wanted to dig toooo deep.

Are you suggesting that the "number crunchers" should have talked to the same union that is twisting arms and threatening its own members to not take overtime?

Yeah, that sounds like a credible source of information.

Simple truth is that the facts dont lie. If these number crunchers had access to all the crew schedules and overtime records then that is all that is needed to determine if favoritism was present. Its either in the data or its not.

If you had a problem with the findings of these number crunchers then why didnt you call the ethics hotline 2 years ago? Why raise the issue on an internet board? Maybe because you know there is NO VALIDITY to your claims?

 

[FamilyGuy]

I'm sure, however, that if the Dispatchers and/or Schedulers of NJA would like representation in future cases that Local 1108 could provide Union signing cards that would enable you to do so.

It's simply a choice that only you can make. 1108 can't do it for you and would also have no power to do anything unless you do so.

Oh please! CAN I HAVE MY ARMS TWISTED TOO? CAN I BE THREATENED BY MY COWORKERS FOR WORKING OVERTIME? WHERE DO I SIGN UP?

 

[FamilyGuy]

I will tell you this: If it were up to me, you better believe I would have a "Go to" team at this company. Just recently a crew denied an International trip because they didn't know how to use the HF radios. Now, when Mr. Big$ makes a MIA-TKPK reservation who do you think I'm going to schedule? Capt. Clueless or Capt. Dependable? Union poltics aside, its just a no-brainer.

My personal favorite was the pilot who called in fatigued 15 minutes before an owner flight, even though he was coming off 15 hours of rest and no flights the previous day.

Yes, with behavior like that, its understandable that the schedulers will quickly learn who is a reliable professional and who is not...

 

[FamilyGuy]

Ahhh. But the fact is that the majority of aviation employees REMAIN unionized.. even today. The %'s in aviation are greatly UNcharacteristic of %'s in U.S. Labor abroad.

Tell that to the aviation mechanics out there. The airlines have increased the percentage of maintenance outsourced from 37% in 1996 to 51% this year....

Simple facts are obvious....union representation of private sector employees has dropped to just 7.9% of all employees....here's the Bureau of Labor statistics official numbers:


Year Private Sector Unionization
1948................34.7%
1949................34.9%
1950................34.6%
1951................34.7%
1952................35.2%
1953................35.7%
1954................35.6%
1955................35.1%
1956................34.7%
1957................34.7%
1958................33.9%
1959................32.3%
1960................31.9%
1961................31.9%
1962................31.6%
1963................31.2%
1964................31.0%
1965................30.8%
1966................30.3%
1967................30.5%
1968................29.9%
1969................29.0%
1970................29.1%
1971................28.2%
1972................27.3%
1973................26.6%
1974................26.2%
1975................26.3%
1976................25.1%
1977................23.6%
1978................22.5%
1979................22.0%
1980................20.6%
1981................19.9%
1982................19.0%
1983................17.8%
1984................15.5%
1985................14.6%
1986................14.0%
1987................13.4%
1988................12.9%
1989................12.4%
1990................12.1%
1991................11.9%
1992................11.5%
1993................11.2%
1994................10.9%
1995................10.4%
1996................10.2%
1997..................9.7%
1998..................9.5%
1999..................9.4%
2000..................9.0%
2001..................9.0%
2002..................8.6%
2003..................8.2%
2004..................7.9%

Looks like a clear trend.

Face it....you guys are hooked onto a train that's heading over a cliff....

Now the only question that remains is whether you're going to remain a lemming or exercise that brain God gave you and unhook yourself from that train.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Best reason to turn down the trip: I can't go because I haven't had a passport for 2 1/2 month cause Grandpa won't authorise expediting it cause that costs extra money and this ain't EJI !

Yeah, that makes sense....why dont you just say "I didnt exercise any forethought and get my passport renewed 6 months before it expired."

If you can get a physical ontime then you can get a passport ontime.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Family Guy,

The real issue here is that these numbskulls all think its the '20s and they can go 'round acting like Hoffa. Their actions and threats to those of us that do extend are illegal. I know in the X, if we didn't extend, there would be enormous detriment to the company which would screw us all out of a raise anyway.

Ed - You're exactly right. The actions of a few are reprehensible and do nothing but drag down the reputation of everyone associated with the group.

This thuggery, IMO, is why most Americans have turned away from unions in the private sector.

I personally believe that if the unions are going to turn around their slide into oblivion they will have to start acting like PROFESSIONALS. If they want respect then they have to acknowledge the fact that not every issue is worth fighting and YES, there is a small percentage of the workforce that are slugs and should be removed from the organization. I would have a lot more respect for unions if they would police their own organizations and drum out the people who arent carrying their weight rather than trying to protect every single person like some socialist society.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Unions

Yet you like to point out that the latest wage offer to the UNION would make Teamster Pilots the best compensated in the FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY.

Now the decline in union membership in private sector has nothing to do with the wishes of the workers. It has to do with the scheming of managements to deprive workers of representation.

It has to do with the economics which saw declines in the industries where unions had long ago established. Outsourcing, globalization, etc.. When these industries declined workers were displaced. New Industries, service industries, technology industries grew but are very young and the time to grow unions is long.

But just look at the extraordinary steps some managements will go to in order to deprive workers representation. Walmart closed stores after a union was formed.

The tactics NJ management employs is no surprise and is right out of the Union Busters playbook. Including the no money for pay raise BS. Too bad they couldn't even put that song to new music at least.

No money when there is low demand, no money when demand is high....

talk to the hand and raise management fees. Could not care less about any other part of the books.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I know in the X, if we didn't extend, there would be enormous detriment to the company which would screw us all out of a raise anyway.

Exactly the best reason why I will not extend until there is a new CBA.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Unions

Yet you like to point out that the latest wage offer to the UNION would make Teamster Pilots the best compensated in the FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY.....

....The tactics NJ management employs is no surprise and is right out of the Union Busters playbook. Including the no money for pay raise BS. Too bad they couldn't even put that song to new music at least.

No money when there is low demand, no money when demand is high....

talk to the hand and raise management fees. Could not care less about any other part of the books.

Who's claiming NO money? How could the company offer you higher wages than FlexJet, Flight Options, and Citation Shares if they were claiming no money?

Now the decline in union membership in private sector has nothing to do with the wishes of the workers. It has to do with the scheming of managements to deprive workers of representation.

It has to do with the economics which saw declines in the industries where unions had long ago established. Outsourcing, globalization, etc.. When these industries declined workers were displaced. New Industries, service industries, technology industries grew but are very young and the time to grow unions is long.

Unions have been LOSING for 60 years! Is it really scheming by management or a tired, worn-out message that's no longer applicable?

Either the unions have a compelling message or they do not. It looks like Americans are voting with their feet and leaving in droves.

Or are you telling me that unions have their head stuck in the sand and cant recognize fundamental shifts in demographics and employment trends and adapt their message accordingly? Which is it?

But just look at the extraordinary steps some managements will go to in order to deprive workers representation. Walmart closed stores after a union was formed.

Not that it matters for this forum, but Walmart has not closed any stores after a union formed. I think you are refering to the group of 10 butchers who voted to unionize their positions in one Texas store. Walmart two weeks later switched nationwide to prepackaged meats and reassigned all butchers to other departments. You can read more about it here:

"In the United States, only one group of Wal-Mart employees has successfully organized. In February 2000 ten meatcutters in Jacksonville, Texas, voted 7 to 3 to unionize their tiny bargaining unit. Two weeks later, Wal-Mart abruptly eliminated their jobs by switching to prepackaged meat and assigning the butchers to other departments, effectively abolishing the only union shop on its North American premises. After more than three years, in June 2003, a federal labor judge ruled this move illegal and ordered Wal-Mart to restore the department and recognize the butchers' bargaining unit. Wal-Mart has appealed that decision."

 

[Sarka]

I've tried to keep out of this, but there is some really bogus stuff being put out here and I cannot hold my tongue anymore. I'm not getting into the Union/non-union argument, but the BS here needs to stop.

1. Was it not workplace violence when one of our schedulers, while being escorted off the property, put his fist through a wall in rage?

Do you even know the circumstances behind this?

I see many of you bring this story up and it is really obvious that you have heard it second or third hand because if you knew the whole story or were there when it happened (I was), I think you would be defending him instead of crucifying him.

I won't make any comments about the video or pilot getting in trouble over it because 1) I have never seen it, 2) I don't know the whole story, 3) I was not involved, and 4) It's none of MY business.

CMHtroll
If they are so concerned with safety why didn't they fire Chips Ahoy? Hmmmm I wonder.

1. He did not threaten or try to harm anyone.
2. He WAS disciplined appropriately.
3. He had a right to be upset (if you knew the whole story, you'd probably agree).

Lastly, it's just poor taste naming the guy on a public forum. I'm sure you guys wouldn't like it very much if someone named one of you everytime you screwed something up or made a mistake. Have some class.

So him punching a hole in the wall was what? The wall jumped out infront of him and he was protecting himself.

Frustration. I'm sure many of you have felt that before. He made a mistake. But, he wasn't trying to harm anyone or threaten anyone. Give it a rest.

You must see it everyday. You dispatch why don't you just look at the names you are filing for. Notice how a lot of the cherry trips get picked up by certain captains?

You're kidding, right? Do you really think we have time to go through the entire schedule and cherry-pick certain trips for certain pilots? I cordially invite you to come up to the Flight Center and sit by me some time. We don't have the time to sit here and cherry-pick trips. We have to constantly put the ever-changing jigsaw puzzle together as others keep stealing or changing our pieces.

I won't say that it has NEVER happened, but I can guarantee it ain't often.

Dispatcher you are clueless. You DID NOT GET THE MEMO FROM BOISTURE? I did get the memo from BOISTURE STATING THERE IS A GO TO TEAM AND THE FACT THAT THE SCHEDULERS DID ACCEPT GIFTS. You know nothing. I WAS PART OF THE INVESTIGATION AND I WAS ASKED BY THE COMPANY TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION. Boisture ADMITTED THERE WAS FAVORTISM. You don't know CRAP because you WERE NOT THERE. You are WRONG once AGAIN. Also if you attended a company recurrent you would hear Boisture himself state their is a GO TO TEAM AT NJA. So shut the f up about crap you don't know anything about.

Load of crap.

The investigation cleared wrongdoing by any schedulers of the accusations made.

What he said.

The schedulers did accept gifts.

Please tell us what gifts they accepted. Macadamia nuts? A bottle of booze, maybe? Left-over crew food? What were the "extravegant" gifts?

THAT IS WAY SOME PILOTS ARE STILL GETTING 40 TO 70 EXTENDED DAYS A YEAR.

Still? That is interesting. Considering that Scheduler's can only extend you per the contract and that any other type of extention or request for extended days must go through an entirely different department. How is it that the "A Team" are still getting all those extra days from the "corrupt" schedulers?

Did you ever think that maybe the guys getting the extra days are the ones that know the contract best and how to "work the system" to get those infamous 12:01, after-midnight extended days? Sounds like a problem with your brother pilots and not the schedulers.

The facts are (as dsptchrNJA pointed out):

1. None of the schedulers violated any company rule. No scheduler was penalized and all returned to their job.

2. It was concluded that schedulers did no wrong in using volunteers crewmembers for covering ASAP trips. No evidence was shown that indicated schedulers treated crewmembers better as a result of recieving small gifts.

I said they received gifts and your memo quotes the company as stating that receiving gifts is okay. Nice morals. Your memo doesn't mention the value of the gifts or how many times the gifts were accepted.

Some Dude, have you EVER received ANYTHING from ANY of the owners you have ever flown? Have you ever received anything from any of the FBO's? Have you gotten ANY "perks" from the hotels you've stayed in? Have you EVER gotten ANY "gifts" from someone you have been associated with while working for NetJets?

I bet the value and number of "gifts" you (and/or many other groups in this company) have received far outnumber and are of greater value than anything we (schedulers) have ever seen. Does that make you guilty of showing favoritism to any of those people for accepting those? Certainly not. Does it mean you are corrupt? No.

Talk about nice morals. Before making accusations and insinuations such as yours, maybe you should think about how easily your reputation could get tarnished by others that have an agenda or don't have all the facts.

Yeah no kidding. The hypocrisy is startling to say the least. A pilot gets wrongfully terminated for blasting a DVD on private property and posting it on a private, unionized message board. I guess to be in the good graces of the Netjets nuthuggers one must punch a hole in the wall at work or cut and paste private company memorandums on a public forum.

I know you feel that this pilot was done wrong (which he may have been - I don't know), but to drag someone elses rep through the dirt because of it is complete bull. How's it go...two wrongs don't make a right. You guys are creating more anamosity (from us screen-readers) by doing so. We used to be on the same team.

I beg to differ with you sir, any employee of this company has a dog in this fight whether you care to admit it or not. Something else you may have a hard time understanding is that it takes more than just the pilots to make this company run and do so safely and efficiently. I mean no disrespect because I honestly do believe that we have the very best pilots in the industry. (contrary to how some of them are representing themselves on this site)

The guy makes some very good points and we do have some of the best people (pilots and non-pilots) in the biz. Hope we all can get along again some time soon.

Man you guys think you know everything because you work in CMH. You guys were NOT involved in the investigation. Enough said.

I may not have been directly involved, but I was pretty darn close to it. Like you guys defending your brothers, I'll defend mine, too.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Oh please! CAN I HAVE MY ARMS TWISTED TOO? CAN I BE THREATENED BY MY COWORKERS FOR WORKING OVERTIME? WHERE DO I SIGN UP?

I don't believe anyone has been threatened for pimping extended days. Many have been urged to not fly overtime by their peers through verbal communication... you know... just talking. Simply looking at the names on Company provides Duty Summary lists and talking to those pilots on the road does not constitute a threat.

As to your response... I was pointing out in my original post that no one from 1108 represented the scheduler or dispatcher in question when they were repremanded because that employee group is not currently represented by a Union.

The comment I was responding to sounded like a jab at 1108 for not representing tha employee.

There are pros and cons to being in a Union. I personally find that there are more pros to having a Union at a company with this style on management.

Management can either treat the Union as an asset or a liability. A company and a Union working together is a powerful force; a powerful force that has been untapped at NJA.