Netjets Recalls!!!!

[imacdog]

NJA is waiting for the first Challenger 350s to arrive before recalling pilots into that plane. No open FO bids for that plane. Being done as an anti-union tactic.

How's that?

 

[billybob]

Imc,

This is both funny and true, a blessing on your house.

Who wants to kick the dog out of first?

 

[gutshotdraw]

I just trained one of the January 8 at Delta. He was a 2001 hire Gulfstream Capt. He told me that he's making more as an MD-88 F/O than he was as a 13 yr. Gulfstream Capt.

He's a good guy and a friend of mine. Was furloughed from Big D after 9/11 and bypassed recall repeatedly until this go-round. He told me the same thing: More money as a Mad Dog FO than as a G-IV PIC. Sorry to see him go but can't blame him in the slightest.

The brain-drain we will see over the next 18 months is going to hit this company hard. And Jordy is oblivious.

 

[BentOver]

The brain-drain we will see over the next 18 months is going to hit this company hard. And Jordy is oblivious.

Pretty sure the other 2,500 Captains, and FO's, who have years and years of aviation experience will be able to manage.......

Most of the SIC's on property had more experience when hired than most of the Captains when they were hired...

 

[jetlag7]

Pretty sure the other 2,500 Captains, and FO's, who have years and years of aviation experience will be able to manage.......

Most of the SIC's on property had more experience when hired than most of the Captains when they were hired...

Which is why most of the pilots leaving are SIC's.....

 

[G4dude]

He's a good guy and a friend of mine. Was furloughed from Big D after 9/11 and bypassed recall repeatedly until this go-round. He told me the same thing: More money as a Mad Dog FO than as a G-IV PIC. Sorry to see him go but can't blame him in the slightest.

The brain-drain we will see over the next 18 months is going to hit this company hard. And Jordy is oblivious.

I am looking to leave just to get away from the morons in Columbus. Not that my leaving will constitute a "brain drain."

 

[CRAWDADDY]

I am looking to leave just to get away from the morons in Columbus. Not that my leaving will constitute a "brain drain."

You can say that again

 

[B747Flyer]

I am looking to leave just to get away from the morons in Columbus...QUOTE]

That's probably why I won't go back...

 

[pilotyip]

I am looking to leave just to get away from the morons in Columbus. Not that my leaving will constitute a "brain drain."

and you are going to go someplace in aviation where there are no morons? When you get there lets us all know. At lease with NJ morons you get decent pay and QOL, compared to hauling rubber dawg crap out of KYIP in the middle of the night into a dark Mexican airport.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Pretty sure the other 2,500 Captains, and FO's, who have years and years of aviation experience will be able to manage.......

Most of the SIC's on property had more experience when hired than most of the Captains when they were hired...

Pretty sure you missed the point.


Whenever ANY pilot takes their training and experience out the door, it constitutes a "brain-drain." Replacing those skills, ESPECIALLY in this increasingly depleted pilot market, will be a growing challenge to our clueless company leadership.

 

[imacdog]

That's a good point Gut, especially on the big G where its pilots are born, not made.

 

[CA1900]

At lease with NJ morons you get decent pay and QOL...

Not if the current trends continue.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

What do the Mexicans do with all of that rubber dog cr@p?

 

[BentOver]

and you are going to go someplace in aviation where there are no morons? When you get there lets us all know. At lease with NJ morons you get decent pay and QOL, compared to hauling rubber dawg crap out of KYIP in the middle of the night into a dark Mexican airport.

Yawn.........

Professionals don't accept status quo or are satisfied just because they are payed better than guys flying night freight into Mexico. Someone, somewhere has to have the balls to get what they deserve, not what ownership thinks they deserve. You may have not had those balls, thus remained at JUS, but others do. And if NJA doesn't provide a professional career expectation, they will go somewhere that will.

 

[pilotyip]

Yawn.........

Professionals don't accept status quo or are satisfied just because they are payed better than guys flying night freight into Mexico. Someone, somewhere has to have the balls to get what they deserve, not what ownership thinks they deserve. You may have not had those balls, thus remained at JUS, but others do. And if NJA doesn't provide a professional career expectation, they will go somewhere that will.

Oh! please, I was litterly begged to come to work at NJ back in 2000, but I could not take the pay cut. Compared to most jobs out there NJ is a dream job. The guys coming back from JUS where they have been in a holding pattern for 4 years will be making close to $100K/yr as an F/O and would be happy to spend the rest of their careers in the right seat the job is so good compared to most other places.

But that probably is not good enough for you because you know how to fly an airplane, and I mean that is very special skill that anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can accomplish.

 

[BentOver]

Oh! please, I was litterly begged to come to work at NJ back in 2000, but I could not take the pay cut. Compared to most jobs out there NJ is a dream job. The guys coming back from JUS where they have been in a holding pattern for 4 years will be making close to $100K/yr as an F/O and would be happy to spend the rest of their careers in the right seat the job is so good compared to most other places.

But that probably is not good enough for you because you know how to fly an airplane, and I mean that is very special skill that anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can accomplish.

You are correct. $100k for working 18 days a month, having barely any ability to trade work days, and not being able to enjoy playing in any type of leagues etc is not adequate.

Also zero chance of upgrading within the next ten years is unacceptable. And when one was able to upgrade it'll be into a Phenom with little chance for movement is not what I consider acceptable.

Is the job better than working for JUS? Most definitely. But being content to accept the fate of a NJA SIC merely because it is a better job than a night freight operation......

You have the same old story of Unions destroying your once promising career at whatever 121 you were at.. (started with a V, don't recall the company)

And anyone who finds NJA unacceceptable in its current form is ungrateful in your opinion.

 

[ultrarunner]

Interesting... But he may have been embellishing a bit... If he didn't try at NJA and only counted salary on the 7 on 7 off schedule he would have been making $132,219 a year... Based off of 80 hrs a month, he would have to be a 13yr MD-88 F/O.... Or is my math wrong??

Your math is correct. Furloughed so long, he's back on property at the top of the pay scale )))

 

[imacdog]

Your math is correct. Furloughed so long, he's back on property at the top of the pay scale )))

Just like some at NJA could be. Good to hear that pay longevity continues for the Delta furloughees.

 

[jonjuan]

Interesting... But he may have been embellishing a bit... If he didn't try at NJA and only counted salary on the 7 on 7 off schedule he would have been making $132,219 a year... Based off of 80 hrs a month, he would have to be a 13yr MD-88 F/O.... Or is my math wrong??

$140K/year on the smallest plane which would get him weekends/most holidays off, $21,000/year company 401K contribution (no self contribution required), $11,000 profit sharing, 3 soon to be 4 weeks vacation, 2-3 years until potential upgrade and $200K/year, $50/year unlimited world wide non-rev benefits for the whole family plus parents, among other perks.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

And Waldo will still be stunned they don't come back to NJ

 

[pilotyip]

And anyone who finds NJA unacceceptable in its current form is ungrateful in your opinion.

Not at all ungrateful, just out of touch with reality when compared to other jobs flying medium sized airplanes

 

[jetlag7]

Not at all ungrateful, just out of touch with reality when compared to other jobs flying medium sized airplanes

You're making the wrong comparison Yip.

You shouldn't be looking at the planes, but rather the CREW that pilot them.

I'm sure you know there are numerous "entry-level" corporate and charter jobs that operate similar equipment to what we fly. ("medium-sized airplanes" as you described them)

In fact, early in my career as a "freshly-minted" 500 hour First Officer, I flew charter for one of these companies in an aircraft very similar to the one I now fly for NJ.

In the here and now, I'm essentially performing the same duties as I did all those years ago, but for a larger compensation package.

So why do you think that is?

Do you suppose several thousand hours of experience and a few decades worth of additional experience have anything to do with it?

You could make a similar comparison between a recent medical school graduate and a surgical veteran. Although both are licensed the same, and both technically possess the same skillset, who do you think commands the higher salary?

Once upon a time, experience used to matter to NJ and they were willing to pay for seasoned flight crew.

Sadly, those days seem to be over.

NJ is no longer remotely competitive with other company compensation packages who are hiring pilots with the same level of training, experience, and qualifications.

In this regard, I believe they are the ones "out of touch with reality..."

 

[BentOver]

YIP is just of the mindset of "everyone should be happy that their job isn't as bad as someone elses".....

Allowing yourself to be subject to mediocrity does not mean everyone else should be ok with it.... It's the drive to be better or achieve more that makes some highly successful in this industry... (there are also some who are driven but just had the misfortune of bad timing or just not getting the call although they deserved it)

 

[pilotyip]

YIP is just of the mindset of "everyone should be happy that their job isn't as bad as someone elses".....

wrong, my post was just the opposite, the furloughed NJ guys at JUS are moving from mediocrity to a much better place when they get their recalls. Compared to what they have now being a NJ F/O for the rest of their life would double their current pay and give them much better QOL. What is wrong with that.

 

[OPECJet]

And Waldo will still be stunned they don't come back to NJ

Waldo doesn't want us back.

 

[gunfyter]

Easy on Yip ... he was right about the pilot shortage

 

[Praetorian]

You're making the wrong comparison Yip.

You shouldn't be looking at the planes, but rather the CREW that pilot them.

I'm sure you know there are numerous "entry-level" corporate and charter jobs that operate similar equipment to what we fly. ("medium-sized airplanes" as you described them)

In fact, early in my career as a "freshly-minted" 500 hour First Officer, I flew charter for one of these companies in an aircraft very similar to the one I now fly for NJ.

In the here and now, I'm essentially performing the same duties as I did all those years ago, but for a larger compensation package.

So why do you think that is?

Do you suppose several thousand hours of experience and a few decades worth of additional experience have anything to do with it?

You could make a similar comparison between a recent medical school graduate and a surgical veteran. Although both are licensed the same, and both technically possess the same skillset, who do you think commands the higher salary?

Once upon a time, experience used to matter to NJ and they were willing to pay for seasoned flight crew.

Sadly, those days seem to be over.

NJ is no longer remotely competitive with other company compensation packages who are hiring pilots with the same level of training, experience, and qualifications.

In this regard, I believe they are the ones "out of touch with reality..."

I really wish experience counted for something in aviation as it does in medicine, but it doesn't. Ask yourself, what would Chuck Yeager be if he were hired by NJ tomorrow? The lowest paid F/O on the seniority list.

 

[jetlag7]

I really wish experience counted for something in aviation as it does in medicine, but it doesn't. Ask yourself, what would Chuck Yeager be if he were hired by NJ tomorrow? The lowest paid F/O on the seniority list.

We're only paid what we can negotiate....

Why do you think Physicians in other countries earn considerably less than their US counterparts?

Look no further than The American Medical Association (AMA) -- arguably the most successful trade union in history.

 

[LAZYB]

We're only paid what we can negotiate....

Why do you think Physicians in other countries earn considerably less than their US counterparts?

Look no further than The American Medical Association (AMA) -- arguably the most successful trade union in history.

True dat

 

[Praetorian]

We're only paid what we can negotiate....

Why do you think Physicians in other countries earn considerably less than their US counterparts?

Look no further than The American Medical Association (AMA) -- arguably the most successful trade union in history.

Yea that was kinda my point.