NetJets seniority

[Hogprint]

Ultra Gump observed:

Let's see, 36 posts in this thread so far (including this one), and you have 8 of them. Diesel has 3. Who's spending "time on these boards complaining and whining?"

I wonder if the company moles get paid to post here while at work? They sure seem busy on this board for overworked casino folk....

 

[Fracster]

The mistakes that scheduling, owner services and dispatch make are consistent. Nothing has changed, PERIOD.

Have some people been fired? I dont know. Why were they let go? Probably becuase they thought ouside the box or they didnt buy in to the fifedoms that make up much of Bridgeway.

We can all show you everyday where the mistakes are. Ferrying to a location with no trip just to ferry back out later that day. Oh, thats right, I dont have the big picture. If we were backing up a trip then where was the other aircraft. Having someone work a 14 hour day, 10 hours turn to work another 8 to 10 hours to be shut down to wake up 10 hours later just after midnight. Where is the logic there.
Having owner services tell my pax that we would be there 2 hours earlier than we were legaly able to show. The company knew what was going on the night before. Owner services knew the night before as well. And what do we do, tell the pax in detail how STUPID and INCOMPETENT dispatch and owner services are. I encourage each owner to call the company and I provide them with the names of the people who schedule and dispatch their flight.



Like I said before, dispatch is the best of the bunch but still has many problems.

Scheduling and owner services are a complete joke. Its not even a question or argument. Its fact.

Now Moisture, Mcghoo and Shamtulli want the pilots opinion of how we can make owners experience better and more efficient? Fook them, we have been trying to solve their inadequacies for years and never taken seriously. Let the company go down in flames, Ill bring the marshmellows.

 

[Majik]

If you want to be paid like a professional then you need to act like a professional. It really is a simple concept.

I used to agree and think it was a simple concept until we hit the 3 year mark. Santulli then convinced me that if we want to be paid like professionals, we need to use every tool in the drawer and fight tooth and nail. If that means showing him how hard it is to run a profitable business if the pilots follow the current contract to the letter, then that's what we will do.

Bottom line - We are in the process of removing the financial incentive these delays have given Santulli. We will take it as far as he wants to go. After the last contract he said, "You guys could have done a lot better!"
We won't make that same mistake twice.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I used to agree and think it was a simple concept until we hit the 3 year mark. Santulli then convinced me that if we want to be paid like professionals, we need to use every tool in the drawer and fight tooth and nail. If that means showing him how hard it is to run a profitable business if the pilots follow the current contract to the letter, then that's what we will do.

Bottom line - We are in the process of removing the financial incentive these delays have given Santulli. We will take it as far as he wants to go. After the last contract he said, "You guys could have done a lot better!"
We won't make that same mistake twice.

I've never understood this line of reasoning.

I want more money, so I'll perform poorly and do everything I can to screw up the system so that the company loses money....that will make them want to pay me more...

If NetJets is in negotiations with a maintenance vendor do you think they will want to pay more for their services if the vendor performs poorly? What about a caterer? or hotel? FBO? Rental car? Limo?

And as I've pointed out before, you cant lay the blame for the three years entirely at the feet of the company....both sides are to blame for the delay. Still waiting for someone to refute that.

 

[squonk]

Family guy:

I've never understood this line of reasoning.

I want more money, so I'll perform poorly and do everything I can to screw up the system so that the company loses money....that will make them want to pay me more...

Let me guess. You'd have us bust tail letting the company grow on our backs while the puppet masters gobble up market share in far flung places around the globe? Does this fit the MO for this company?

We tried this for the better part of eight years. It hasn't worked for the pilots. It DID however work for the company.

This is a new tack. Surely you understand that.

We call it negotiating 101.

 

[dsptchrnja]

This is a new tack. Surely you understand that.

We call it negotiating 101.

It's not like the union has been sitting lonely at the negotiating table waiting for the company to show. It's shows lack of faith in your union when you have to resort to measures outside the normal negotiating process and take matters into your own hands.

Let me ask you one question? Does your union sanction your negotiating 101 tactics? And I'm not talking about the "by the book" crap... does union management endorse increasing your DNIF rate and the rate at which you write up a/c?

 

[Starman]

The past 4 years of obstructionist tactics by the company has caused all sorts of stress to this pilot group. People under stress have far greater incidence of illness.

The airplanes are getting older. Netjets flies the hell out of them. They are going to break down at a higher rate as they get older.

Pretty basic stuff.

 

[dsptchrnja]

You'd have us bust tail letting the company grow on our backs while the puppet masters gobble up market share in far flung places around the globe?

Sounds like RTS had you in mind this week:

"At other times we may hear one group or another say, "We built this company and without us there would be no company." That line of reasoning is both true and short sighted at the same time. It is true because it absolutely applies to every department or function in the Company. It is short sighted because it fails to contemplate what would happen if any one function in the Company tried to perform even a single trip for our Owners without the support of other functions. Statements like these are divisive and counterproductive." Richard T. Santulli

 

[FamilyGuy]

The mistakes that scheduling, owner services and dispatch make are consistent. Nothing has changed, PERIOD.

Have some people been fired? I dont know. Why were they let go? Probably becuase they thought ouside the box or they didnt buy in to the fifedoms that make up much of Bridgeway.

We can all show you everyday where the mistakes are. Ferrying to a location with no trip just to ferry back out later that day. Oh, thats right, I dont have the big picture. If we were backing up a trip then where was the other aircraft. Having someone work a 14 hour day, 10 hours turn to work another 8 to 10 hours to be shut down to wake up 10 hours later just after midnight. Where is the logic there.
Having owner services tell my pax that we would be there 2 hours earlier than we were legaly able to show. The company knew what was going on the night before. Owner services knew the night before as well. And what do we do, tell the pax in detail how STUPID and INCOMPETENT dispatch and owner services are. I encourage each owner to call the company and I provide them with the names of the people who schedule and dispatch their flight.



Like I said before, dispatch is the best of the bunch but still has many problems.

Scheduling and owner services are a complete joke. Its not even a question or argument. Its fact.

Now Moisture, Mcghoo and Shamtulli want the pilots opinion of how we can make owners experience better and more efficient? Fook them, we have been trying to solve their inadequacies for years and never taken seriously. Let the company go down in flames, Ill bring the marshmellows.

Son, did someone take out that mass of brain tissue between your ears and replace it with concrete? Are you really this freakin stupid?

Let me tell you about a little concept called TEAMWORK. I know you probably think you're one of those sky gods who can do everything themselves, but an operation this size only works when everyone does their part. This company wont go anywhere without the pilots. It also wont go anywhere without maintenance, owner services, dispatch, scheduling (yes, even scheduling), travel, catering, crew services, and the managers. Everyone has to do their part or nothing will work. That's where the whole concept of teamwork comes into play. We are doing between 700-800 flights a day. When you do that many flights, odds are that some of the details will get messed up. We are sorry we arent perfect, but yes, we do make mistakes on occasion. Guess what? The pilots arent perfect either. They make mistakes all the time that we see everyday as well.

Now, if you want to stop being a team player and correcting those small oversights, or if you want to start selling us out to the owners, then guess what - that's a two way street as well. There's a lot of us here in the flight center that are sick and tired of getting beat up by you guys when we see you making mistakes at the same rate and engaging in shenanigans to the detriment of the owners.

For now the company has taken the high road and shielded the owners from your actions. They've asked us to not respond to you when we see these blatant actions. But if you want to start selling us out then there's a whole bunch of pissed off people in the flight center that would love nothing more than to drop a dime and tell the owner what you did to screw up their flight.

How do you think that owner perception of the pilots will fare when we tell the owner about the pilots that were released the day prior at 1600, had a 0600 show the next day for a 0700 owner flight, but couldnt find a way to make the 5 minute trip from the hotel to the airport? Even though each hotel room had three cab companies listed and they all operated at 0600? That crew called in at 0610 and asked for a limo ride to take them on that 5 minute ride to the airport and ended up delaying the owner 35 minutes. Now lets talk about waste.

Or how about the pilots that found their crew food and chowed down but left the owner catering at the FBO?

Or how about the pilot that wrote up an aircraft just before an owner flight for a tootsie roll stuck in a snack drawer door, thereby delaying the owner while we had to call mx to get it cleared?

We'll make sure the owners know about these little stunts you're pulling....and after they get pissed off and call Mr. Santulli to complain, you'll find yourself on the street and looking to your union to get you reinstated.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you're there in arbitration pleading to get your job back and the arbitrator is asking you about a tootsie roll. Or to see the look on your fellow pilots faces when they realize their hard earned dues are being spent on an arbitration case to get someone this foolish reinstated.

Or better yet, you think there's other options for you outside of NetJets? Let see how employable you are after you have to self disclose that you were fired from your previous job for any of these aforementioned shenanigans. Yeah, I'm sure the flight departments and airlines would be clamoring to hire someone with that on their record. The only person that would be lower on the employment ladder is that fool that got caught with the girl in the stairwell in ATL.

Wake up and realize that we are all in this together. Its all about teamwork. Yes, you perform a vital function, but so does everyone else in the company.

I think Fred Garvin made an excellent point in another thread tonight that bears repeating here:

You guys know it cuts both ways right? I can't tell you how many times I covered for a crew that over slept, didn't bust out a pilot or F/A that called in DNIF and then showed up at a party or game. With this kinda crap and all the other lovely stuff thats been aimed at the casino people, those days are over.

You wanna bitch about management or ownership, be my guest....you wanna attack fellow employees....your gonna get it back at ya ten fold.

 

[Corona]

1) Or how about the pilot that wrote up an aircraft just before an owner flight for a tootsie roll stuck in a snack drawer door, thereby delaying the owner while we had to call mx to get it cleared?


2) Or better yet, you think there's other options for you outside of NetJets? Let see how employable you are after you have to self disclose that you were fired from your previous job for any of these aforementioned shenanigans. The only person that would be lower on the employment ladder is that fool that got caught with the girl in the stairwell in ATL.
:

Family Dude; you clearly don't have much experience in aviation, or you wouldn't be posting this schlock.

1) This is a time-honored way of slowing down the line to put pressure on management. Ask an Alaska Airlines pilot how speedy he is at work these days, for example. Management breaks the pilots' balls; pilots run up the bills (legally, of course). Who breaks first? Depends who has the stronger hand. (Hint: NetJet pilots have the stronger hand.)

2) This REALLY demonstrates your ignorance. Netjet pilots are type-rated and highly experienced in late-model jets. If the company shuts down tomorrow, they are HIGHLY competitive for MANY jobs. If you think anyone in aviation cares about the soap opera bullcrap that is currently NetJets, you are a very small minnow in a very tiny pond. When pilots are needed, pilots are hired; regardless of their tawdry, slutty backgrounds.

Ooh, that reminds me; you guys are REALLY going to be hurting for pilots in the near future, aren't you?

BTW: We don't have to "self-disclose" anything, aside from the PRIA requirements. You do know what comprises a PRIA document, right? It is no sin to be fired from a pilot job. Depending on the company, some of us actually might consider it a sign of good character.

I am not a NetJets pilot, obviously, though I had once entertained the idea of working there. I am tired of seeing pilots throughout the industry being yanked, screwed and abused by management. Your pilots are probably the only well-organized group with a good upper hand. I am rooting for the NetJet pilots, and frankly hope they break your managements' balls.

C

 

[sikntired]

Right On Corona!

Thanks for a clean, concise "explanation" of this ugly situation.

Blue skies and Happy Trails to you!

I'm sikntireduvwaitin

 

[El Chupacabra]

Slow downs and delays...

Sounds like we are talking about Management negotiating tactics.

 

[Some Dude]

Did Family Guy post? Or did someone fart in here. It really smells like a load of crap.

 

[Fracster]

Family guy,

What a fookin' moron!

We do the job day in day out. We get the job done and done well. There is a tremedously small percentage of the pilots conducting the actions you have described. Conversely, there is a large percentage of schedulers, owner service people and dispatchers making huge mistakes and lying to the owners day in day out.

Go ahead moron, tell the owners anything you want. You already lie to them, whats a few more. We tell them the truth.

We will continue to inform and educate the owners as to the "shenanigans" you guys are up to. When we have long drives to the apt that scheduling doesnt account for, when were late due to weather but you idiots lied to the owners and say we were "goofing off", when the catering isnt there because you failed to order it, when we ferry for no reason what so ever just to ferry back out...

I can go on, and on, and on, and on.

We are teamplayers. Why do you think operations go as well as they do? Because of you, no, because of the pilots. We carry this place on our backs making up for your mistakes.

There are some at bridgeway that do the very best they can given the limited resources they have. To those I commend then and offer my utmost respect. To those like you who are completely clueless and incompetent I couldnt be bothered.

The fact is this, I will never cover up your mistakes again. I will never sit there again and allow an onwer to unload on me becuase his/her catering wasnt there, his/her flight was delayed due to scheduling errors or he/she was not informed about maint/catering/delays/etc. The owner will be educated about who has caused these problems, period.

The only way to fix the ops problems(notice I said ops, managements a different thread) is to inform those affected by the problems. For those of us who have been here 6 or more years the problems have been consistently pointed out to no avail. Telling the owners the truth is the only way to make this place better.

And for the record moron, owners are leaving becuase of you, not because of us. The pilots go above and beyond day after day and the owners appreciate that. They dont, however, appreciate lies and constant inefficiency.

Dont bother repsonding becuase you just arent worth the thought or effort.

 

[squonk]

Fracster posted:

tell the owners anything you want. You already lie to them, whats a few more. We tell them the truth

These owners know when they are being fed a line of BS.

I flew a sophisticated couple a couple of months ago that had requested they be notified any time they had to take the "land route". This is in the notes. Should not come as any surprise to anyone at NJA.

Of course we're coming out of the west and had no raft. We were filed over the land route, and I called to confirm this with dispatch.

Dispatch says "yes, there are storms over the gulf and we needed to file you over the land route" (there were also storms over land, six or a half dozen of the other). I did not even bring up the raft issue as it would have no bearing on this flight.

Owners show up with their son. As I'm doing the meet and greet, I casually bring up the land route issue as per my notes. I tell them about storms over the gulf, yada yada....when the son abruptly tells me, "just tell the lady you don't have a raft on board and stop jerking her around!"

Slightly taken aback, I proceed to tell the son that this is what I was dispatched to fly and I'm passing on the info as per my briefing notes. I then tell him, having said all that, we do not have a raft on board, so draw your own conclusions.

Nervous laughter from mom, and we loaded up and had them on their way.

What is the moral of the story? I think we can see that these owners are more sophisticated than CMH gives them credit for (these particular owners made part of their fortune in the aviation field), so we should stop this BS of feeding them half truths and outright lies.

I have flown this couple several times on "green" flights and they know my face, so I feel I have a certain repoire with them as crew/owner and they would trust my word.

They were not put out about this, but it just goes to show how we could be doing things much better as a company as far as owner/company relations.

 

[Fracster]

Our owners are the financial top 1 percent of the country. It is amazing how much, or lack of, credit NetJets gives them.

People with that much money are usualy pretty smart.

Case in point. Not too long a go I picked up an owner in the islands. We were very late due to weather at the departure airport. Upon arrival I met the owner, who was very angry, and proceeded to explain to him exactly what had happend. Everything could be verified and was documented yet the company told him (no lie here) that we were on the ramp for two hours and they had no idea why we hadnt come in to greet him.

If any NJA airplane does not call in the times within 15-20 minutes the company would start to get in touch. Any crew who delayed greeting an owner for 2 hours would be severely disciplined, rightfully so. Basicaly after speaking with the owner he knew he was being blatently lied to.

This happens all too often but people in Bridgeway don't want to hear it and others on this board say we should suck it up and stick together.

 

[Hawkered]

Yeah, I've had the same experiences, but I don't think I've ever seen a truly angry passenger while flying in the last twenty years.

Okay, so there was a communication issue. Most people don't have good communication skills. Passengers wanting a free flight seem to have "selective" skills in this area.

So owner services screwed up. Some bubbly on ice, a smooth flight and an effortless clearance at customs should have taken care of all that..and then some. Maybe you even got a tip.

There are far too many protagonists here who don't represent the majority at all. If you came from a dirt bag hauler or a bankrupt "cradle to grave" 121 carrrier..guess what, its probably time for you to leave. Working in America while people in Mexico and China are working for only a buck an hour will always be tougher than it was even three years ago. There is a happy medium in all this. I really don't need to know how much money we are making or losing, I just need to know that we have an effective management who can turn things around when they're getting tough. I want a fair wage that represents my abilities and those of my peers. I need job security as I get through my senior years. I need fair representation and accountability for the missteps in management and I need to know my voice will be heard when I see a screw up.

For those of you that are ripping off fuel placards or writing up bullsh!t items, you are the scum of the earth!!!

I am sick and tired of doing 14 hour days to cover you retards!!!

You are screwing me over...not the dang company.

 

[squonk]

Dispatchr said:

Let me ask you one question? Does your union sanction your negotiating 101 tactics? And I'm not talking about the "by the book" crap... does union management endorse increasing your DNIF rate and the rate at which you write up a/c?

We have been through this SO many times here.

I most certainly am talking about that "by the book crap" that you company types, can't seem to come to grips with. There are no grey areas here. It's right or wrong.

The union doesn't support any illegal work actions, but you already know this right?

 

[Some Dude]

Hawkered, please list what is a bullsh!t write up. I would like to know. Also, please give the facts of anyone who has ripped off a placard. Seems to me I would have heard of someone who was fired for such actions yet I have heard of nothing. Please give facts, dates, and fleet of such actions taken by crewmembers. Or are you just repeating what management moles have stated? Please educate me.

 

[Fracster]

There is no bullsh!t write up. It may be small, insignificant or just plain stupid but, rest assured, if you don't write it up and NetJets finds out they will simply self disclose on you and leave you to your devices to fight the FAA. So placards or things of the like are just as important as a tire being blown.