Netjets New Payscale

[buttercup]

Like being a union stooge is any better. The only reason the other NetJets employees are posting on this board is that they are sick and tired to seeing a few malcontents bash a very good company.

The only reason you guys get on here and bad-mouth the company is that you dont want people to come here - its another union tool to try and put pressure on the company.

Everyone sees through your smoke screen.

Telling a potential newhire about what he can realistically expect to get paid his first couple of years is hardly a union tool!!

 

[Majik]

The only reason you guys get on here and bad-mouth the company is that you dont want people to come here - its another union tool to try and put pressure on the company.

Maybe we could fool potential new-hires into coming here by lying about how great the pay is and brag about the rapid upgrade time . Would that make you happy, or does the truth disturb you? When I came here, had someone told me that it would have taken this long to get the pay where HR/Pilot Recruitment said it would be I would have run the other way. Shame on me for believing the representatives of this company but I'll be danged if I'll try to fool the next guy.

Sure, it helps the pilot's cause if the company is unable to attract potential new hires. There sure isn't a pilot shortage but there is a big shortage of pilots willing to work for what the company is currently offering. It's pretty apparent that we won't have a new contract anytime soon until we use some leverage to encourage the company to increase our pay. The company already tried upping new-hire pay (only), to try to alleviate their recruiting problem. The union said increase everyone's pay or none at all. No playing favorites only when it benefits you (the company).

I guess that was just another company tool to try to put pressure on the pilots. Are you unhappy with management for trying that approach? Look, I don't know if you have an agenda or you honestly believe what you write. I know you want to look after the company's interest since you work there (if you actually do). I know it seems like those bad ol' pilots are going to run your company into the ground. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. Bottom line - it doesn't matter to me what you think because it's our contract to negotiate, not yours. Now send me my crew food, release, or whatever your job description calls for or I'm cancelling the next leg . No eatee, no flyee.

 

[Hogprint]

Seven day tour...

Six pax legs...one of those was the same gal for two legs....

Five birds in seven days...only one was for maint...

But it's the pilots fault we're in dire straits here?

 

[dsptchrnja]

You have become a total TOOL.

What does your opinion with me have to do with financials? Stick to the issues.

 

[hydrarkt]

the deal

What does your opinion with me have to do with financials? Stick to the issues.

Well then here it is.... NJA offered to open the NJA books ONLY. The Union wants to see ALL of the books, for Net Jets, Inc. That includes NetJets International, NetJets Europe, NetJets Management, NetJets Middle East, NetJets Asia. They also want to see FSI books, since they are a BH company. We want to know the financial relationship between NJA and Marquis. Without ALL of this information it is impossible to discern the TRUE flow of money. And the company will not provide this information. Why? Because they know that it will show that NetJets, Inc. is very profitable and in a huge growth phase all over the world.

Let's give you a perfect scenario.. This is actually happening ALL THE TIME.
An NJA jet pulls up to the NJM hangar at HPN. The CPt asks for 2 qts of oil. The charge??? $97... For TWO quarts of oil??? To the SAME company???

There are numerous examples of this kind of money movement. Why? Because NJA is the only NetJets, Inc company that in unionized. So it is better for NJA to show a loss.... for bargaining purposes.

Also, NJA has been supporting NJE for years. NJA talked about a "modest" profit. Yet what they fail to tell you is that all of the losses of NJE were supported by NJA. Management has been using NJE as an excuse for our low wages for 3 years.... what next??? NJ China???

If you aren't smart enough to see what's going on in this regard, then you should take some business classes.

 

[x402]

What does your opinion with me have to do with financials? Stick to the issues.

The difference is between the words, company and corporation.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Maybe we could fool potential new-hires into coming here by lying about how great the pay is and brag about the rapid upgrade time . Would that make you happy, or does the truth disturb you? When I came here, had someone told me that it would have taken this long to get the pay where HR/Pilot Recruitment said it would be I would have run the other way. Shame on me for believing the representatives of this company but I'll be danged if I'll try to fool the next guy.

I've never advocated lying to potential new hires. I've always believed that full disclosure is the best course for everyone involved. The simple truth is that while you have a legitimate gripe about your pay, everything else at NetJets is actually pretty good. I've seen several strong union supporters state on this board that they like the work, the schedules, the benefits, etc....but they want a raise. I dont fault them for that....everybody wants more money. The point is, if you bring up the bad, make sure you bring up the good as well. You should give a fair and balanced point of view.....not just slanted to one side.

Sure, it helps the pilot's cause if the company is unable to attract potential new hires. There sure isn't a pilot shortage but there is a big shortage of pilots willing to work for what the company is currently offering. It's pretty apparent that we won't have a new contract anytime soon until we use some leverage to encourage the company to increase our pay. The company already tried upping new-hire pay (only), to try to alleviate their recruiting problem. The union said increase everyone's pay or none at all. No playing favorites only when it benefits you (the company).

The latest proposal from the company (and confirmed by pilots on this board) is between 23%-40%....sounds like it applies to everyone, not just one small group.

As for how long it will take to get your new deal, doesnt that depend on the union and the company agreeing on the cost of the proposals on the table and the company's financial condition? I find it hard to believe that it will take you years to figure that out.

I guess that was just another company tool to try to put pressure on the pilots. Are you unhappy with management for trying that approach? Look, I don't know if you have an agenda or you honestly believe what you write. I know you want to look after the company's interest since you work there (if you actually do). I know it seems like those bad ol' pilots are going to run your company into the ground. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. Bottom line - it doesn't matter to me what you think because it's our contract to negotiate, not yours. Now send me my crew food, release, or whatever your job description calls for or I'm cancelling the next leg . No eatee, no flyee.

If it doesnt matter what I think, then why has the union put a NetJets employees section on their website?

 

[Some Dude]

You guys remember the full page ad NJA was running in the flying magazines trying to hire pilots? Do you remember the lie that was in the ad stating you would make about $60,000 your first year as a captain? Yep that some great truthful company.

 

[FAcFriend]

Well then here it is.... NJA offered to open the NJA books ONLY. The Union wants to see ALL of the books, for Net Jets, Inc.

I believe this was always part of the corp equation IF the union had professional financial reps present. Please ask for the WHOLE story from both sides.

The union guys have to realize the union side has a spin and corporate guys realize corp side has a spin. Both have agendas, a part of those agendas is about the pilots but if the pilots believe for one minute that the Teamsters and their new local is all about pleasing the pilots you are quite nieve.

Right now you are being hazed into the fraternity- You are in hell week-I am not anti union, I am just saying keep your eyes open.

 

[x402]

Both have agendas, a part of those agendas is about the pilots but if the pilots believe for one minute that the Teamsters and their new local is all about pleasing the pilots you are quite nieve.

You are absolutley correct about the company spinning and having an agenda. You are also correct about the Union having an agenda, however, its agenda is the mandate given it by the Member/Pilots. Unlike the previous Local that did have an agenda of its own. The people in charge are pilots elected by 89% of the piolts. The International has been very supportive as we move through the process of completing the change to Local 1108.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Well then here it is.... NJA offered to open the NJA books ONLY. The Union wants to see ALL of the books, for Net Jets, Inc. That includes NetJets International, NetJets Europe, NetJets Management, NetJets Middle East, NetJets Asia. They also want to see FSI books, since they are a BH company. We want to know the financial relationship between NJA and Marquis. Without ALL of this information it is impossible to discern the TRUE flow of money. And the company will not provide this information. Why? Because they know that it will show that NetJets, Inc. is very profitable and in a huge growth phase all over the world.

Let's give you a perfect scenario.. This is actually happening ALL THE TIME.
An NJA jet pulls up to the NJM hangar at HPN. The CPt asks for 2 qts of oil. The charge??? $97... For TWO quarts of oil??? To the SAME company???

There are numerous examples of this kind of money movement. Why? Because NJA is the only NetJets, Inc company that in unionized. So it is better for NJA to show a loss.... for bargaining purposes.

Also, NJA has been supporting NJE for years. NJA talked about a "modest" profit. Yet what they fail to tell you is that all of the losses of NJE were supported by NJA. Management has been using NJE as an excuse for our low wages for 3 years.... what next??? NJ China???

If you aren't smart enough to see what's going on in this regard, then you should take some business classes.

When determing the proper pay raise for crews, the union doesn't need to see any financials from EJM, NJI, NJE, or Flight Safety any more than they need to see Dairy Queen's. You pay raise will be determined by NJA's generated income and revenue, not other BH companies.

The company has fully disclosed from the beginning that they have supported NJE from NJA profits pre-BH. The union doesn't need to see NJE financials to see that. This would be fully reflected in all NJA's financial documents and balance sheet refuting your opinion that they will not show the "true flow of money". NJE's inflow of cash from NJA on their books will be the same as the outflow of cash on NJA's books.

Not sure why the union can't figure that out. Perhaps they are trying to make the point that the subsidizing of NJE and the profitability of Flight Safety should lead to increase in NJA pilot salaries. And they can make that argument. But with little success now that they all belong to BH as seperate entities. BH subsidizes NJE now, not NJA. BH owns Flight Safety now so a profit from them doesn't necessitate a influx of cash for NJA any more than a profit from Dairy Queen or Geico. I'm of the opinion that the union has only hurt their case to the NMB by refusing a third party financial disclosure. Perhaps this is why they are where they are in the negotiating process.

 

[hydrarkt]

Right now you are being hazed into the fraternity- You are in hell week-I am not anti union, I am just saying keep your eyes open.

Our eyes ARE open. That's why we got rid of the former MEC and the last local. We kicked those guys to the curb BECAUSE their agenda did not benefit the pilot group. The new local, 1108, is ALL about us. Of course Teamsters International has an agenda. We know that. However, currently it does NOT conflict with the desires of this pilot group. And believe me, we're watching.

 

[Some Dude]

Dispatch Dork if you were really a casino puke you would be worried about all the money flowing from NJA to all the other companies. It affects your pay as a cmh employee. No money left at NJA then no money for raises for cmh employees. Are you that stupid not to realize that?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Dispatch Dork if you were really a casino puke you would be worried about all the money flowing from NJA to all the other companies. It affects your pay as a cmh employee. No money left at NJA then no money for raises for cmh employees. Are you that stupid not to realize that?

LOL...you dont even understand the structure of the company you claim to work for.....

All of us in the 'casino' are part of netjets services....not NJA.

now who's stupid?

 

[dsptchrnja]

Dispatch Dork if you were really a casino puke you would be worried about all the money flowing from NJA to all the other companies. It affects your pay as a cmh employee. No money left at NJA then no money for raises for cmh employees. Are you that stupid not to realize that?

No, not worried in the least.

Here's why. People like RTS are infinately more concerned about the welfare of this company than you and me combined and any risk they take is calculated - but more to the point - it's his perogative to do so.

That's what gets me about people with similiar perceptions. You haven't learned the first thing about economics 101 - employees exist to serve the companies needs, not the other way around. Companies don't exist to serve employees, they exist to make a profit - and when they make a profit they have the right as the risk-taker to spend the money on whatever they want. If that means starting another company - who are you to say to the one who gave you a job he can't do so? Only someone with a high degree of arrogance would do so.

Now in the case of the pilots they are bargaining employees which entitles them to do exactly that. So any arguments you wish to make should be about trying to prove whether or not you're making fair pay due to the direct result of money that would have otherwise been given to raises but was instead given to other ventures. But no one has even come to making that point because the company has bargained in good faith and offered a 23%-40% increase, WITH BENNIES, based on NJA financials ALONE. Rightly so. If the company does not bargain in good faith you have the union to plead your case to the NMB. Rightly so. So far the NMB hasn't shown any sign of seeing it your way.

Your responsibility, it seems, is to work for the wages you agreed to work for and if you personally determine the pay is sub-standard and not worth the work you are willing to put in, then God bless the USA, you have every right to look for another job. No questions asked.

 

[hydrarkt]

What you 2 clowns don't want to post is that the reason NJA management tells the pilots that they can't give us the appropriate pay for the job that we do is that NJA "doesn't have the money!!" They say that they can't afford to pay it because "profits are slim." Well, of course they are... when NJA, a unionized company, continues to fund all of the other non union entities AND continues to piss money away on terrible scheduling practices that we see EVERY day.
Management wants NJA to show a loss so that they don't have to pay us. It's simple... by seeing ALL of the NetJets, Inc. books, we can determine EXACTLY how profitable they are. The union isn't the one claiming poor financials, the company is. We say PROVE IT!!! If it's true then there is nothing to hide. It seems that there must be something to hide, otherwise they would open ALL of their books.

 

[dsptchrnja]

What you 2 clowns don't want to post is that the reason NJA management tells the pilots that they can't give us the appropriate pay for the job that we do is that NJA "doesn't have the money!!" They say that they can't afford to pay it because "profits are slim." Well, of course they are... when NJA, a unionized company, continues to fund all of the other non union entities AND continues to piss money away on terrible scheduling practices that we see EVERY day.
Management wants NJA to show a loss so that they don't have to pay us. It's simple... by seeing ALL of the NetJets, Inc. books, we can determine EXACTLY how profitable they are. The union isn't the one claiming poor financials, the company is.

So that's your whole deal? You belive the company is vastley more profitable than they say they are? So if the company proves what they've been saying all along you'll glady take the raise they are offering based on those financials? If that's the case then great, no one has anything to worry about.

 

[Diesel]

Who gives a SH1t if the company is profitable or not.

The pilots cost X amount of dollars. That's the cost of doing business. We want our X amount of dollars. The company can figure out how to pay for it.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Who gives a SH1t if the company is profitable or not.

The pilots cost X amount of dollars. That's the cost of doing business. We want our X amount of dollars. The company can figure out how to pay for it.

Now you sound like Rick Dubinsky.....gonna wring the last golden egg out of the goose...that paid off in the long run...

 

[MalteseX]

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