Netjets New Payscale

[dsptchrnja]

Well then here it is.... NJA offered to open the NJA books ONLY. The Union wants to see ALL of the books, for Net Jets, Inc. That includes NetJets International, NetJets Europe, NetJets Management, NetJets Middle East, NetJets Asia. They also want to see FSI books, since they are a BH company. We want to know the financial relationship between NJA and Marquis. Without ALL of this information it is impossible to discern the TRUE flow of money. And the company will not provide this information. Why? Because they know that it will show that NetJets, Inc. is very profitable and in a huge growth phase all over the world.

Let's give you a perfect scenario.. This is actually happening ALL THE TIME.
An NJA jet pulls up to the NJM hangar at HPN. The CPt asks for 2 qts of oil. The charge??? $97... For TWO quarts of oil??? To the SAME company???

There are numerous examples of this kind of money movement. Why? Because NJA is the only NetJets, Inc company that in unionized. So it is better for NJA to show a loss.... for bargaining purposes.

Also, NJA has been supporting NJE for years. NJA talked about a "modest" profit. Yet what they fail to tell you is that all of the losses of NJE were supported by NJA. Management has been using NJE as an excuse for our low wages for 3 years.... what next??? NJ China???

If you aren't smart enough to see what's going on in this regard, then you should take some business classes.

When determing the proper pay raise for crews, the union doesn't need to see any financials from EJM, NJI, NJE, or Flight Safety any more than they need to see Dairy Queen's. You pay raise will be determined by NJA's generated income and revenue, not other BH companies.

The company has fully disclosed from the beginning that they have supported NJE from NJA profits pre-BH. The union doesn't need to see NJE financials to see that. This would be fully reflected in all NJA's financial documents and balance sheet refuting your opinion that they will not show the "true flow of money". NJE's inflow of cash from NJA on their books will be the same as the outflow of cash on NJA's books.

Not sure why the union can't figure that out. Perhaps they are trying to make the point that the subsidizing of NJE and the profitability of Flight Safety should lead to increase in NJA pilot salaries. And they can make that argument. But with little success now that they all belong to BH as seperate entities. BH subsidizes NJE now, not NJA. BH owns Flight Safety now so a profit from them doesn't necessitate a influx of cash for NJA any more than a profit from Dairy Queen or Geico. I'm of the opinion that the union has only hurt their case to the NMB by refusing a third party financial disclosure. Perhaps this is why they are where they are in the negotiating process.

 

[hydrarkt]

Right now you are being hazed into the fraternity- You are in hell week-I am not anti union, I am just saying keep your eyes open.

Our eyes ARE open. That's why we got rid of the former MEC and the last local. We kicked those guys to the curb BECAUSE their agenda did not benefit the pilot group. The new local, 1108, is ALL about us. Of course Teamsters International has an agenda. We know that. However, currently it does NOT conflict with the desires of this pilot group. And believe me, we're watching.

 

[Some Dude]

Dispatch Dork if you were really a casino puke you would be worried about all the money flowing from NJA to all the other companies. It affects your pay as a cmh employee. No money left at NJA then no money for raises for cmh employees. Are you that stupid not to realize that?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Dispatch Dork if you were really a casino puke you would be worried about all the money flowing from NJA to all the other companies. It affects your pay as a cmh employee. No money left at NJA then no money for raises for cmh employees. Are you that stupid not to realize that?

LOL...you dont even understand the structure of the company you claim to work for.....

All of us in the 'casino' are part of netjets services....not NJA.

now who's stupid?

 

[dsptchrnja]

Dispatch Dork if you were really a casino puke you would be worried about all the money flowing from NJA to all the other companies. It affects your pay as a cmh employee. No money left at NJA then no money for raises for cmh employees. Are you that stupid not to realize that?

No, not worried in the least.

Here's why. People like RTS are infinately more concerned about the welfare of this company than you and me combined and any risk they take is calculated - but more to the point - it's his perogative to do so.

That's what gets me about people with similiar perceptions. You haven't learned the first thing about economics 101 - employees exist to serve the companies needs, not the other way around. Companies don't exist to serve employees, they exist to make a profit - and when they make a profit they have the right as the risk-taker to spend the money on whatever they want. If that means starting another company - who are you to say to the one who gave you a job he can't do so? Only someone with a high degree of arrogance would do so.

Now in the case of the pilots they are bargaining employees which entitles them to do exactly that. So any arguments you wish to make should be about trying to prove whether or not you're making fair pay due to the direct result of money that would have otherwise been given to raises but was instead given to other ventures. But no one has even come to making that point because the company has bargained in good faith and offered a 23%-40% increase, WITH BENNIES, based on NJA financials ALONE. Rightly so. If the company does not bargain in good faith you have the union to plead your case to the NMB. Rightly so. So far the NMB hasn't shown any sign of seeing it your way.

Your responsibility, it seems, is to work for the wages you agreed to work for and if you personally determine the pay is sub-standard and not worth the work you are willing to put in, then God bless the USA, you have every right to look for another job. No questions asked.

 

[hydrarkt]

What you 2 clowns don't want to post is that the reason NJA management tells the pilots that they can't give us the appropriate pay for the job that we do is that NJA "doesn't have the money!!" They say that they can't afford to pay it because "profits are slim." Well, of course they are... when NJA, a unionized company, continues to fund all of the other non union entities AND continues to piss money away on terrible scheduling practices that we see EVERY day.
Management wants NJA to show a loss so that they don't have to pay us. It's simple... by seeing ALL of the NetJets, Inc. books, we can determine EXACTLY how profitable they are. The union isn't the one claiming poor financials, the company is. We say PROVE IT!!! If it's true then there is nothing to hide. It seems that there must be something to hide, otherwise they would open ALL of their books.

 

[dsptchrnja]

What you 2 clowns don't want to post is that the reason NJA management tells the pilots that they can't give us the appropriate pay for the job that we do is that NJA "doesn't have the money!!" They say that they can't afford to pay it because "profits are slim." Well, of course they are... when NJA, a unionized company, continues to fund all of the other non union entities AND continues to piss money away on terrible scheduling practices that we see EVERY day.
Management wants NJA to show a loss so that they don't have to pay us. It's simple... by seeing ALL of the NetJets, Inc. books, we can determine EXACTLY how profitable they are. The union isn't the one claiming poor financials, the company is.

So that's your whole deal? You belive the company is vastley more profitable than they say they are? So if the company proves what they've been saying all along you'll glady take the raise they are offering based on those financials? If that's the case then great, no one has anything to worry about.

 

[Diesel]

Who gives a SH1t if the company is profitable or not.

The pilots cost X amount of dollars. That's the cost of doing business. We want our X amount of dollars. The company can figure out how to pay for it.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Who gives a SH1t if the company is profitable or not.

The pilots cost X amount of dollars. That's the cost of doing business. We want our X amount of dollars. The company can figure out how to pay for it.

Now you sound like Rick Dubinsky.....gonna wring the last golden egg out of the goose...that paid off in the long run...

 

[MalteseX]

deleted

 

[dsptchrnja]

Who gives a SH1t if the company is profitable or not.

The pilots cost X amount of dollars. That's the cost of doing business. We want our X amount of dollars. The company can figure out how to pay for it.

Did you tell the company that in your interview? Or did you change your mind after you agreed to work for X amount of dollars?

 

[FAcFriend]

You are absolutley correct about the company spinning and having an agenda. You are also correct about the Union having an agenda, however, its agenda is the mandate given it by the Member/Pilots.


x- This is right out of the pilot union hand book. "mandate, transparency." etc. Please, evaluate the situation a little better than this.

"I want my husband to work. I hate that he has to pass up a 25% raise because union bullies won't allow him to make another choice. But everytime a union family comes out and says "hey, this is not my first choice" we are slammed and threatened personally."

Few union people know that you have to belong to the union but you do not have to pay ALL the dues. You have choices. They are scary choices because I know that if you chose to pay reduced dues that do not include the ad budget, then everyone will know and you will be subject to the mob mentality.
But a few families are stepping up, saying settle this, and lets take what we can right now and work on the next contract.

Unfortunately, your transparent, mandated union won't give them a voice.

 

[FAcFriend]

When determing the proper pay raise for crews, the union doesn't need to see any financials from EJM, NJI, NJE,

I don't agree. The negotiating team does need to consider the profits of all of Netjets in order to effectively determine pay wages for the pilots.

The pilots do have the clout and ability to look beyond. That is the beauty of a union shop. There are many drawbacks to a union, this is one of the upsides.

Ford has MOPAR, their parts and service division, even fast food groups- European Divisions pay US divisions for things like Accounting fees etc.

What we havent seen here is what NJE pays NJA or NJS -
The pilots negotiations team needs all the information to make sound judgements- Give it to them and move on-

 

[dsptchrnja]

I don't agree. The negotiating team does need to consider the profits of all of Netjets in order to effectively determine pay wages for the pilots.

I could agree if "all of Netjets" included EJM, NJI, NJE and FLIGHT SAFETY, ETC. But they are not NJA Companies, they are BH. So isn't Dairy Queen and Geico. I agree they are relevent only to the degree that cash is coming or going from them directly to and from NJA - but all that shows up on NJA financial balance sheets.

Each BH company must survive on it's own - even NJE (eventually). NJA's expectation is to provide an annual 7% return to BH. Pilots salaries are based off NJA financials alone. Are you saying that if Flight Safety has a boom year that NJA salaries should be affected? I realized there is a conspiracy theory out there that NJA is charging it's sister companies more to funnel money into them so they can cheat the pilots out of more pay. As far as I'm concerned it is just that - a theory with an agenda.

 

[BoilerUP]

As far as I'm concerned it is just that - a theory with an agenda.

I have no dog in this fight (other than knowing a couple NJA pilots and a couple flight followers) - but if the company would allow the union access to the books they want to see, we would TRULY see if it was "just a theory with an agenda". What does NJA have to hide from their "valued" crewmembers?

Anything less than NBAA average is unacceptable, IMO.