NetJets seniority

[Dixon Cider]

FamilyGuy...........Dispatcher...........I'm waiting.

 

[ce750drvr]

Well, for the first three years, when we went out of our way and went ABOVE AND BEYOND the call of duty, we got NOWHERE!! Management got fat in the wallet. Why should they give us a raise? We performed at a substantially reduced wage. There was not a reason to give us anything. When we decided to only give what was required, the company now all of a sudden wants to get it done.

Also, we aren't performing POORLY, (your comment pisses me off), we just quit giving 110%. Now we just give 100%. We do EXACTLY what we are supposed to. Nothing more, nothing less. We do our job.

IF WE DO OUR JOB POORLY, PEOPLE DIE!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

So for you to imply this, tells me what you think of this pilot group. Why don't you do us all a favor and quit. We would be a better company without you.

You are right about one thing, it is the fault of the company and the old local, 284. They are the reason we are in the mess we are in. This new group is doing what a union should. They are putting a stop to the abuses from the company. They violate our contract daily.

Would you be pissed if you have a contract with, say, a home builder. And in that contract it dictates that he/she will use (for an example) six panel doors, but when you get there, he/she installed crappy partical board doors. Would you not stand up for yourself and tell them to fix the problem? I KNOW YOU WOULD. What would you do if they told you to just live there and they promise to change the doors out, only it is now four and a half years since you moved in and you still have the crappy doors? What would you do? I doubt you would tell your friends to build with this company. You would tell them to go elsewhere. How long would you go before you got so disgusted with the builder that you decided to do something about it?

You people upstairs will never understand what we are about and what we are doing. You view it as an attack on you personally. You make an industry standard wage. We do not. You are fine with what you make. We are not. You tell us that if we don't like it then leave. Almost all of us (pilots) like it here, therefore, we would want to change it before giving up and moving on.

We will get what we want or we wont. Just shut the hell up. There is nothing you can do to that will make us change our minds.

Maybe you will figure that out someday. Doubt it though.

And for the record, you will know when I do my job poorly. Just please do me and my family a favor, don't come to my funeral.

Uh, no. They haven't been at the table all alone. If the company offers a contract that is sub-standard and won't move off of that offer, what can the negotiators do? There is NOTHING the negotiating group can do. The "normal" process includes doing only what is required by us. So yes, that is taking matters into our own hands and is therefore "normal" negotiating. If we make an offer to the company that they don't like, their "normal" process is to do nothing and wait.

As far as the rest of your post. At one point in time, I would fly even if I was sick. As long as I wasn't throwing up, I would still come to work. If the airplane had a write up, I would wait until the end of the tour, even though that is illegal, I was willing to do it to "help" the company out. What they endorse is that we do not fly sick, we do not fly tired, we do not fly broken airplanes. Basically we fly by the legal book. We do not break rules or laws from the FAA, FOM or contract. We will also no longer expose our fellow crew members to illnesses we may have.

So your comments are malicious and suggest that we break the FAA law.

Are you breaking any laws?

Man, those were awesome. Both were great post!
Unfortunately, those upstairs will believe the company because they are not in our shoes. They continue to argue the same crap and can't come up with anything new.

Take care bro.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

As usual, the company moles, stools, fools and hired "help" look like morons as they TRY and explain the company BULLCRAPOLLA on this board but my question is for everyone else.

Why argue with the "non-NJA-pilot" fools on this board ? It doesn't seem like there is much sense in doing so as you will obviously not change their minds and who cares if non-NJA pilots, or "other" departments support us or not ? You won't win any hearts and minds here. They have been thoroughly indoctrinated and assimilated into the Bridgeway Bob house of horrors.

If you care to respond I have made it easy, please select an appropriate response from the list below:

1. Arguing with "slow-minded" folk is just good sport.
2. I am completely bored but I found this computer in the crew lounge. The real problem here is that all of the porn sites are all blocked from my current location, so arguing with dolts is a close second choice.
3. Ignorance must be confronted, squelched, educated and, if necessary, crushed at all cost.
4. I only come here to see Turbojetcpt's AVATAR as it stimulates the blood flow to my loins but somehow I get caught up in these crazy Bridgeway Bob created conversational threads as I gaze upon the sheer, maddening beauty of his avatar.
5. Other (please explain in 200 words or less).

Carry on.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Well, for the first three years, when we went out of our way and went ABOVE AND BEYOND the call of duty, we got NOWHERE!! Management got fat in the wallet. Why should they give us a raise? We performed at a substantially reduced wage. There was not a reason to give us anything. When we decided to only give what was required, the company now all of a sudden wants to get it done.

How do you know management got fat in the wallet over the last three years? Have you hired someone to look at the books yet? The company has been offering the books up for months yet you seem to prefer sitting back and speculating about the money being made and b!tching about having no contract than getting off your @ss and looking at the books.

And as I've stated NUMEROUS times before on this board - the blame for a three year delay is shared by both parties - union and management. Yes, mgmt has been paying a reduced wage, but the union didnt want to sign a deal when the economy was terrible.

Also, we aren't performing POORLY, (your comment pisses me off), we just quit giving 110%. Now we just give 100%. We do EXACTLY what we are supposed to. Nothing more, nothing less. We do our job.

IF WE DO OUR JOB POORLY, PEOPLE DIE!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

So for you to imply this, tells me what you think of this pilot group. Why don't you do us all a favor and quit. We would be a better company without you.

So your definition of giving 100% is writing up an aircraft just before an owner trip for a tootsie roll in a snack drawer door?

Or getting the crew food and chowing down, but leaving the owner catering at the FBO?

Or how about the pilots that were released the day prior at 1600, had a 0600 show the next day for a 0700 owner flight, but couldnt find a way to make the 5 minute trip from the hotel to the airport? Even though each hotel room had three cab companies listed and they all operated at 0600? That crew called in at 0610 and asked for a limo ride to take them on that 5 minute ride to the airport and ended up delaying the owner 35 minutes. That's giving 100%?!?!?

Or removing fuel placards? That's giving 100%? Wrong....That's criminal activity.

You dont want me to describe these actions as performing poorly? You want to defend them and say that's giving 100%? That's doing your job? Bullsh!t.

If that's your definition of 100% then I could never support rewarding that behavior and giving you a raise.

You are right about one thing, it is the fault of the company and the old local, 284. They are the reason we are in the mess we are in. This new group is doing what a union should. They are putting a stop to the abuses from the company. They violate our contract daily.

Would you be pissed if you have a contract with, say, a home builder. And in that contract it dictates that he/she will use (for an example) six panel doors, but when you get there, he/she installed crappy partical board doors. Would you not stand up for yourself and tell them to fix the problem? I KNOW YOU WOULD. What would you do if they told you to just live there and they promise to change the doors out, only it is now four and a half years since you moved in and you still have the crappy doors? What would you do? I doubt you would tell your friends to build with this company. You would tell them to go elsewhere. How long would you go before you got so disgusted with the builder that you decided to do something about it?

Everyone here in the flight center supports the pilots getting a raise and having their contract terms followed. No argument there.

Where we have an argument is how you are going about it. You are sh!tting on everyone else in the company and the industry in your efforts to get what you want. That is unacceptable.

To use your house analogy - Yes, if I was promised six-panel doors, then I would insist on six-panel doors. I would NOT however, kick holes in the walls of the house in protest and call the mailman a scab for delivering mail to the house while I was negotiating with the builder. Cause guess what....you'll eventually get the six panel doors but now you'll have holes in the walls and a pissed off mailman who constantly loses your mail. Now, do you want to live in that house?

Wake the fu(k up and realize that you're pissing away any potential friends you may have (not unlike the situation that Northwest mechanics find themselves in now)

You people upstairs will never understand what we are about and what we are doing. You view it as an attack on you personally. You make an industry standard wage. We do not. You are fine with what you make. We are not. You tell us that if we don't like it then leave. Almost all of us (pilots) like it here, therefore, we would want to change it before giving up and moving on.

We will get what we want or we wont. Just shut the hell up. There is nothing you can do to that will make us change our minds.

Maybe you will figure that out someday. Doubt it though.

There you go again, underestimating the knowledge and intelligence of the rest of the people in the company. We do know what's going on and what this is about. Again, and slowly this time, pretty much everyone supports the pilots getting a raise. Its your asinine tactics that we have a problem with.

And no, we dont view it as a personal attack....IT IS A PERSONAL ATTACK. Check out these boards....they are filled with personal attacks on fellow flight center employees, managers, executives, Mr. Santulli, even the OWNERS. Nobody has a problem with negotiating, even hard negotiating, but personal attacks on anyone is inappropriate and not helpful. We will all have to live with each other and work together once this gets resolved....personal attacks will just make it difficult or maybe impossible to forgive and forget.

And if you guys really like it here, then why all the hard @ss rhetoric about how terrible it is here? I keep getting conflicting signals from the pilot group on this board....the summary seems to be, its great except for the pay.

If that's accurate then maybe you should have talked about pay at the very beginning instead of wasting 3 years going over every single article in the contract except pay. Maybe you should focus on the pay and stop bringing up side issues (6S) to bog things down. Maybe you should hire someone to look at the books that the company has been offering for months now.....

 

[FamilyGuy]

Uh, no. They haven't been at the table all alone. If the company offers a contract that is sub-standard and won't move off of that offer, what can the negotiators do? There is NOTHING the negotiating group can do. The "normal" process includes doing only what is required by us. So yes, that is taking matters into our own hands and is therefore "normal" negotiating. If we make an offer to the company that they don't like, their "normal" process is to do nothing and wait.

Turn that argument around and look at it from the other side....

If the union comes in with exorbitant demands and doesnt move off those demands, what can the negotiators do?

If the union insists on renegotiating every article in the contract for three years and not even talk about pay, what can the negotiators do?

If the company offers the books up for expert analysis, and the union stalls and doesnt take them up on the offer, what can the negotiators do?

So who's doing nothing and waiting?

 

[sikntired]

Santulli ain't no "Mister"...quit giving him the respect that he doesn't deserve. His words and actions have been nothing but a slap to the face of every union pilot working for NetJets.

You are seeing, hearing and reading ONE SIDE of "The Story". You'll find out the *real deal* when this crap is all over. The company has employed union busters to get them through this shi'ite, rather than "doing the right thing". The monster ego's involved in this pissin' contest are going to be the downfall of NetJets, and NO, I'm not talking about any of the StrongUnion leadership's ego's, or the pilots. If you don't understand Dixon Cider's posts, then there's nothing more that can be said. He's so RIGHT ON. If you've been Stockholm Syndrome'd by the company, which I think you have, well, again, there's nothing more that can be said here, and I just feel sorry for you.

Books, schmooks....they can and ARE made to look any way that the company wants them to look. Our own personal tax accountant makes things *look* like we want them to look to the eyes of the IRS. You don't think that NetJets isn't employing every possible snakey trick to build and feather their nest? Think of Enron....Wake up.

What a mess. Clearly, your precious NetJets will never be the same regardless of any old way this shakes out. Here's a hint for you....quit falling for the bogus bullshi'it that's being spoon fed to you at work concerning this contract crap. The pilots and management are duking it out. May the best men win.

sikntired

 

[FamilyGuy]

Santulli ain't no "Mister"...quit giving him the respect that he doesn't deserve. His words and actions have been nothing but a slap to the face of every union pilot working for NetJets.

This is exactly what I was talking about...more personal attacks...Learn to STAY ON TARGET. This is about negotiating a new work contract. It is not about individuals. Personal attacks will not help, only divide.

This person you are deriding created the industry and all of the pilots jobs that everyone in the union enjoys. That should be something that is celebrated, not belittled.

Books, schmooks....they can and ARE made to look any way that the company wants them to look. Our own personal tax accountant makes things *look* like we want them to look to the eyes of the IRS. You don't think that NetJets isn't employing every possible snakey trick to build and feather their nest? Think of Enron....Wake up.

Uh...are you really that stupid? Hello...they having something called the SEC that regulates those 'books'. That's why you hire experts to review them and get an accurate picture of the company's financial condition. That's also one of your requirements to getting out of abeyance.

Now if you're happy with the status quo, then go ahead and stick your head in the sand and scream all you want, but it wont get you closer to a contract.

I suggest you start reading the news and look at what's going on at Northwest airlines...their pilots had no trouble reading the books....they also offered to share that knowledge with the mechanics, who, much like the NJA pilots, scoffed and claimed the books were cooked. Look where that ignorance has landed them.

Do not forget that negotiations are largely about information. Information is power, and currently the company is the only one with the information about the financial status of the company. There may well be a very good reason they have set limits on what they can pay. If you dont avail yourself of that information then you are negotiating from a position of weakness.

I also highly recommend that you dont go on the internet and boast that you've doctored your tax returns.....not very bright....but then again, it explains a lot.

Enron? Do you honestly think anyone, much less Mr. Santulli or Mr. Buffett would engage in any behavior that would have them indicted and on trial for fraud? I suggest you read your tagline again and ask yourself if Mr. Buffett would risk his reputation for another million dollars when he's already the second richest man in the world. What would be the point?

 

[DO-82 driver]

Last company recurrent BB came right out and blamed the pilots for owners leaving.....these guys are really getting desperate..... Can't even realize their own follies.

BB says selling the core fleet was the right thing to do.....45 minutes later DMcG claims selling the core may not have been the right thing to do in retro....

And Bridgeway Bob is really starting to lose it....I hope they can get their money back from the high-priced attorneys who were suppose to break this Union.....They only succeeded in uniniting us.

Thank guys......Happy Holidays to all......

 

[FamilyGuy]

And Bridgeway Bob is really starting to lose it....I hope they can get their money back from the high-priced attorneys who were suppose to break this Union.....They only succeeded in uniniting us.

Thank guys......Happy Holidays to all......

You can't spell and you equate the middle of August with the holidays....

and you think Bridgeway Bob is losing it?

What did they put in that union koolaid anyways?

 

[Hawkered]

Family Guy

The koolaid that the union feeds us does provide more hope than we are being fed in recurrent by our management team. Any purchaser of capital equipment in the world could have told you that selling the core fleet was a massive error. Eventually it all has to be purchased again, only at a more expensive price. I've suggested a single idea that would easily save the company over $50k a week, yet the company has shown no interest at all.

Charles Dickens had a central theme to many of his writings that you eventually become what you hate. You have told our fellow pilots to stop making personal attacks, yet you have both resorted and retorted with the same.

Family Guy, you probably know who I am, and I am sure who you are. This has not played out as either side would want it and I have three basic ideas.

1. Don't allow yourself or members of your management team to remain condescending. You are not "teaching" us anything. At the moment we are watching in horror.

2. Don't stoop to personal attacks on the pilot group because some of us are frustrated. Hold the higher ground.

3.
Git 'r Done!!