NetJets seniority

[dsptchrnja]

Again, for those of us who have been here for longer than the average we used to do this. Where did it get us? Did anything change?

Frankly yes. Many of the changes you see on your flight plan over the years are from feedback from crews. And just recently I was CC'd on an email forwarded to the Chief Pilot from a crew on the road making a suggestion. I don't recall the exact nature of the suggestion I just remember reading the last line that said something like "I think this is a good suggestion, don't see why it can't be implemented." No doubt some of your feedback has fallen on deaf ears over the years, some of my suggestions have too. But people here do care even if they don't do well at communicating that to you.

We do the absolute bare minimum. We just dont care.

I don't believe you. You do care. People who don't care don't bother to discuss this stuff. I think all the pilots care, they are just discouraged.

Over the years, the pilots have rewarded scheduling, owner services and dispatch for their mistakes. We have taught these groups to let their gaurds down because, we, the pilots would catch their mistakes and fix things in the end.... We simply dont do your jobs anymore.... All the waste and problems with NJA is primarily these three groups.

Personally I resent this statement and it is dis-heartening to the many who have worked hard and take pride in what they do. Please learn to respect the departments and people that serve you. Condemning them/us will never help.

 

[Dixon Cider]

Glad to see you have the emotional maturity and professionalism required to carry on an adult conversation.

I'd recommend that you avail yourself of some of the other benefits the company provides you - namely EAP....they can help you with your anger management issues.

Yaaaawwwnnnnn. EAP couldn't help me so I beat the sh!t out of the counselor. I have the maturity and professionalism. Like I said, you bring it on yourself. I'm done with you.

Some Dude, I'm buying the first round. You in??

 

[Fracster]

You made changes to our flight plan?????? WTF does changes to the flight plan have anything to do with efficiency. You moved a few blocks around and added a few blocks. We still get weather thats 4 hours old so we end up going inside and printing up the latest weather and latest notams. And out of 2000+ pilots you remember 1 cc'ed email about a suggestion? 2000 pilots and 1 suggestion taken seriously.

Dispatch, let me add one other thing. You guys are not the problem. Yes, it aggravates me when things are wrong with the numbers and that can cause us problems but thats why we double check everything. I would love to get my flight plan, plug in the numbers and forget about it but this isnt 121 so its never going to happen. You guys dont cost the company money and owners like scheduling and owners services.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Fracster, nevermind, not worth it, tired of the confrontational volleys.

BTW, the reason you get 4 hour old wx is because we normally release you 4 hours before your flight - hope this helps.

 

[GerryG]

Gentlemen,
I am a flight options pilot and almost never post on this site, although I often read. I am also more than sympathetic to your Union and your cause. That being said I finally have to ask. Why do you engage with the dispatchers and other inferior people who post on this site? When I first got out of college I had a job, for a short time in a hospital. One of the things I learned from that experience is that people always resent those they are tasked to support. In the case of the hospital the nurses, orderlies and secretaries resented the doctors because they got to practice medicine and make the final decisions. In our case the dispatchers, schedulers, owner service reps. and other office functionaries, resent the pilots because we get to fly and make the final decisions. The only difference is the doctors would never have discussed their challenges with the little people beneath them, because to do so would have invited those people to consider themselves equal. Ask yourselves, how long did these people go to school to be qualified to do their jobs? How many years did they sacrifice to get to where they are? How many people will die if they make mistakes. The bottom line is these people either lacked the smarts or the perseverance required to get to where you are. Sure they are good at sorting through minutia and pushing papers across a desk but they really don't know much about aviation and have little consception of what our jobs are really like. So their opinions don't count for much, why respond to them? You flatter them when you choose to speak to them. That's why they bait you here.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Gentlemen,
I am a flight options pilot and almost never post on this site, although I often read. I am also more than sympathetic to your Union and your cause. That being said I finally have to ask. Why do you engage with the dispatchers and other inferior people who post on this site? When I first got out of college I had a job, for a short time in a hospital. One of the things I learned from that experience is that people always resent those they are tasked to support. In the case of the hospital the nurses, orderlies and secretaries resented the doctors because they got to practice medicine and make the final decisions. In our case the dispatchers, schedulers, owner service reps. and other office functionaries, resent the pilots because we get to fly and make the final decisions. The only difference is the doctors would never have discussed their challenges with the little people beneath them, because to do so would have invited those people to consider themselves equal. Ask yourselves, how long did these people go to school to be qualified to do their jobs? How many years did they sacrifice to get to where they are? How many people will die if they make mistakes. The bottom line is these people either lacked the smarts or the perseverance required to get to where you are. Sure they are good at sorting through minutia and pushing papers across a desk but they really don't know much about aviation and have little consception of what our jobs are really like. So their opinions don't count for much, why respond to them? You flatter them when you choose to speak to them. That's why they bait you here.

Takes big kahoonas to anonomously put people down, huh Gerry?

At the risk of flattering you for responding to your condescending post I will just point out some errors in your line of thought. For all I know you are likely not an aviation professional but a flamer who gets his kicks out of upsetting or putting down people.

At any rate, can you give an example of a single dispatcher or NJA employee who generally resent the pilots they serve and support that with evidence...? BTW if all you have is what you come up with on this board, you lose. If I am not aware of one, I kind of doubt you're going to do too well on this.

I have a 4 year BS degree in Management of Technical Aviation Operations. I have another 4 years in the military and went to several schools there. And you?

Oh, and I can fly any time I want, I'm also a pilot and got my license at ERAU in DAB. It was there that I decided to be a dispatcher and attended the oldest and most recognized dispatch shcool in the world in FLL.

Do you know how many dispatchers are now flying the line at NJA?

I could go on about how dispatcher's mistakes could cost lives but as you say I don't know anything about aviation, am inferior to you, and lack the smarts to get where you are, so who cares what I think.

Thanks for the post... finally needed a good laugh on this thread.

 

[flyfysh]

Here is a cookie for doing what we pilots are hired to do. Oh and BTW, you also get a paycheck for this as well.
Are you the President of your own fan club too?
There are some of us who take pride in what we do and do not feel the need to beat our own drum.

 

[x402]

Takes big kahoonas to anonomously put people down, huh Gerry?

At the risk of flattering you for responding to your condescending post I will just point out some errors in your line of thought. For all I know you are likely not an aviation professional but a flamer who gets his kicks out of upsetting or putting down people.

At any rate, can you give an example of a single dispatcher or NJA employee who generally resent the pilots they serve and support that with evidence...? BTW if all you have is what you come up with on this board, you lose. If I am not aware of one, I kind of doubt you're going to do too well on this.

I have a 4 year BS degree in Management of Technical Aviation Operations. I have another 4 years in the military and went to several schools there. And you?

Oh, and I can fly any time I want, I'm also a pilot and got my license at ERAU in DAB. It was there that I decided to be a dispatcher and attended the oldest and most recognized dispatch shcool in the world in FLL.

Do you know how many dispatchers are now flying the line at NJA?

I could go on about how dispatcher's mistakes could cost lives but as you say I don't know anything about aviation, am inferior to you, and lack the smarts to get where you are, so who cares what I think.

Thanks for the post... finally needed a good laugh on this thread.

Our dispatchers are a part of the complete picture of what goes on day to day a Netjets. Will everyone be correct 100% of the time? NEVER.Are we as pilots responsible to review EVERYTHING before we depart. Yes.
When I stop checking details, I will go back to driving trucks.
It's a team effort and the Netjets dispatchers allow us to do 5-7 legs safely.
Perfection is a target we all strive for, reality makes us all work together to survive.

 

[Sarka]

Gentlemen,
I am a flight options pilot and almost never post on this site, although I often read. I am also more than sympathetic to your Union and your cause. That being said I finally have to ask. Why do you engage with the dispatchers and other inferior people who post on this site? When I first got out of college I had a job, for a short time in a hospital. One of the things I learned from that experience is that people always resent those they are tasked to support. In the case of the hospital the nurses, orderlies and secretaries resented the doctors because they got to practice medicine and make the final decisions. In our case the dispatchers, schedulers, owner service reps. and other office functionaries, resent the pilots because we get to fly and make the final decisions. The only difference is the doctors would never have discussed their challenges with the little people beneath them, because to do so would have invited those people to consider themselves equal. Ask yourselves, how long did these people go to school to be qualified to do their jobs? How many years did they sacrifice to get to where they are? How many people will die if they make mistakes. The bottom line is these people either lacked the smarts or the perseverance required to get to where you are. Sure they are good at sorting through minutia and pushing papers across a desk but they really don't know much about aviation and have little consception of what our jobs are really like. So their opinions don't count for much, why respond to them? You flatter them when you choose to speak to them. That's why they bait you here.

Personally, I think this post should be in the NetJets In-House Fighting Championship thread except for the fact that you are not a NetJets employee (thank God!).

Speaking for myself only, I hold absolutely no resentment towards our pilots although I find you to be quite full of yourself. For the most part, I have found the vast majority of our pilots to be the ultimate professionals.

I also find that most of the people I work with in CMH are also highly professional. Unfortunatley, we all have our 10%. Gerry, you would definately fall into that 10%.

Our dispatchers are a part of the complete picture of what goes on day to day a Netjets. Will everyone be correct 100% of the time? NEVER.Are we as pilots responsible to review EVERYTHING before we depart. Yes.
When I stop checking details, I will go back to driving trucks.
It's a team effort and the Netjets dispatchers allow us to do 5-7 legs safely.
Perfection is a target we all strive for, reality makes us all work together to survive.

Well said x402. I couldn't agree more. Obviously, you are part of the 90%.

 

[Diesel]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

The dispatchers are filing thousands of flightplans, changes, everything that goes on. They are doing everything from a falcon to a 400xp and supposed to remember everything for each and every plane.

Dispatchers are set up to fail. It's amazing they can keep 99 percent of the balls in the air. They need to file only one type of plane and hire more dispatchers.

Unfortunatly the company does not see how much they are needed but the pilots do.

 

[dsptchrnja]

on that note... found out yesterday we are hiring 4-6 new dispatchers. Still looking for qualified applicants.

 

[Semore Butts]

Glad to hear it

Glad to hear we are getting some more dispatchers.

I know you all work hard, and wether some would believe it or not, it's a team effort.

 

[Hawkered]

Family Guy

Your accounting of the core-fleet disposal is one that concerns me greatly. I know that you have to "hail to the chief", but clearly it is time for somebody to speak up before the emperor shows up without any clothes.

We have spoken before about the validity of higher utilisation of all of the aircraft types with the Marquis Jet Partners option effectively dividing possession of the aircraft into 1/32, or between any one of 32 parties. This is a far cry from the original "Quarter Share" marketing of our fractional founder.

Leveraged aviation purchases at airlines don't work, because the return on investment does not make the interest payment attractive over either the short or long term. Thats why we now have two completely "paper" airlines in this country consiting of JetBlue and Airtran. They have no real assets except the cash on hand to show that they can...go out and lease more aircraft. Much like Budget did just before they went bankrupt in the '80s..but that's another story.

Netjets is such a dynamically different operation than a business model that serves the same two dozen city pairs. With over 5,000 airports domestically in the United States alone, you have really screwed up any chance of recovering flights after an interruption in reliability. A Citation X broken down in Butte, Montana is going to sit there for three days if it breaks on a Friday evening. This problem is not the same as an A-320 in Long Beach or JFK for JetBlue being cared for by in-house line maintenance with a factory rep' looking over their shoulders.

What you have failed to realize is that by simply showing a reduction in a long-term lien against a core fleet aircraft, or for that matter, one that is owned but fully depreciated, you have cost us that expense multiplied by ten or fifteen flights over the weekend that our broken down Citation X in Butte could not cover. The short term costs have been astronomical.

I don't know if you guys did this to lower the staffing required for Part 91K, to drag out negotiations, or because you simply didn't know any better!

Leadership 101: When you screw up, admit it, ask for forgiveness and move on!!

Dixon Cider

I feel your pain man, but you're coming off as a real whack job, not somebody whose professional respect is based upon dignified behavior.

 

[Dixon Cider]

Dixon Cider

I feel your pain man, but you're coming off as a real whack job, not somebody whose professional respect is based upon dignified behavior.

Look man, I tried to be civil, calm, cool, and collected. I am a professional in the cockpit as much as anyone. However, every man has limits. If it weren't for the anonymity, I wouldn't have given in so easily. That being said, I have no tolerance for gross stupidity from FG. His double talk of how he thinks pilots are great in one breath and in the next he talks about how the pilots are sh!tting on him, and we do our job poorly based on his opinions. Where is the professionalism on his part?

No whack job on my part, just fed up. Take care.

 

[Hawkered]

You too, take care. We don't need the thread degenerating anymore than it has. Its time to put this behind us and....


Git 'er Done!!!!